Bucs poised for disaster

[savebykabi]

I hate admitting it, but at best the Bucs might get into but no further than the 1st round of the playoffs, and at worst be god awful. It all depends on our offensive line. If they are good we are decent. I do see hope for the future. Michael Clayton. Ian Gold, Jermane Phillips, Dwight Smith, and Mark Jones (as a returner) are all young and look good. We shall see.:uhoh:

[Anthony]

The Buccaneers should be fine this year. They hold a huge class edge over the rest of their division, and they will be far more focused this year with both Meshawn and Big Mouth Sapp gone.

However, I doubt if they can get past either T.O. and the Eagles or the Rams in the playoffs.

[Dublin Mike]

Originally posted by Anthony
The Buccaneers should be fine this year. They hold a huge class edge over the rest of their division, and they will be far more focused this year with both Meshawn and Big Mouth Sapp gone.

However, I doubt if they can get past either T.O. and the Eagles or the Rams in the playoffs.

Anthony can we go 1 thread w/out you pimping "T.O. and the Eagles"? :D :P

[doublee]

I am curious about the direction of the Bucs I think they are a bit of a question mark. Gruden would rather run Simms out at QB, but he knows the Bucs probably will not win with him right away and the team has not officially entered a 'rebuilding stage'. Losing Sapp and John Lynch is a definite hit to the leadership of the defense. Derrick Brooks is rumored to be on his way out after this season because of his big contract.

I agree that they could easily win the division or fall flat on their butts. I think the same can be said for every team in that division. They all probably have the talent to win, but they also have recent histories, except the Panthers, of not living up to expectations.

[Dublin Mike]

I think the day the Aints replace Haslett will be the day they become serious contenders for the South. That team has a load of talent, but he seems to hold them back every year.

[doublee]

Well in fairness to Haslett his teams always seem to be fighting injuries to key players. But, I agree that it is probably about time for a change there. It just does not seem to be working with him as the coach.

[MountaineerDave]

Haslett has Bill Cowher Syndrome, to wit: He won the war of wills over GM Randy Mueller with the owner, and has stopped coaching.

Cowher won his war with GM Tom Donahoe, and the Steelers, aside from one good year that Donahoe established before his dismissal, have been a crap team.

The Saints have maybe the worst homefield DISadvantage that will exist in the NFL till a team opens shop in Vegas. N'Awlins being the party place that it is... if a team and its coaches lose focus, well, the only person to blame is the Head Coach.
(And then, when the owner does nothing to fix the matter, the owner.)

Dave

[Marc]

The Bucs are in horrible shape, IMO. Lost Sapp, Keyshawn, Johnson is old, McCardell is holding out and old, Pittman is/was in legal trouble and not that good to begin with -- even guys like Lynch are getting old. This team is really on the downslide.

[MountaineerDave]

Yeah, Lynch is getting old. Which is why they released him and he signed with Denver... :)

Wow, Marc. You're gonna hit 15,000 posts by the end of September. Nifty.

Dave

[Marc]

LOL, that proves my point even more. Not only are the Bucs old, but they don't have any recognizeable players anymore. :) Aside from Brooks, who is still pretty darn good.

15K, huh? I honestly haven't noticed. I lost track after it hit five digits. That's what you get for no extended absenses in four years. Of course, if someone bashes Kentucky or Green Bay, I'll hit 15K a lot sooner... :P

[dirtywhiteboy]

Yo Anthony, "class" edge? Just tell me you're talking about sportsmanship, and on the field behavior. Boy, I needed a serious chuckle today.

[poptart]

The Sucs will be 8-8, give or take a game....or maybe two.....depending on a call or two the zebras do or don't see fit to make.

Toss 'em in with the rest of the mediocre slop the league's socialist agenda has jammed down our throat.

Lap it up, sheep.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by dirtywhiteboy
Yo Anthony, "class" edge? Just tell me you're talking about sportsmanship, and on the field behavior. Boy, I needed a serious chuckle today.


Actually no; by "class" I mean a proven record of consistent success - an area in which Tampa Bay has lopsidedly outperformed the other three teams in the division over the past seven years or so.

In short, the Bucs know how to win - the Saints don't, and you can't say the Falcons or Panthers do either as neither Atlanta nor Carolina have ever finished above .500 two years in a row in franchise history.

[Dublin Mike]

The Foulcons are in deep trouble right now. The west coast offense they will be running this year is very complex to learn, and Vick needs some game experience running the system. He didn't play last night, and in the one pre season game he did play in, he looked sloppy. Meanwhile, rookie Schaub has come in looking like an all pro rookie, mostly because he ran this defense throughout college. And we all know the 4th preseaon game, the starters stay in maybe one series, if at all. It'll be interesting to see if Vick can come out on opening day and run this offense effectively.

[doublee]

I like Schaub a lot. He got to run a pro style offense at UVA under Al Groh and had a great junior season where he won the ACC Player of the Year while completing 68.9% of his passes and throwing 28 TDs against only 7 INTs. He fell off a bit during his Senior season after he hurt his shoulder in summer practice but he still completed 69.7% of his passes. I am still not convinced that Vick has the accuracy to be effective in the West Coast Offense. I wonder how injured Vick really is. He and the team keep claiming it is nothing serious, but he misses this game and came up lame in last week's game.

[dirtywhiteboy]

The Panthers? Hmmmm.....how'd they do last year? Somebody refresh my memory. As far as going back to back .500 + seasons go, Carolina isn't exactly an OLD franchise. They have the tools to get by on offense, and the best front 4 on defense in the league. We'll have to exchange ideas after Carolina and Tampa play. You'll probably need some tissue for that one...

[MountaineerDave]

On Vick:
When does he get traded? And to whom? After this year? Or in 2006?
Either way.... let it noted that folks putting him at the top of QBs in the PQ thread should be shrugging their shoulders at his performance to date, wondering if he should even be AT THE POSITION in the NFL.

(Maybe happier to take shots at this overrated DUN-NUTHIN than the Favre the ALMOST-HAS-BEEN) :)

Dave

[doublee]

The thing about Vick though is he is a lot like McNabb in the respect that he may not put up dazzling numbers at the QB position, but somehow he manages to make plays when the game is on the line. He is the only guy to win a road playoff game in Green Bay and the team was 3-1 when he came back last year.

[MountaineerDave]

Well, I don't usually like to find myself defending Marc's teams, but...

GB was SOOO beaten up with injuries, Miami as in college, could have beaten them. Florida State could have beaten them. They were decimated with injury, and really had no chance of winning that game.

And, if that's going to be the Vick stake to greatness, well... I'll take Matt Schaub for six TDs, please.

Dave

[Dublin Mike]

I gotta admit Dave, it's a thing of beauty watchin Schaub run the offense this preseaon. He has poise and knows how to read the defense. You could make the argument he's been the best rookie QB this preseaon.

[Dublin Mike]

I just reread my last post, and let me make it perfectly clear. There is no QB controversy in Foulcon land. Even though the backup QB has looked one hundred times better running this offense than the starter, and the starter has barely played this preseason, there is no QB controversy, at least until Vick's leg falls off, and Schaub pulls out a miracle seaon taking the Foulcons to the playoffs. Then, and only then, would there be a QB controversy.

[Noon]

If Mike Vick doesn't lead the Falcons to the playoffs this season, and then shows any signs of struggle at the beginning of next season, I guarentee that Atlanta will have a full scale QB battle on its hands. It doesn't matter how many video game covers Vick's been on or how much promise he has, if he doesn't preform well this season and Schuab looks this good in backup/next preseason, expect to hear the word "controversy" a lot when discussing the Falcons.

Potential and "flashes of greatness" can only keep a player alive for so long. The Falcons need results this season or questions are going to start popping up.

Of course, Vick could come out and have a Pro Bowl season, rendering this whole discussion meaningless.

(I think this thread has officially been hijacked)

[MountaineerDave]

Noon,

Agreed on everything EXCEPT for one item. I think the word controversy could creep in sooner than next year IF Vick is pulled for ineffectiveness or a nick/scratch more than one time this year, and his replacement succeeds in pushing the Falcons to victory.

Dave

[doublee]

Yep, all it takes is for the Falcons to struggle early on and Schaub come in off the bench and engineer a victory. Look at what happened to Rodney Peete in Carolina last season. Not to say that it is exactly the same thing, but he sucked it up in the first game and Delhomme came off the bench and lead the Panthers to a huge come from behind win and never looked back. The difference being that Vick will get more of a chance than Peete did, but in the era of win now he won't get too many chances if Schaub continually bails the Falcons out.

[Dublin Mike]

One reason why I don't think there will be controversy, at least not this season. I think the front office as well as coaching staff has decided to stick w/Vick through thick and thin because of money. Vick puts butts in seats. It's that simple. Is there any jersey in the NFL that is hotter than Vick's at the moment? After Vick went down last year, attendance dropped dramatically.

Now Im not one of those people who watch the team to see a player. While the Vick runs area thing of beauty, and he can throw a ball 70 yards while on the run are impressive, I would much rather the team win w/a bland QB than lose w/a flashy one.

That being said, I think Vick should be the starter on opening day, and he will probably struggle his 1st couple of games. I'll give him till at least midway through the seaon before i start calling for his head. :D

But like Noon said, he could throw for 3,000 yards and rush for another 1,000 while guiding the Foulcons to a playoff berth, in which case everything i said above makes me look like a complete idiot.

[MountaineerDave]

Doesn't make me look like a complete idiot, anymore than usual, so I don't think it'd have such an effect on you, Mike.

It would make it look like I didn't give the guy a chance, but, then... that's never happened before.

If he does that... more power to the Falcons. Anything to shut Anthony and his TO-jock carryin'...

Dave

[Dublin Mike]

One other great piece of Foulcon news: DeAngelo Hall, who was pencilled in as the teams #1 CB, is out 6-10 weeks w/a small hip fracture.

[gconnhokiebird]

That sucks b/c he could of been a great punt returner with his cb skills. As for Vick you guys watch him this year, he is going to shine

[savebykabi]

why does every thread turn in to a Michael Vick thread? This happens all the time on the Buccaneers website even.After Michale Vick has a full solid yearI'll know enough about him to really have an opinion. Anyway I really liked how Simms and Clayton looked together on the field in the third game. Makes me more optomistic about the future.

[Kornbix]

Because Mike Vick da man savebykabi. And he is leading the Falcons to the promised land my freinds. i mean the SB championship. He is going to shine this season. Im thinking 15+ passing td's, about 7 running. He's gonna lead us guys I know it.

[Anthony]

How many 41-38 games can one team win in one season? Atlanta's defense is terrible! And Vick is undersized and injury-prone.

Tampa Bay will have the division wrapped up by Thanksgiving.

[savebykabi]

By the way if anyone needs a reason to explain why my Bucs are in this predicament, trading away 4 first round draft picks (2 for Meyshawn and two for Gruden) and at least 2 second round draft picks (2 for Gruden But I think there might be more 2nd rounders traded for something) in the last 8 years, and then with one of our few good picks we take Kenyatta Walkerwho has been a bust. I think the Gruden Picks were worth and hopefully we will have some picks we can work with in the future.

[Anthony]

Predicament? Some predicament - the 2002 Bucs became the first team ever to win the Super Bowl after having not had either a first- or second-round pick in the previous spring's draft. They also were the first Super Bowl champ ever to have lost at home on opening day, and the first ever to have averaged less than 100 yards rushing per game during the regular season.

[savebykabi]

Your missing my point. For better or worse the lack of picks is the main reason we are a team of old veterans. Now I'm willing to endure another bad year in exchange for the superbowl win we had (which is still awesome) so I won't be angry unless we choke at the end of games like we did last year.

[Slinky]

Originally posted by Anthony
How many 41-38 games can one team win in one season? Atlanta's defense is terrible! And Vick is undersized and injury-prone.

Tampa Bay will have the division wrapped up by Thanksgiving.

Vick may be undersized, but the Falcons win with Vick, 3-1 with him and I think 10-6 the year before. Unfortuently for the Bucs, they may end up a lot like the Raiders, old guys who were once great.

[MountaineerDave]

I don't understand how this division goes anywhere but back to Carolina. I really don't.

Vick doesn't understand the offense. And they don't want him to run. The defense still stinks.

Tampa is what Tampa does. They could compete, or they could whimper away like last year. Hard to tell. Anthony recalls the word class, but much of what brought class to Tampa is gone: Dungy, McKay, Sapp, Lynch. They have Brooks and McFarland and no secondary to speak of. On offense, they have one wide receiver, but he's a whole mid-season away from breaking out, if it happens this year.

New Orleans persists in its wierd state of constant injury and underacheivement. Having seen Haslett on NFL Total Access the other day (have I noted yet that I love NFL Network), I blame him. He just seems like a guy who's collecting his paycheck, doing the bare minimum, and just getting away with it. Sort of like me, in a way, I guess. Only his check is MUCH bigger than mine.

So, defense wins titles, right? Carolina's D will make this division weep well into December and January.

Dave

[savebykabi]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Tampa is what Tampa does. They could compete, or they could whimper away like last year. Hard to tell. Anthony recalls the word class, but much of what brought class to Tampa is gone: Dungy, McKay, Sapp, Lynch. They have Brooks and McFarland and no secondary to speak of. On offense, they have one wide receiver, but he's a whole mid-season away from breaking out, if it happens this year.


Dave
I have to disagree on a few things here. First off Sapp never was and never will be classy. He's not horrible either but class...no. I also think you are grossly underestimating our secondary, which is actually one of the best in the league when healthy (this year our depth is way better bty). Barber is one of the top five corners (he never gets enough dap), I'm not so big on Kelly, we have a starter as our nickel, and our safties will be awesome. Dwight Smith will be a name to look out for in the future. I do agree that Lynch epitomised class, and both Dungy and McKay are good at what they do, and that Clayton needs time to develope into the great reciever (I hope) he will become. One more thing, Simms looks extremely promising.

[MountaineerDave]

kabi- Just as Anthony had earlier, I refer to class as defining the playing goodness of the team and its components. Not to whether the folks I mentioned were good people on or off the field, but better than others in the league at those positions. We don't know much about Simms' football playing class, and probably won't unless the season goes the way I feel it will in Tampa. I REALLY don't like that team, and it's gone beyond my dislike for Gruden and Sapp now. I just don't see how they're supposed to win.

As for the secondary... aside from Barber, who's aging, there's no one of note. Smith's breakout year was supposed to have come last year... Kelly's okay, but... face it, this secondary NEEDS pressure on the QB. Without that, they're any other secondary. If Rice repeats his subpar season and McFarland can't be Sapp, well, then...

In that light, for several years, Sapp was THE CLASS of defensive linemen, though it's no longer clear that he is anymore. Won't be fair, though, putting him next to Ted Washington, who is a class player and pretty decent guy off the field, to boot.

Dave

[Anthony]

Interestingly, the Panthers have taken a ton of money in Nevada and will enter the regular season as the favorite to win the NFC South. Carolina closed at 17-1 to win the Super Bowl in the Sports Book Consensus Line, with Tampa Bay at 20-1 and Atlanta and New Orleans both at 30-1 (guess the high rollers didn't like what they saw of the Falcons during the preseason).

[MountaineerDave]

Anthony, what's Vegas say on this division's games won over/under?

I confess to complete ignorance (though I think NE has a 10 1/2 g o/u) on where to even go to get this information... and while I'm not a better person necessarily because of it, I'm kinda glad I don't know... :)

Dave

[savebykabi]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave

As for the secondary... aside from Barber, who's aging, there's no one of note. Smith's breakout year was supposed to have come last year... Kelly's okay, but... face it, this secondary NEEDS pressure on the QB. Without that, they're any other secondary. If Rice repeats his subpar season and McFarland can't be Sapp, well, then...

In that light, for several years, Sapp was THE CLASS of defensive linemen, though it's no longer clear that he is anymore. Won't be fair, though, putting him next to Ted Washington, who is a class player and pretty decent guy off the field, to boot.

Dave

Sapp was good, great actually, and being next to big Ted will make most linemen look good. I just misinterpereted your defenition of class, and I am not sold on Booger either (I was hoping they would go after Robaire Smith). I agree with your assessment on Kelly. Barber is getting older but he hasn't really shown any sign of slowing down and there are a lot of good CB's that have played to old age. In addition Smith did played really well but he got moved around all of last year. He had to play both CB and safety in dfferent parts of the year. Also he can hit. Hard. A good example was from the giants game last year against Toomer in the endzone. Also the guy replacing Lynch this year is faster, though not as good a tackler (remember Lynch was no high draft pick so and anyone can become good).

[Dublin Mike]

Is Oaktown still planning on running the 3-4 D with Sapp and Washington trading in and out? If so, that's stupid as hell. Put em both in at the same time and clog the middle.

[doublee]

I heard they were planning at using Sapp as a DE in the 3-4.

[MountaineerDave]

Thought I'd echo doublee here: espn.com had a story in the last couple weeks noting that Sapp would be likely to play some End. If he can still motor, that'll be a fine place for him. If he's just a dead weight, it won't help Oakland at all, though. Sapp's never been especially useful against the run...

Dave

[Anthony]

Still think da Raiduz are overrated this year no matter what position Sapp winds up playing the most.

[savebykabi]

Well they lost to the redskins. Not Suprising. A few things looked good. special teams and defense. Besides that one long run our D wasn't bad besides getting no sacks or int's. Ian Gold looked good especially. On offense we looked horrible. O-line was autrocious. In his first game with us Derrick Deese's no sack record ended. Only two things looked good when we had the ball. Michael Clayton and Mike Alstott. Hopefully the O-line can improve or this year is gonna be bad.:uhoh:

[doublee]

The Bucs did not look good at all out there. The Defensive play was rather sloppy in the first half, but I liked how they recovered in the second and showed some life. If Gruden does not figure out something with the offensive line then he may as well move Garner to reciever because he is useless as a back if nobody is going to open any holes for him. I thought the Bucs were lucky that they only lost the game by six points.

[savebykabi]

In addition there's more good news. Turns out Galloway should be out most of the year with an injury. I just hope they don't call up Keenan. Even if they go 0-16 DON'T CALL HIM!

[MountaineerDave]

Washington clearly missed an opportunity to trash Tampa, and would have if Tampa played that poorly in the first half of a midseason game. Brunell was NOT sharp, but Portis, even without the long run, averaged almost 5 ypc. Tampa's run D was poor.

I tried to find something hopeful for the Bucs. I didn't come away with much.

Simms may be starting earlier than anyone guessed.

Dave

[doublee]

Well, you know Gruden is just frothing at the mouth for an excuse to bench Johnson. He is tried everything short of bringing Doug Williams out of retirement to play QB in Tampa. I thought the Wyms kid made a couple of nice plays out there. If Brunell takes too many more shots like the ones Wyms unloaded on him he may not be in there too much longer.

Actually, Portis averged 5.1 for the game and if you take away the 64 yarder he only averaged 3 yards per carry. Tampa did a fairly decent job of containing him after he broke that long run.

[savebykabi]

Well another loss for the Bucs. 0-2 for the first time since 1998. Oh well. Sims didn't look that bad actually. Got nervous at the end of the game.

[Habs Fan]

I think that Sims did a better job of moving the ball than Johnson did. Maybe it might be Sims starting next week or the week after if this keeps up.

[doublee]

I think Johson still gets the call against Oakland next week just because it is the ESPN game next week and will be on national TV. But, it would not surprise me to see Simms start as it is no real secret that Gruden is just looking for a reason to get Johnson out of there.

[savebykabi]

My power is out so I only saw until 1/2 way through the third quarter but my Bucs look pretty darn bad.

[MountaineerDave]

I missed most of the game, but caught the final Oakland TD and then the fourth quarter...

The Bucs ARE bad. They have nothing going on offense. No receivers (Clayton will one day be good, but he's no Roy Williams), Garner was out with an injury, so no running backs...

That Super Bowl victory had better been worth several years of misery, Bucs fans. That's what the management has fairly firmly cemented.

Dave

[KevinBeane]

Yes, because no team has ever pulled off a fast, rags-to-riches turnaround in the modern day NFL, certainly not the Rams a few years ago, for example.

It all depends on whether or not a)Glazer will spend money, b)take the personnel decisions away from Gruden and/or c) Gruden grows a brain.

[MountaineerDave]

Glazer is spending all the money he can (on personnel). So, that can't fix anything. (Isn't the reason they dumped all their good personnel for inexperience financial? It's not?! You mean Gruden's just an asshole who chases the good players away? Unbelievable!)

And, since Gruden won the Super Bowl, he seems to be making all the personnel decisions, and Glazer is happy with that.

I don't see how they can turn it around next year, honestly. Their defense is not good as good as advertised. Their offense is second in stinkiness only to Arizona. Unless they trade for a wide receiver and a QB and RB and three of five offensive linemen and a second DE and another LB and probably two CBs and at least one safety... yeah, miracles can happen.

Dave

[#99]

As a Raider fan, I've gotta say, I'm loving this.

[KevinBeane]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Glazer is spending all the money he can (on personnel). So, that can't fix anything.

Well you're right, it can't, UNLESS b) or c) happen....Glazer realizes Gruden is an incompetent GM and takes those duties away from him, paving the way for Glazer's money to be spent wisely (assuming he isn't replaced with another idiot, but it'd be hard to find someone making worse personnel dicisions than Gruden).

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Glazer is spending all the money he can (on personnel). So, that can't fix anything. (Isn't the reason they dumped all their good personnel for inexperience financial?
Dave

But they didn't bring in inxperience. I wish they had. Instead, they brought in geriatrics. And the defense is at least decent.

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
I don't see how they can turn it around next year, honestly. .

Dave

Me neither....but again, no one saw the Rams coming 1999 (wasn't it?) either, or the Ravens in 2000. Teams come out of nowhere quite a bit in these days of salary caps and floors.

They're my team. If I can't muster any hope in the foreseen, I gotta have hope (not the same as expectations or faith) in the unforeseen.

[doublee]

This team will be blown up at the end of the season. I heard during a Bucs preseason game was that the reason they brought in all of the vets was because they thought they could make one last run with the core of veterans still on the roster. One thing that has to concern Bucs fans is that they have not had a ton of luck in the draft the past couple of years. Dungy drafted the core of talent that won the Super Bowl, but since Gruden has been there they have not had a lot of luck in the draft.

Props to Chuckie for running plays for Tim Brown so he could get his 100th career TD in Oakland last night. Also, for the Oakland fans for showing some class in giving him the ovation.

[MountaineerDave]

Well, it would be quite impossible to have much luck in the draft when you've given up two years worth of high draft picks and a bunch of others to boot in order to bring in the coach.

When I see the likes of Jamel White, Michael Clayton, Dwight Smith, Charles Lee, Jameel Cook, et al., on the field, KB, I think of inexperience. I realize Smith has had some significant time on the field, but he's still kinda raw.

Their geriatrics aren't contributing anything either, so... it's a double-damned situation that they're in.

Meanwhile, I was under the impression that Glazer might be looking to get out, having won. I know that he's looking to get involved in other sports (having narrowly missed out on the Dodgers and increasing his share of ownership in Manchester United). If he sells the Bucs, he could buy the Devil Rays for almost nothing, and try to build that ballclub up. But, he can't buy them till he no longer owns the Bucs, so...

Dave

[savebykabi]

Originally posted by doublee
This team will be blown up at the end of the season. I heard during a Bucs preseason game was that the reason they brought in all of the vets was because they thought they could make one last run with the core of veterans still on the roster. One thing that has to concern Bucs fans is that they have not had a ton of luck in the draft the past couple of years. Dungy drafted the core of talent that won the Super Bowl, but since Gruden has been there they have not had a lot of luck in the draft.

Props to Chuckie for running plays for Tim Brown so he could get his 100th career TD in Oakland last night. Also, for the Oakland fans for showing some class in giving him the ovation. Dungy wasn't even coach when Lynch, Sapp, Brooks, or Alstott were brought in. He had horrible drafts when he didn't trade away picks for overrated players (Kenyatta, and Keyshawn). Gruden is in a bad spot so hopefully he can turn it around in four years since that's probably the earliest.

[savebykabi]

*GROAN* Words fail to explain how much this sucks right now.

[Dublin Mike]

Things don't get any better for the Bucs. They play @ the Saints in a division game next week.

[doublee]

The way the Saints played today that could be a winnable game for the Bucs.

[Dublin Mike]

Yeah, that's the biggest problem w/the Saints (besides Haslett) They are so inconsistant. How can you get beat down by the Cardinals, while allowing 100 year old Smith to rush for 100+ yards?

[savebykabi]

The Saints usually play the Bucs tough. We've beat them once under Gruden's stint. Whatever, I've had to live with the Bucs being worse than this. Wasn't around for 0-26 but some tough seasons none the less.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by savebykabi
The Saints usually play the Bucs tough. We've beat them once under Gruden's stint. Whatever, I've had to live with the Bucs being worse than this. Wasn't around for 0-26 but some tough seasons none the less.


Now Gruden is seriously considering having Chris Simms make his NFL debut as a starter in the New Orleans game.

He can't be serious. On the road, against a division rival, and indoors with all that crowd noise?

If Gruden goes this route, the season is over - no team has ever made the playoffs after starting out 0-5.

Then it's off to St. Louis next week on Monday night; if the Bucs lose that one as well they'll be 0-6, and no team starting 0-6 has ever finished better than 6-10, and all but two of them (since 1978) have gone 4-12 or worse.

[MountaineerDave]

I heard on the radio today that the decision's been made: Sims will start on Sunday.

Dave

[Panthers-Rule]

The Bucs lost a ton in thje offseason and startng Sims won't help at all. The Saints are a very good team and this is not the 2002-2003 Bucs.

[MountaineerDave]

The Saints might be a very good team this week, but you can rest assured they'll stink up the joint in the following game.

Does anyone else think things might improve in the Big Easy if a certain coaching staff took a long walk off a short pier and the players coached themselves?

If nothing else, they'd be consistently bad, instead of this on-again/off-again bullcrap that they pull.

Dave

[savebykabi]

The season is lost so why not start Simms and let him take his lumps. Then there is the draft to look foreward to.

[MountaineerDave]

The first in a while that the Bucs have had a first round pick, right?

Dave

[doublee]

I don't know how much creedence to give it, but there is now a rumor circulating that the Ravens are interested in acquiring Brad Johnson to backup Boller.

[MountaineerDave]

I would hope that they give Kordell an opportunity first.

But, it does appear that Boller needs more time learning. And he may be the bust that Anthony proclaimed him to be after all. (Ouch. That hurt. I hate saying Anthony's right about much... :) )

Dave

[savebykabi]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
The first in a while that the Bucs have had a first round pick, right?
Dave They drafted Michael Clayton in the first round last year, and he's been the second most productive rookie WR this year (behind Roy Williams obviously).

[doublee]

Dave, I suspect they want Johnson to help teach Boller the offense more than anything else. He did, after all, play under Billick in Minnesota for a few years so he knows the system. Even then I would still take Johnson over Kordell.

But, I am not ready to write Boller off completely just yet. The league is full of plenty of guys who did not get it their first couple of seasons. I think it is Madden who says you need to give a QB five seasons before completely writing him off. He has always said in his experience that it is right around the fifth year that it sinks in for most guys and everything starts to really click for them.

[doublee]

Wow, look at the Bucs nice win in New Orleans today and Johnson is going to ask to be traded or released.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1898824

[MountaineerDave]

I suggest that one Mr Haslett be replaced immediately.

At least Erickson's got the excuse of having a terrible organization with no talent.
Haslett's excuse is... having a decent organization with good talent and poor coaching.

Unbelievable. Truly.

Dave

[doublee]

Typical Saints they will probably come back and knock the crap out of the Vikings next week.

[Bran]

How about Brian Griese? 16 for 19, 194 yds, 1 TD.

Not bad for a guy who didn't expect to play at all.

[MountaineerDave]

Yeah, but he'll toss a pretty 17-35 for 108 yards and 3 INTs next week. :)

Dave

[doublee]

I don't know they play the Rams next week who have not been stopping too many folks this year. How long is Simms out for? I saw he got hurt but did not hear how serious it was.

[savebykabi]

ugh another game they should have won.

[Anthony]

If the Bucs can't beat Jonathan Quinn at home, the fans can start wearing '70s costumes to the rest of their home games, so as to really get in the spirit of things.:)