Cleveland @ Dallas

[digital7]

Have you seen an uglier second half than that?

Jeff Garcia was disasterous and Testaverde was as well. The Browns offense never got off and Garcia was to blame (well partially cuz the OL was a mess)

[Habs Fan]

Well at least Dallas' D didn't screw up their opportunities. It was great to see them finally make the plays they were supposed to make.

[doublee]

I wouldn't blame Garcia so much as the Browns recievers. Garcia was throwing some bad passes, but two of those picks were not his fault. On one of them Morgan let himself get beat to the ball by Newman and the other one the ball bounced right off of Jackson's hands into Pete Hunter's.

But, so far I am not impressed with the Cowboys this year. Vinny was chucking the ball all over the field in the second half. They could not get any kind of a running game going due largely in part to all of the penalties. It seemed like every other rushing play by the Cowboys was called back due to penalty. Dallas was lucky to escape with the win today.

The Cowboys have a lot of work to do if they want to me more than a one-and-done Wild Card team.

[gconnhokiebird]

a crappy game indeed. I think Eddie George is playing like crap and Julius Jones hasn't been great either. from what i've seen in 2 games the explosive Vishard Lee should be the starter

[doublee]

Eddie is a couple of seasons past his prime which is why I could not figure out why Dallas fans were so geeked to get him. Parcells was not that interested in getting him in the first place because he knows the guy is not a number one back any more. He averaged 3.4 yards per carry today which is about what he has averaged the past few season with the Titans. Eddie is still good if you need a guy to get you the tough yards up the gut, but he has never really been a get down the field game breaker type of back like a Faulk or Tomlinson in the first place.

It is not entirely Eddie's fault, Dallas needs to cut down on the holding penalties. I seem to remember him having a couple of decent runs called back due to holding penalties.

[gconnhokiebird]

and thats why they were good runs

[Anthony]

As ugly as Garcia played (zero passer rating, in fact), the Browns still should have covered the spread - because the spread should have been about 9 points based on where both teams finished last season.

That's what made Dallas the best bet of the week.

[MountaineerDave]

Anthony, you keep bringing up irrelevant things.... like last year.

Last year means nothing this year. The point spread should have been around where it was based on last week's performances by both teams. But, we know that last week's showings are largely irrelevant also, in this league.

It amazes me these days that point spreads in the NFL EVER get over seven. Which is why I'll always take the underdog in such a spread.

Dave

[Anthony]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
Anthony, you keep bringing up irrelevant things.... like last year.

Last year means nothing this year. The point spread should have been around where it was based on last week's performances by both teams. But, we know that last week's showings are largely irrelevant also, in this league.

It amazes me these days that point spreads in the NFL EVER get over seven. Which is why I'll always take the underdog in such a spread.

Dave


Based on your logic, the Lions should be favored over the Eagles this coming Sunday - after all, both teams are 2-0 and the game's in Detroit ...

[MountaineerDave]

No, you goof.

How do you come up with based on my logic? You're just being.... aggravating.

The point spread will be based on talent-level and THIS YEAR'S PERFORMANCES TO DATE. That's what makes the early point spreads so unreliable. (Which is my excuse for getting drilled in week two when I'd be so nearly great in week one.)

Dave

[Anthony]

Originally posted by MountaineerDave
No, you goof.

How do you come up with based on my logic? You're just being.... aggravating.

The point spread will be based on talent-level and THIS YEAR'S PERFORMANCES TO DATE. That's what makes the early point spreads so unreliable. (Which is my excuse for getting drilled in week two when I'd be so nearly great in week one.)

Dave


And how do you determine "talent level?" By proven ability, shown in previous years, especially the most recent ones (all right, there are some anomalies, like Atlanta because Vick was hurt, the Jets because Pennington was hurt, etc.).

[MountaineerDave]

But you give too much weight to previous years. Especially in the era of mad free agency turnover. We know nothing going into the season about how Detroit's O line would fare (they're doing quite well, thank you) and I'm not the only person who questioned the Eagles secondary(also doing pretty damn good, you're welcome).

My logic, whatever that is, would suggest a spread in the five-seven point range for Philly @ Detroit. (I have no idea what the spread is, haven't checked, usually don't.) Philly is the better team. With the better coaching. Especially defensively. Still, I'll take Detroit at home for a spread larger than seven (which any bettor knows is like a nine-to-ten point spread at home).

What history does tell us are these wierd things that only bettors know: Philly is 0-9 ATS OTR when coming off a Monday night win over an undefeated team and the opponent is also undefeated. (I'm making it up, you know the drill, though). Things that don't really mean anything, but are worth noting if you've got money on someone.

Dave

[Anthony]

The line is actually only 4, which seems sensible enough, to me anyway, since that means it would have been 10 if the game was in Philly, because the home field is three points in either direction (sometimes less if the two teams' home playing conditions are identical - both teams play their home games in domes, both play on grass, etc.).

But how is Dallas dramatically worse off than they were last year? The three main roster changes are Testaverde at QB instead of Carter (who is now with the Jets, so they "traded" in effect), Meshawn at WR instead of Joey Galloway, and has-been Eddie George at RB instead of Troy Hambrick. Taken together, those three changes might make Dallas a half-point to one point "weaker" (mainly because George has more "name recognition" than Hambrick had), but certainly no more than that.

[gconnhokiebird]

for the short time i have been on this site i have realized that it is extremly hard to beat Dave in a heated conversation.

[MountaineerDave]

Ah, you've left out the most important (and likely biggest problem the Cowboys will have to overcome all season long) personnel move: Pete Hunter at a starting CB position. Take into account that Darren Woodson is also out with an injury, and the secondary, amazing at times last year, is running at little better than half-strength. Also take into account that it was Hunter who was victimized time and again by the Vikes, and you understand Vegas being squeamish about anything greater than... whatever the spread had been for Dallas/Cleveland.

Meanwhile, I'm a little surprised by the four point spread in Philly-Detroit. I know that's same as a seven -ten point spread at the Linc, but still...

The Lions only have Roy Williams. And once that Eagles blitz starts up, Harrington is toast, and is good for at least one INT, possibly a PickSix.

That's just me, though. I could be terribly wrong about that. Which wouldn't be unusual.

Dave