Best season ever for a pitcher?

[Mclaren208]

I know I'm making a ton of threads (lol) but here it goes:

My pick? Pedro in '00. He was amazing.

[Wuertzhomie]

I'm not gonna argue there, but there are several other great years that deserve recognition. First, Bob Gibson's 1968 season. Though that was the biggest pitchers era ever, he still dominated like no other that year. Maddux also was amazing in '95 and '96. I'm too lazy to look up which, but I think Walter Johnson's best years were 1913 and 1918. Sorry if I'm wrong there. At his best, Walter Johnson was amazing. And just for the hell of it, I'm gonna say Satchel Paige's whole Negro League career was amazing.

[Mclaren208]

And just for the hell of it, I'm gonna say Satchel Paige's whole Negro League career was amazing. [/B]

They don't keep the stats for those anymore, do they :(

[catman]

First off, I welcome Mclaren to the boards. A fresh point of view is always good.
I have to agree that Gibson's season was amazing. A 1.12 ERA with 13 shutouts and 28 complete games in 34 starts was incredible. 22-9 record to boot. Had he been healthy the whole season (he missed 4 starts) and he could have had 300 Ks as well (he finished with 268).
Walter Johnson's career was filled with great seasons, as was Sandy Koufax's (the last 6 were the best I ever saw).
You could make an argument for Denny McLain's 1968 (31-6/336 IP/280 Ks/1.96) as well.

[Mclaren208]

Thanks for welcoming me :)

Many people can be fooled by Gibson's year in '68. Sure, he had an INCREDIBLE 1.12 ERA, but was it really good? 5 pitchers had an ERA under 2. League ERA was 2.90 :eek:

Now, Pedro is my vote, since he had a 1.72 ERA when league ERA was at 4.97!!!!!!! Keep in mind he pitched in the AL, too, where he had to face an extra batter. His season was incredible.

[catman]

How about Johan Santana's 2004 season? He was 13-0 after the All-Star break (1.31 ERA) and was the pitcher of the month in July, August and September. 20-6 with an ERA of 2.61 -- leading the league in Ks. Not a bad season. The only thing Pedro has on him is longevity and continuity of quality.
Seriously, no one could beat the season Gibson had in '68. He was unbelievable (I saw him many times on TV).

[FMHornet]

Guidry 77

[Mclaren208]

Originally posted by catman
How about Johan Santana's 2004 season? He was 13-0 after the All-Star break (1.31 ERA) and was the pitcher of the month in July, August and September. 20-6 with an ERA of 2.61 -- leading the league in Ks. Not a bad season. The only thing Pedro has on him is longevity and continuity of quality.
Seriously, no one could beat the season Gibson had in '68. He was unbelievable (I saw him many times on TV).

Johan Santana? Sure, he was good after the all-star break, but his full season can't be considered one of the best... if he kept it up all season, it would probably be the best ever.

[d_train_05]

give dontrelle willis some respect he leads the national league with 12 wins and is tied for the whole mlb with pitcher jon garland. he is 2nd in the nl with a ERA of 2.04. he is 12-3 with 4 CG and 3 shutouts. can u get better then that

[Mclaren208]

That's not the best season ever. Geez...

[SPORTS FAN 72]

The Guidry year stands out for me. Great one!!!

[Mclaren208]

Walter Johnson was amazing in 1913. Wooooooo-weeeee!!!

[SPORTS FAN 72]

Doc Gooden in 86 was a pretty great year to go along with a World Championship. I enjoyed his season of greatness.

[acesh1gh]

I CAN'T BELIEVE that in the ENTIRE history of baseball, ANYBODY would consider Pedro Martinez's 2000 season the best year ever pitched. Or Johan Santana. Or Dontrelle Willis.

What about the pitchers before!!?! Walter Johnson, "The big six" Christy Mathewson, Bob gibson, Guidry in 78 absolutely. Thank God some people were able to bring these pitchers and their years into this.

[acesh1gh]

BY THE WAY, look at some of Christy Mathewson's numbers before you defend Martinez...

1905 with the NY Giants
31-9 with a 1.28 ERA
37 Complete Games with 8 shutouts
206 Strikeouts

1908 with the NY Giants
37-11 with a 1.43 ERA
34 complete Games with 11 shutouts
259 Strikeouts

I mean just look at this guy's stats. I understand pitchers were suppossed to go longer back then, but DAMN!

And do I agree Gibson has the best season ever in 1968? Absolutely. But I'm just showing some other options here...

[catman]

Nice to see you here, acesh1gh. I appreciate someone who looks at the classic baseball stats and is not tied to the current ones.
Christy Matthewson was a dominating pitcher during his play.
I would also like to submit Jack Chesbro's 1904 season. He was 41-12 in 55 games. He had 48 CGs, 6 ShOs, 239 K's and 88 BB's in 454 IP. His ERA was 1.82 and a .208 OBA.
This marks the highest win total in the history of baseball.
By the way, according to the statisticians at Total Baseball, Christy Matthewson's 1905 season was the best.

[Mclaren208]

Originally posted by acesh1gh
I CAN'T BELIEVE that in the ENTIRE history of baseball, ANYBODY would consider Pedro Martinez's 2000 season the best year ever pitched.

It's one of the best. Back then league ERA was usually 2 or in the low 3's, and it wasn't unusual to have a high 1 ERA. That's how you compare pitcher's seasons. With ERA, league ERA, league IP, etc. It's not that unusual to consider Pedro Martinez's 2000 season the best ever. However, it was the most dominant season ever. Like I said, it's not out of this world to consider Pedro's 2000 the best ever.

[JayRedd]

Originally posted by acesh1gh
I CAN'T BELIEVE that in the ENTIRE history of baseball, ANYBODY would consider Pedro Martinez's 2000 season the best year ever pitched.

Is it really that unreasonable to make this argument.
Pedro in 2000 - 217.0 IP, 128H, 42ER, 17HR, 32BB, 284Ks, 1.74ERA, 0.74WHIP, .167BAA

With 128H and 32BB, Pedro averaged 6.64 Baserunners/9 innings during 2000. The 2nd best average that year was Mussina who was over 10 BR/9. By comparison, Bob Gibson allowed 7.68 BR/9 in 1968, which is also great, but there were 8 other pitchers that were within 2 BR/9 of his mark (Seaver allowed 8.8 BR/9). And throughout all of Koufax's best years, he never beat out any other pitcher in this category by more than 1 BR/9. Walter Johnson in 1913 beat the next closest by 2.3 BR/9, and this is the closest anyone's ever come to the 4+BR/9 margin of victory Pedro had over the rest of the league.

Another point.....The numbers posted by Mathewson, Johnson and Chesbro and others pre-1915 are amazing. The win and IP totals are ridiculous and obviously the more recent "greatest ever" type of seasons by the likes of Pedro, Maddux and Doc Gooden can't compare to those. The game is now different.

But in the best seasons listed by Mathewson (1905 - 1.28 ERA or 1909 - 1.14 ERA ), Johnson (1913 - 1.14 ERA) and Chesbro (1904 - 1.82 ERA, 41-12), the home run leaders for MLB had these whopping totals:

1904 - 10 HRs
1905 - 9 HRs
1909 - 9 HRs
1913 - 19 HRs

In 1999, McGwire hit 65, Sosa had 63 and Griffey put up 48. In fact, 13 players hit 40 or more homers and 44 players hit 30 or better. Robin Ventura was one of those with 32 and the immortal Troy O'Leary almost made the cut with 27 blasts of his own.

The point here is that Pedro played in a much more potent offensive era where at least one batter he faced in every start could go yard. And half his starts were in Fenway to boot, which has to be a Top 5 hitters park of all time where many hitters can hit home runs to both fields. (Away from Fenway in 2000, Pedro was 12-1 and posted a 1.66 ERA, .68 WHIP and .154 BAA.) And he dominated the league to the point that no other pitchers came close. I mean a .167 BAA!?!?! That's insane.

So Pedro's 1999 may not be the absolute best season of any pitcher of all-time, but if it wasn't, than it's damn close.

[Mclaren208]

Great post. Comparing players to their own respective leagues is a great way to judge a player's value.

[white stache]

I,m just tossing this out there. How can Steve Carltons' 1972 season not be mentioned here. On a team that only won 59 games, he won 27 of them. (27-10) . Thirty complete games. ERA of 1.97. Threw 346 innings. Eight shutouts.. 310 Strikeouts on one of the worst teams in baseball history.

[doublee]

He is not there yet, but at the pace he is going Chris Carpenter just may make the list when it is all said and done. He is on one of the great runs a pitcher has had in quite a long time. Since the end of May (last 8 starts):

*7-1 record
*64.2 innings pitched
*5 earned runs for a 0.70 ERA
*3 complete game shutouts including a one-hitter and a 3-hitter
*68 Ks against only 11 BBs
*5 starts where he allowed 0 runs
*1 start where he allowed more than one run
*1 start where he pitched fewer than 8 innings
*.157 BAA
*0.73 WHIP

[JayRedd]

Originally posted by white stache
I,m just tossing this out there. How can Steve Carltons' 1972 season not be mentioned here. On a team that only won 59 games, he won 27 of them. (27-10) . Thirty complete games. ERA of 1.97. Threw 346 innings. Eight shutouts.. 310 Strikeouts on one of the worst teams in baseball history.

Truly amazing to win nearly half your teams games.