MLS to Philly NEXT season?

[HibachiDG]

http://www.nj.com/news/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/news-1/114673777944510.xml&coll=8

Previously they had been talking a soccer only stadium in South Jersey by '09. Which is an idea I hate. But, this article is talking about playing in Philly for two years before that is built and I think if they get into Franklin Field there is only a small chance they actually move to the soccer only field that Rowan University is building. That's just me, though, for some reason a lot of those MLS folks apparently like the idea of the small soccer only stadium.

Anyway, I think it would be a great move for MLS to get into Philadelphia. Then need to get Bobby Convey back from Reading and I'd call success for the franchise in Philly. Convey would be a star in his hometown.

[#99]

I like the idea of a team in Philly. Hope it happens.

Also, for what it's worth, those soccer-specific stadiums are just great! Ever see a game at one? Not a bad seat in the house. Economically speaking, they're much more profitable too. Just saying. I know watching games at Home Depot Center is unquestionably a better experience than feeling lost in what looks to be an empty football stadium like Arrowhead or RFK when in fact there are 20,000 people there.

[IntheNet]

http://www.nj.com/news/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/news-1/114673777944510.xml&coll=8

Previously they had been talking a soccer only stadium in South Jersey by '09. Which is an idea I hate. But, this article is talking about playing in Philly for two years before that is built and I think if they get into Franklin Field there is only a small chance they actually move to the soccer only field that Rowan University is building. That's just me, though, for some reason a lot of those MLS folks apparently like the idea of the small soccer only stadium.

Anyway, I think it would be a great move for MLS to get into Philadelphia. Then need to get Bobby Convey back from Reading and I'd call success for the franchise in Philly. Convey would be a star in his hometown.


Doug: Inasmuch as the idea of a S. Jersey stadium is tantalizing (there is already a Jersey stadium called the Meadowlands!), and a Phily Team to beat is appetizing (Columbus is close enough thank you), I think MLS' first priority has to funnel some money to D.C. United so its #1 Team (5 Stars) can build its own soccer-specific stadium! Currently DCU has to share RFK with the Nationals and the RFK stadium for DCU is literally falling apart! DCU cannot continue to get the shaft as the MLS' winning team yet share its training facilities with a baseball team and rock concerns. RFK field is routinely green-colored mud, almost impossible to maintain, and weekly switching between a soccer pitch and a baseball diamond is hell on the grass! Other MLS teams have soccer-specific stadiums (Home Depot stadium et al.) so I believe that any expansion plans on the part of MLS need to be curtailed until all teams, particularly the best teams, have basic facilities.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/281/soccerball9ik.th.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/my.php?image=soccerball9ik.jpg)

[HibachiDG]

I like the idea of a team in Philly. Hope it happens.

Also, for what it's worth, those soccer-specific stadiums are just great! Ever see a game at one? Not a bad seat in the house. Economically speaking, they're much more profitable too. Just saying. I know watching games at Home Depot Center is unquestionably a better experience than feeling lost in what looks to be an empty football stadium like Arrowhead or RFK when in fact there are 20,000 people there.

I hate the idea of the small 20-30k soccer specific stadiums for MLS.

The problem with soccer specific stadiums is that in ten years the league goal should be to fill 40-60,000 seats in these big cities. I've never sat in the Home Depot Center or the one they have for the Crew, but I can't help but think that if things are successful, that they're going to have to rebuild all of these stadiums. And it's not the stadiums that are keeping people away from the games.

Yes, in the short term MLS saves face because packing one of these 20k stadiums is better than 20k in a 60k football stadium. But, once the level of play heats up, they're going to look ridiculously small time. It's OK to look small time on the stadium issue right now, because the big thing is the level of play on the field. It's not OK to look small time down the road when the game is better.

I just think they're backing themselves into a huge corner with the Soccer Specific Stadiums.

[#99]

I don't know, Doug. I'm a bigger fan of soccer than any other sport, but I think it's unrealstic to think the popularity of soccer in this country will ever approach that of the NFL, where 60k are banging down the door to get into the stadium. Ever. Conversely, basketball and hockey arenas all facilitate roughly 20k or less and there aren't any problems there. I think it's a smart, practical model to follow and lord knows MLS can't afford to lose anymore money. Plus, like IntheNet mentioned, it's a nightmare playing soccer in giant NFL/MLB stadiums if only because the field doesn't look like a soccer pitch and is absolute havoc to maintain. Soccer specific stadiums are a big step towards legitimizing the sport in America.

[HibachiDG]

In terms of the amount of home games, soccer is more like football than NHL or NBA. 20k arenas are fine for NHL and NBA because the higher you go in seats, the more problematic it becomes to watch the game. With soccer, like football or baseball, you don't have that problem.

The bottomline is that if soccer DOES take off, which is the goal, it's going to look small scale in small soccer specific stadiums.

You don't think they'll get to 60k ever? Look at the attendance now, what is it around the league on average? 12k for generally sloppy play, only a handful of worldwide superstars, no legitimate rivalries.

How are you going to get worldwide superstars to want to play in 20k stadiums, man? If all you want out of MLS is some rinky dink league that is always going to be third class, then fine, get substantially stable and do the soccer specific stadiums. If you ever want to be a GOOD league, don't sell the sport short, like they are doing.

Small time image makes a small time league.

[carter08]

We just got an MLS team in Houston, and it has really taken off. Philly would be a good spot for a new one

[#99]

In terms of the amount of home games, soccer is more like football than NHL or NBA. 20k arenas are fine for NHL and NBA because the higher you go in seats, the more problematic it becomes to watch the game. With soccer, like football or baseball, you don't have that problem.

The bottomline is that if soccer DOES take off, which is the goal, it's going to look small scale in small soccer specific stadiums.

You don't think they'll get to 60k ever? Look at the attendance now, what is it around the league on average? 12k for generally sloppy play, only a handful of worldwide superstars, no legitimate rivalries.

How are you going to get worldwide superstars to want to play in 20k stadiums, man? If all you want out of MLS is some rinky dink league that is always going to be third class, then fine, get substantially stable and do the soccer specific stadiums. If you ever want to be a GOOD league, don't sell the sport short, like they are doing.

Small time image makes a small time league.

Look, Doug, normally I'd agree with you, the optimist in me agrees with you wholeheartedly, but the research is out there and has been done. What's the point of building a 60k seat stadium if it's only ever going to be about 1/3 full for the next 20 years? It also doesn't even cost remotely as much to own and operate an MLS team as it does an NHL or NBA team, so the argument that those two leagues are fine with 20k arenas because they have a longer season is kinda bunk

This league isn't going to get superstars in their prime just yet because we need to prove that there is a fervent soccer culture. That's something that Europe has in spades and, I'll tell ya, MLS can hang with the 2nd and 3rd tier Euro leagues (basically everyone other than England, Italy, Spain, Germany, France -- and even some of those teams they can pick off). But until that fandom is cultivated, European stars are likely to stay home where they can be paid hansomely and treated like rockstars. I really, truly, deeply love and respect ESPN for giving the national team even fringe attention and showing weekly MLS games, but soccer in this country is still widely bashed by several media outlets. It's going to take time for those trends to reverse. Loads of time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I'm glad that Houston has embraced the Dynamo so quickly. I just hope their interest sustains longer than Tampa or Miami.

[HibachiDG]

This league isn't going to get superstars in their prime just yet because we need to prove that there is a fervent soccer culture. That's something that Europe has in spades and, I'll tell ya, MLS can hang with the 2nd and 3rd tier Euro leagues

And you expect them to get a fervent soccer culture with a 2nd or 3rd tier Euro caliber league? Sorry, just not going to happen. You don't cultivate fandom in a market where Soccer is the 4th most popular sport, maybe 5th depending on how you rank hockey.

You put a good product out there and force people to either embrace the sport or push it away.

If MLS doesn't have a team that could compete on the level of the teams in the European Champions League within the next 10 years, then they're just not going to do it until/if America gets the depth of soccer played in Europe.

[#99]

And you expect them to get a fervent soccer culture with a 2nd or 3rd tier Euro caliber league?

No. No one expects that. That's the point! Obviously the "it takes time" angle doesn't seem to be working in this thread.

The success and growth of MLS is inextricably tied to the success of the USMNT. If they can consistently impress on the world stage while being lead by MLS-talent like Landon Donovan and Eddie Johnson, that might speed up the process. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait.

[#99]

Sorry, just not going to happen. You don't cultivate fandom in a market where Soccer is the 4th most popular sport, maybe 5th depending on how you rank hockey.


It's just silly to think soccer will ever eclipse football, baseball, and basketball in popularity here in the US, regardless of the quality of play.

[HibachiDG]

I'm hardly suggesting that soccer would eclipse football or baseball..or even basketball. But, there is a large market for soccer that MLS needs to tap in at some point to be successful.

[#99]

True, true.

[HibachiDG]

I guess my big thing is that we've seen Manchester United and other european clubs come to America and play to sell out crowds, sometimes with their reserves on the field. Now, I know that 60k a night might be too much to ask, but in the larger markets, if they played to 25-35k for 12-14 of their 19 (or so, I don't know how many home games a MLS team plays, I'm going off Eng. Pre.), and get sell outs for the big games, I think that would be a great scenario for when/if the league takes off in terms of talent in the league.

I'm really just going off the interest I've seen for when club teams from Europe come and tour here. But I mean, I don't think it's too out of question to view a passionate fan base behind soccer once the public is presented with a quality game.

[#99]

It's all riding on the success of the national team. Hopefully they exceed expectations once again.