FIFA World Cup 2006 (Rd 1)

[Marc]

Our first story looks at the greatness of the World Cup and the U.S.' pathetic interest in it:
Soccer: The Beautiful Game

Most of the world is waiting anxiously for the start of the 2006 FIFA World Cup. The only exception is the United States, who ironically has great players on its 2006 World Cup roster. Unfortunately, America fails to impel the love of the game to the population.
http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/12/soccer_the_beautiful_game.php

Saturday will be our next article, and here is the schedule:

Saturday - May 13 - Idiot's Overall Guide to the World Cup
Sunday - May 14 - Group A Preview
Thursday - May 18 - Group B Preview
Sunday - May 21 - Group C Preview
Thursday - May 25 - Group D Preview
Sunday - May 28 - Group E Preview
Thursday - June 1 - Group F Preview
Sunday - June 4 - Group G Preview
Thursday - June 8 - Group H Preview

Then on Friday, June 9, the first game of the World Cup is played. After that, there will be two columns a week, one would focus on the U.S.,
and the other would focus on everything else.

I'll post links to each in this thread and hope you can check them all out.

Anyone know if it will be in HD? It's on ESPN, right? I am making it a point to watch it this summer.

:cheers:

[KevinBeane]

All 64 games in HDTV and on ESPN or ESPN2.

[HibachiDG]

ABC is going to be covering some as well.

Here is the complete schedule...

http://www.soccertv.com/wc-us.cfm

First ABC games are England v. Paraguay and Sweden v. Trinidad, which should be fun. ABC is going to have some triple headers, as well. I don't think they've done that in the past.

[suedon1970]

I will admit that I don't follow soccer that much (really not at all. I know, shame on me!), but I do plan on watching some games this summer. And I will read some of the articles via Sports Central.....

[Marc]

The Idiot's Guide to the World Cup

In less than a month, the grandest tournament on the planet kicks off — the World Cup. It doesn't receive nearly the attention in America as it does every place else, but if you take a couple of hours away from baseball, you might see what all the excitement is about.
http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/13/the_idiots_guide_to_the_world_cup.php

More to come!

[KevinBeane]

I've actually watched a ton of soccer this weekend, trying to raise my punditry level:

Mexico vs. Venezuela (actually tivo'd from last week). Mexico won 1-0 in a game where the ref made a horrible no-call that should've resulted in a penalty kick for the Mexicans in the first half was made up for by an even-worse phantom makeup call to give the Mexicans a penalty shot, which they converted, in the second half. It was the only goal of the game. The Mexicans played defensively (only one striker) and boringly - no one wanted to get hurt right before the World Cup, but Venezuela, who is in the midst of a horrible slump that cost them a spot in the World Cup, seemed to have more fundamental problems. Several botched cross attempts.

Mexico vs. Congo. That would be the new Congo, nee Zaire, not the other Congo that has been Congo all along.

Mexico once again played 4-5-1 but Congo forced them to open it up a little more. I was rooting for Congo because their star striker, Lomana Lua Lua, plays for my favorite EPL team (Portsmouth), but he is still battling an injury and didn't play. Mexico won 2-1.

I also watched the English FA Cup Final, just a ridiculously exciting game. West Ham, the big underdogs, built an early 2-0 lead which is not often surmounted in soccer, but Liverpool was able to draw even. Then West Ham pushed ahead again, but they weren't able to shut the door as Liverpool equalized again in injury time. Had West Ham held on for just another minute or so, they'd be hoisting the trophy. Had a West Ham shot that went off the post late in extra time made it a little to the right, they'd also be hoisting the trophy. Instead, the game was still tied after 30 extra minutes, and Liverpool won the shootout and the cup.

Finally, I watched a game from La Liga, Espanyol vs. Real Sociedad.

The year before last, I decided to choose a favorite team in all the big European leagues. I picked Portsmouth in the EPL, Wolfsburg in Germany, Siena in Italy, Valenciennes in France and Espanyol in Spain.

Espanyol needed to win the game to avoid relegation. They pushed and pushed and pushed but couldn't find the net. Finally, two and a half minutes of injury time in, a clever pass and a touch goal put Espanyol ahead and by the time the celebration was over, the ref blew the whistle ending the game. The camera panned in on many players and supporters crying tears of joy. An absolute, skin-of-the-teeth eleventh hour goal to avoid relegation.

I mentioned my favorite teams in each big Euro league above because they all but one share an odd coincidence. While Valenciennes will be promoted to French Ligue 1 after a successful Ligue 2 campaign this year, the rest of the teams were already in their country's respected top-flight league...and they all (Portsmouth, Espanyol, Wolfsburg, and Siena) were the last team to avoid relagation. Espanyol and Worlfsburg needed and got positive results on their last game to stay up, and Portsmouth, although they ultimately saved themselves with a game in hand, was further back in the relegation zone than any of them a month ago. Freaky. Alright, I'm done boring you....

[HibachiDG]

Barcelona against Arsenal this Wednesday (2:30pm on one of the ESPNs) in the Champions League final if you want to TIVO a game that should be excellent. Thierry Henry and Ronaldinho going up against each other. Should be good.

[KevinBeane]

The injury time goal Liverpool got to tie the FA CUP was pretty stunning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiPA7IDaKxQ&eurl=

And the video reveals another great thing about soccer: More chances to here Groundskeeper Willyesque Scotsmen commentators talk (he kicks in at about the 30 second mark. "Take a boo, soon.")

EDIT: Also amusing: You know how selfish American athletes are supposed to be? Check out the goal-scorer's twist on the "push out the name on the front of your jersey after you've accomplished something big" habit that basketball players have.

[IntheNet]

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/13/the_idiots_guide_to_the_world_cup.php

More to come!

Thanks Marc! I'll be the one printing up and selling "USA Wins World Cup" shirts to one and all!!!
Go Landon! Go USA!

[#99]

The injury time goal Liverpool got to tie the FA CUP was pretty stunning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiPA7IDaKxQ&eurl=
.

This makes me so happy.

[IntheNet]

Friendly game this evening... road to Germany... USA vs. Morroco...USA looks sluggish... little attack or offense... I am seriously concerned that Coach Arena erred by not selecting Taylor Twellman to help McBride and Donovan...game is 0:0 in 76th minute...boring... even Casey keeper looks hard pressed by Morroco's attack... I think this team is screwed when they face Italy! How do you spell miracle?

[HibachiDG]

How do you spell bail from the bandwagon quickly?

[#99]

Aw crap! I didn't realize that game was on today. Anyway, I'm not sure it's bailing from the bandwagon, so much as being a little realistic. The US is a good team, sure, but they need to be at their best and hope Czech and Italy are a little off when they face them. But I think we've already gone over all of that...

[#99]

Sounds like it was a pathetic (http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060524/1/6vwa.html) performance. Any sort of injury to Reyna could be crushing. He's the stability in our midfield.

[HibachiDG]

Aw crap! I didn't realize that game was on today. Anyway, I'm not sure it's bailing from the bandwagon, so much as being a little realistic. The US is a good team, sure, but they need to be at their best and hope Czech and Italy are a little off when they face them. But I think we've already gone over all of that...

Had it been you, Dave or Kevin saying what InTheNet said, you're right, it would be more of a case of being realistic, under what I've seen from you guys. However, InTheNet and myself have been touting the team a bit higher. Hell, check out his first post in this thread...

Thanks Marc! I'll be the one printing up and selling "USA Wins World Cup" shirts to one and all!!!
Go Landon! Go USA!

Don't worry though, InTheNet, when they get that 2-2 draw to the Czechs and go up 2-0 on Italy late, the USA soccer bandwagon will undoubtedly have room.

[#99]

Had it been you, Dave or Kevin saying what InTheNet said, you're right, it would be more of a case of being realistic, under what I've seen from you guys. However, InTheNet and myself have been touting the team a bit higher. Hell, check out his first post in this thread...



Don't worry though, InTheNet, when they get that 2-2 draw to the Czechs and go up 2-0 on Italy late, the USA soccer bandwagon will undoubtedly have room.

Ah. Gotcha.

[IntheNet]

How do you spell bail from the bandwagon quickly?

I accept the obvious rapidly! Poor performance overall. Fixes? Let's see how Bruce Arena rebounds and team rebounds against Venezuela in friendly match.... THE USE MEN'S SOCCER TEAM STILL HAS MY SUPPORT, but I want to see real offensive improvements in next match... if not... going to Germany is a huge waste of time....

[#99]

I think the big problem regarding attack is that, all things considered, Landon Donovan -- who we need at attacking midfield -- is the best forward on the team. McBride needs help up front and can produce if partnered correctly with someone at forward. Josh Wolff is a playmaker, but has scarcely found the back of the net in recent months and injury-prone Eddie Johnson has yet to recapture the form he had during qualifying. Nevermind Brian Ching being on the squad (and probably never seeing action), the forwards who do play regularly need to find a way to get their mojo running again.

[KevinBeane]

Don't worry though, InTheNet, when they get that 2-2 draw to the Czechs and go up 2-0 on Italy late, the USA soccer bandwagon will undoubtedly have room.

I may not agree but I gotta love the precision of these predictions.

[Pimpbot]

I cannot believe there wasn't room for Freddie Adu in the US squad. I know his first team chances have been limited, but the world cup is famous for making stars of young players. Adu could have been used off the bench in the group games to get experience for 2010 if anything.

[IntheNet]

I cannot believe there wasn't room for Freddie Adu in the US squad...

Pimpbot: I believe Adu was on the Potential Players list, just behind Oscar and Big Bird!

Can you tell us anything that Adu has done recently that would warrant his inclusion? I know his excessive $500,000 MLS salary would be an attractive grab, but beyond that, I see growing talent not there yet with young Adu. Nothing more!

[HibachiDG]

I may not agree but I gotta love the precision of these predictions.

The one game I am unsure about completely is the Ghana match, which I think could go either way. The Italy pick I'm pretty confident in, though.

[#99]

Ghana is definitely a wild card, for sure. The African teams always seem to be the trickiest to handicap. There's always at least one that makes a shocking run and produces some upsets. Could very well be the Black Stars this year.

[MountaineerDave]

I'm curious to know how the US is supposed to score 4 goals in its first three games, nevermind in two of them.

[HibachiDG]

I don't think scoring goals will wind up being their biggest issue. I'm certainly more concerned about their defense than I am their offense. Their offense will be fine. They're especially fine offensively in the midfield. Their defense is the area they don't really know about right now, which is why I think they'll give up 2 goals to the Czechs.

The Italy game, I expect Italy will try to get that first goal and then sit on the lead, like they love to do. I don't think the Italians will come in thinking they're as good as everyone else seems to think they are, which is probably the thing that hurts USA the most. USA is the better team. I just wonder whether the Italians will recognize that, if they do, a draw becomes a better possibility. USA has got to score first in that game, specifically the earlier the better.

And again, I've no clue what could happen in the Ghana game.

[#99]

I don't think the Italians will come in thinking they're as good as everyone else seems to think they are, which is probably the thing that hurts USA the most. USA is the better team. I just wonder whether the Italians will recognize that, if they do, a draw becomes a better possibility.

I don't know where you are, but it isn't Earth. You're dreaming, mate. I think the US can get a draw against Italy, but to say that "USA is the better team" is just nonsense. Also, if their play of late and the makeup of their roster is any indication, the Italians will be more attack-minded than in the past. That spells big trouble for us.

Goal scoring will be a problem at forward, but I think the midfield could supply some production, particularly from Donovan and Beasley.

[Pimpbot]

Doug, that comment could come back to haunt you. lol

[HibachiDG]

I'm pretty sure I once said that Alfonso Soriano is going to be a poor man's Mariano Duncan at one point in my sports analysis life. These Team USA predictions are nothing.

To be honest, I just don't think Italy is all they are cracked up to be by folks. My predictions aren't all that wild other than this one, I mean, I'm calling the Czech game a draw, which isn't spectacularly out there even if most think the Czech's will win. With Ghana, I just don't know.

[Marc]

Group A preview: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/20/world_cup_preview_group_a.php

Group B preview: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/24/world_cup_preview_group_b.php

More to come!

[Marc]

Group C preview: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/05/27/world_cup_preview_group_c.php

[LA sports]

Sorry for my soccer ignorance but where are countries like Cameroon, Ireland, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Russia, Venezuela, Chile, Colombia and several others? I take it they did not qualify for the World Cup or did I miss something? Just curious, and trying to increase my soccer knowledge. My wife coaches middle school girls soccer and plays in an adult league so she is happy with my interest in soccer so all the help and wisdom you guys can give me is appreciated.

[Pimpbot]

They didn't qualify.

[Marc]

Group D preview: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/01/world_cup_preview_group_d.php

Group E preview: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/04/world_cup_preview_group_e.php

[MountaineerDave]

Only One. More. Day.

And I'm without cable (I'm moving) or internet access for the entire first five days.

[Heathen]

C'mon England This is it boys and gurls... stuff the "World Series" which is played in North America only. Same to the NBA "World" Champions... pah!!! This is the WORLD CUP, the top teams IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

Sit back and enjoy the beautiful game played at the highest level. I really hope there are some people here who will watch and enjoy the tourny.

I'm ALWAYS available to talk about it..... just one more thing:

C'MON ENGLAND

[Billy D]

Hey Heathen, Who are you pulling for in the World Cup? It starts this weekend, you know

[LA sports]

I work a swing shift so I should get to watch a lot of morning games here on the west coast. I am not a huge soccer fan but this is one of the best tournaments their is, that is coming from only a little experience on my part though. I look forward to reading more from those soccer experts out there.

Also, Heathen USA!USA!USA!

[Marc]

Group D: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/01/world_cup_preview_group_d.php

Group E: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/04/world_cup_preview_group_e.php

Group F: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/06/world_cup_preview_group_f.php

Group G: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/07/world_cup_preview_group_g.php

Group H: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/06/08/world_cup_preview_group_h.php

There ya go! We've gotten a great response to the preview series and stay tuned for ongoing coverage. In the process, I got a basic education in the teams and key players, so at least I have an idea now.

I caught some action on ESPN2 at noon today, but I turned on ESPN and there's a damn baseball game. What is this crap? I was forced to turn on a Spanish language channel to see action.

[HibachiDG]

I caught some action on ESPN2 at noon today, but I turned on ESPN and there's a damn baseball game. What is this crap? I was forced to turn on a Spanish language channel to see action.

Huh? I think both games today were on ESPN2...(well, I know Germany/Costa Rica was, as my VCR is rockin' it right now and I'm pretty sure Ecuador/Poland is on next). What "action" are you looking for?

[Pimpbot]

I watched some of the Germany vs Costa Rica game with a group of Germans today at work. They were very pleased, but from what I've read, Ecuador could give them a good match after handling Poland.

[Pimpbot]

C'mon England!

6am start tomorrow. Never too early for a frosty one. :D

[KevinBeane]

Lots of thoughts after watching these two games today (not sure what happened with your cable Marc, I sucessfully tivo'd both games via ESPN2, although I know ESPN was showing the CWS super regionals...I think you just had it on the wrong channel. :lol:)

Germany 4, Paolo Wanchope 2. Costa Rica reminds me of the Minnesota Timberwolves, or perhaps the Steve Carlton years of the Philadelphia Phillies: Great, great player on a bad team.

I've seen Dave O'Brien catch some flak here but he looked like frickin' Vin Scully next to Marcelo Balboa today. It's only by accident that Balboa hasn't said something like, "He doesn't want a red card here, 'cause that'd be bad, because then you're playing the rest of the match a man down, and that's bad! You don't want to play the whole match a man down, 'cause you want all your players!" Jesus wept. I think they told him not to get too technical, what with us soccer-ignorant Americans serving as his audience, but he took it way too far. I got dumber listening to him.

But he was right about one thing: Very questionable defensive tactics by Germany today gave Wanchope one sitter, and way too many similar near misses. Individually, I thought Germany played well defensively, not letting Wanchope break off any real solo runs. That game shouldn't have been nearly as close as it was.

If anyone's interested in soccer growing in the US, particularly international soccer, having six goals in the opener helped.

Poland vs. Ecuador was more of a midfield match that would've tested the short-attention spanned (I admit reaching for the x2 FF speed on that game, not just because of the pacing but because of my lack of a rooting interest).

It's well-established how terrible Ecuador is at sea-level, but they had no problems today...but I think that says more about Poland than Ecuador. Not only was Ecuador out of their altitude of comfort, but it was practically a home game for the Poles! They share a long border with Germany! Crikey. I think this means that was a really, really, wretched qualifying group they came out of. England, and nothing.

The Brits serving as the announcers for that game (Adrian Healey and Tommy Smith) were no treats either. Again, I think they were told to keep it simple, and they too made it TOO simple, with Smith adding on a constant layer of unbearable corniness.

So what does this all mean? Yes, they were statistically dominated, and I know Ballack didn't participate, but I think Costa Rica is gonna play the shocker and be the second team out of this group. Think about it: They were playing under some of the most adverse conditions possible, and really, didn't it go as well as it possibly could've gone for them? Two goals in the opener? Against the hosts? The team that's perhaps the second best in the world and defending world runners-up? With a 14 minute window late in the second half where they actually had a chance to tie?

If there is truly such a thing as moral victories, this has to be one for the Ticos. And most importantly, as far as the group stage goes, it's all downhill for them now. The ugly part is over, they acquitted themselves decently in it, and now they just have to get past the team that can't win at low altitudes, and the team that team beat.

[HibachiDG]

England gets a 1-0 win off an own goal by Paraguay. England didn't look so hot the entire match, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were just trying to sit on the lead. Lampard had a couple long shots in the second half that scared the keeper, but overall not a whole lot of pressure. Paraguay playing for a 1-0 loss is a bit ****ing ridiculous. I understand why it makes sense, but it's just annoying to see.

Does England not have enough midfield depth to where they need Beckham to start? He looked lackluster aside from the ball he played in that led to the goal. That could hurt them later on down the line.

[Pimpbot]

Thats funny, because most pundits made Beckham man of the match, although I admit no one really stood out. Gerrard and Lampard never really got into the game and Joe Cole was lively, but could have done more with the ball. The first half England played well, but not great and the second half they just looked intent on sitting on the one goal advantage and were very disappointing imo. Fortunately the Paraguay team looked even worse and shouldn't trouble Sweden for one of the two top spots. I thought the officials were very picky and stopped the flow of the game way too much. Owen going off was hopefully just a precaution and I would hope to see Rooney get some minutes maybe late in the Trinidad game for match fitness.

On the whole, it's 3 points in the bag and a C grade.

[Pimpbot]

Oh and Kevin, if Tommy Smith is the annoying Irish guy? I hope he never calls an England game during this WC as I'll probably have to watch with the sound down.

[HibachiDG]

Thats funny, because most pundits made Beckham man of the match, although I admit no one really stood out.

Most pundits probably made him man of the match for the same reason the ABC guys made him man of the match...he was the guy who sent in an excellent free kick that created the own goal. The rest of the game was otherwise lackluster, like you said, a C grade.

Beckham simply did not make enough chances for the forwards. He looked bad out there, like he didn't even belong.

[HibachiDG]

Trinidad 0 Sweden 0 - That was one fun ass match. Bad red call call on Trinidad, but the move of the match was bringing in Cornell Glen. You figure a man down they're going to go with some defense, right? Forget that, Trinidad came to play. For one, I think it reminded the players that they could compete. Second, the best chance at a goal the game saw was his shot off the post. Sweden had chance after chance, but as the game went along, Trinidad got really good at closing down on them and Hislop played awesome. Damn, that was an entertaining game.

[Pimpbot]

Beckham simply did not make enough chances for the forwards. He looked bad out there, like he didn't even belong.

Beckham I thought played better than Gerrard and Lampard. Beckhams play was being affected by the poor play of both wingbacks, Cole and Neville, who's passing was terrible. I've never been a fan of Gary Nevilles and I am amazed that Sven doesn't have a better option. With Beckham playing most of the game on the flank, he needs better service from these two. Both these two players are the only ones with a less than 6 rating who played the full 90 minutes over at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5058688.stm

Lot of talk about the high temps at todays early games also.

[HibachiDG]

Beckham created no opportunities for them to get goals aside from the early set peice that led to the own goal. To push Beckham's lousy performance off on Cole and Neville is a bit silly. Beckham had the abll outside a lot and failed to do anything with the ball. He just didn't perform. He didn't create chances for the guys up front and that is what he's out there to do. I don't see why English fans feel the need to make excuses for his play...

[Heathen]

Good games today. The Trinidad vs Sweden was a great game. I can't believe that the Swede's couldn't beat a pub team? :P

The Argie's won but Ivory Coast look a bit good don't they? ;)

As for the mighty EN-GER-LAND... not too impressed..... at Eriksson. Why the hell did he take off Owen and replace him with a left winger? Poor Crouch couldn't buy a break from the Mexican ref. Beckham was Beckham, he can't tackle, doesn't run and only has one foot.... but is deadly at set pieces. Not the best performance, but Paraguay are not a bad team and T N T did us a favour by holding Sweden. :)

[Pimpbot]

Beckham created no opportunities for them to get goals aside from the early set peice that led to the own goal. To push Beckham's lousy performance off on Cole and Neville is a bit silly. Beckham had the abll outside a lot and failed to do anything with the ball. He just didn't perform. He didn't create chances for the guys up front and that is what he's out there to do. I don't see why English fans feel the need to make excuses for his play...

I'm not making excuses for him, but you are singling him out, when there are other playmakers on the field who also failed to deliver. I don't think it's silly at all to blame the two wingbacks, but then maybe you don't understand the position? Beckham was essentially playing on the wing, but he isn't a winger, while Lampard and Gerrard were playing central midfield. Thats where the playmaking and crisp passing should start. Beckham isn't going to run at people and go past them like a true wing, he needs Neville to push forward to create space for himself on the flank and during the second half, it appeared that England just went to the long ball game. Heave it up the field and hope someone gets on the end of it. I think Beckham deserves to be in the team, but he isn't the player he was 4 years ago. But if I have a set piece 25 yards out, I know who's boot I want kicking it.

[HibachiDG]

I'm not making excuses for him, but you are singling him out, when there are other playmakers on the field who also failed to deliver. I don't think it's silly at all to blame the two wingbacks, but then maybe you don't understand the position?

Surely! Because I'm an American and you're an Englishman! Yikes...

I don't think Cole or Neville were all that impressive, but I also don't think they took away from Beckham's play to the degree you're making it out to be. Beckham played the sort of game where needed to be singled out. I understand that Beckham is not going to run past people, especially at this point in his career, but there are other things he needs to be doing out there. He can't just float through the game in the hopes of them getting set pieces 25 yards out.

[Pimpbot]

Surely! Because I'm an American and you're an Englishman! Yikes...

Thats not what I was refering to. Have you clicked on the BBC link to see that I'm clearly not the only one who thinks Neville and Cole stunk. 12 hours after the game and the fans still don't think they were worthy of a more than 5.75 rating out of 10.

[HibachiDG]

Got'cha...I think it has more to do with those two looking very lackluster and Beckham providing the ball that led to the goal. I don't dispute that he's very good at those, I just can't help but think they would have been better served today with someone else out there.

[LA sports]

I thought that in the Sweden vs. Trinidad game that Sweden totally outplayed them even before Trinidad went down a man. Only Trinidad's goalie Hislop kept them in it and he was outstanding. I think I saw Sweden's goalie 3 times the whole game. What is really cool about Hislop is that he is their back-up goalie. I would not worry to much though if I was going for Sweden, I thought they actually looked pretty descent IMHO.

That was the only game I caught today, but I am looking forward to Monday for the USA vs. Czech Republic game. I think we should beat Ghana but this game should be pivotal against the Czech's, we need to win this one I think to pretty much secure a trip to the next round because Italy will be a tough one IMO.

[KevinBeane]

Trinidad 0 Sweden 0 - That was one fun ass match. Bad red call call on Trinidad, but the move of the match was bringing in Cornell Glen. You figure a man down they're going to go with some defense, right? Forget that, Trinidad came to play. For one, I think it reminded the players that they could compete. Second, the best chance at a goal the game saw was his shot off the post. Sweden had chance after chance, but as the game went along, Trinidad got really good at closing down on them and Hislop played awesome. Damn, that was an entertaining game.

You said it. By the 70th minute, the only ones not rooting for Trinidad had last names ending in "sson." And folks with money on Sweden.

I was already all too familiar with Hislop as last year he was the #1 keeper for Portsmouth (my favorite EPL team ) before he deservedly lost his job. Didn't know he lead Howard to an NCAA final though. I wish he could've played like that for Pompey, but the World Cup is the World Cup. Sorry Heathen, Pimpbot et al, but I'll be rooting hard for T&T to get another highly improbable result in their next match! :)

Speaking of the instensity of the World Cup...I think it says at all that not only were the Soca Warriors celebrating as if they'd won afterwards, but the Swedish fans were weeping!

Argentina-Ivory Coast was a good one as well - Ivory Coast looked so much more athletic and creative (and won the statistical battle) and Argentina looked like the ultimate tactical masters.

[boston_aloha]

I get off Monday morning at 6am (12EST)... Can't wait for the US to play...

[HibachiDG]

Argentina-Ivory Coast was a good one as well - Ivory Coast looked so much more athletic and creative (and won the statistical battle) and Argentina looked like the ultimate tactical masters.

Yeah, I think that game showed why that is going to be the group of death. Ivory Coast and Argentina both played well. I really like this Argentina team and if they are as good in reality as they are in my head, I want to see them against Brazil some point down the line.

[#99]

Yeah, I think that game showed why that is going to be the group of death. Ivory Coast and Argentina both played well. I really like this Argentina team and if they are as good in reality as they are in my head, I want to see them against Brazil some point down the line.

Agreed. FYI: Brazil and Argentina could only play each other in either the semis or the final. Could very well happen.

Looking forward to the US kicking off tomorrow and hopefully getting a result against the Czechs.

[Marc]

U.S. is down 3-0 to the Czech Republic. Sigh. I was hoping they could play well and I could get behind them, but this is pathetic.

[MountaineerDave]

Okay. So I got to the bar where I watched the match in the 39th minute. Which is approximately the same time of the game in which I woke for US-Portugal.
Slightly different situation I entered to, no doubt.

Questions:
Where the F*?! was Landon Donovan? What an overrated, overhyped.... something or other.
Where did DeMarcus Beasley go? He got touches through 60 minutes, but vanished after.
The US's attack was absolutely abyssmal. And their defense left little to like either.

I didn't see the leadup to Reyna's post-strike, but through the 51 minutes I did see, the US attack was toothless, annoying and just plain pointless.
Eddie Johnson gave them something, but since he was the only one of the eleven guys in US shirts playing, well...
Meanwhile, Reyna not appearing for the Ghana game is suddenly very real. He seems mildly likely to warrant a yellow card v Italy, which will disqualify him for Ghana. He, btw, was terrible, defensively. I don't know if his late challenges were attempts to boost the energy level of the team, or just him being really slow, but he really galled me.

I haven't seen any of the other action, with exception to the last ten minutes of T&T v Sweden (what an amazing result for T&T), but I was shocked to hear Japan gag it up in the last five minutes of regulation to the Aussies.

Go Ghana! We need the help after our being obliterated, outclassed and shown up in our WC opener.

[#99]

I was expecting 2-0 Czechs, but not this bad of a blowout. So, you know, not surprised that the US lost, but man did everyone get brought back to Earth. Now, the US has to win their next two games to assure a place in the next round.** Tall order, especially with the Italians being next. But win both those games and they recover from this nightmare start. That's the only way they can control their destiny. I think a draw with the Italians is possible, but not likely if the performance is anything like today. I think we can finally put this whole "#5 world ranking" nonsense to rest.

** I should note that the only way the US fails to progress even if they win their next two games is if two other teams (Czech and Italy) also finish with a 2-1 record and have a better goal difference.

[HibachiDG]

This is going to be an aggravating 90 minutes of VCR watchin...Hopefully they don't let it get to them too much for the remaining matches.

[HibachiDG]

Just some quick thoughts on the USA game...Keller sending Lewis up field and then aimlessly booting the thing was a bit annoying, which led to the first goal. Just an annoying play by Keller. Czech got better as the game went, which was possibly the most annoying thing. USA didn't play a real good attacking first half, but looked like the could turn it around. Reyna's strike off the post was a really good example of that. Then Rosicky's blast just kind of took any wind they had left.

Eddie Johnson came on in the second half and looked good...really, he should have played up front from the start. He has to for them to have a shot, I think. Get Donovan in the midfield, center. He had more of an impact there.

I know why they play Mastroeni, but I think they need to go with their best players rather than a defensive midfielder just for the sake of having a defensive midfielder.

[KevinBeane]

I'm not holding this result against Donovan, Beasley, or McBride. The Czechs marked them hard, and their strategy seemed to be, "Let's see if Bobby Convey, the finest American in England's Division One, can beat us." It was a good strategy.

Other than that...this is the first time they've had any sort of expectations for success, and I hope that's why they were so toothless, as Dave well put it. They actually did a good job of possessing the ball, but VERY tentative in the Czech end and just not willing to try to take the game by the throat.

[Heathen]

What you guys said.... oh... and the Czech's are pretty damned good too. Actually, I have money on them winning it all. They're my "dark horse"

:)

[Pimpbot]

Looks like the US team will be home before the postcards arrive. ;) They are now 0-8 on European soil in World Cup play.

I know the US team didn't play well today, but I thought Arena threw his players under the bus in the post match news conference. I'm all for lighting a fire under them, but publicly calling them out wouldn't motivate me to play for him.

Another thing. If the US team loses all three group games, do you think that FIFA should do away with the ranking system?

[MountaineerDave]

Well, FIFA is in to change the rankings system, next ones due out after the WC.

I expect even if we draw the next two games (my personal best expectations after today's dismal performance), we won't appear in the top 15... and we shouldn't be. Europe, much of South America, maybe even a couple African teams, are better than the US's national team.

I plain just don't get this "we can beat Italy" stuff. Ridiculous.
The result will be just as plain as today's if not as scoring-intensive. Italy will lay back and defend with a 1-0 lead, and they will not give it up. Period.

Heathen's right about the Czechs being very good. Nedved, despite his age, is one of my favorite players. (Perhaps that's why I was so annoyed with Reyna trying to take out his knees like he was a f**kin' Cobra-Kai.)

I think I'll miss today's action... meaning I have really not seen very much thus far, but after today, I should be able to Tivo stuff and watch later.

[IntheNet]

I have never felt so totally embarrassed by a team in my life!

Bruce Arena: You need to do better! If you aren't ripping this team within an inch of its f-in life for its lifeless play you don't deserve the title "Coach"! What the USA showed during its game with Czech was outright cowardice! Even the faces of the USA players during the National Anthem was fear. This is the World Cup; time to stand up, not roll over. You have two games left as coach: I suggest you justify America's trust in you by coaching the team. Some Sports Illustrated site showed that 70% of USA's touches/passes in USA vs. Czech game were to the rear! That has to be reversed! No offense means no win. Wake up Bruce!

Donovan, McBride, Beasley, Onyewu, and Pope: None of you stepped up and most of you failed in some small and mostly large measure. None of you deserve to be fielded again. This is the World Cup boys... Beasley: Your comments in the media are a testament to your lack of understanding. There are hundreds of American soccer players upset at your lack of performance. You deserve to be benched.

Keller: Three goals passed you is unacceptable. While none can be directly blamed at your direct responsibility, some effort on your part is necessary. You deserve the bench while Tim Howard starts next game. Go back to your castle and read a bit on Brad Friedel's earlier performance in the net: That is what was needed from you against Czech and you failed to deliver.

Convey: You showed well in practice but in game your performance was a disaster. Step up in the next game; run with abandon down the side, feed to the center, and play with the same fiece determination that you do at Reading...

Reyna, Bocanegra, Johnson: Thank you all for showing the only spark of this otherwise lifeless team... continue this spark into games with Italy and Ghana and we might manage to come home with only 90% of our tails between our legs. Castigate loudly any other player not stepping up as you all stepped up.

Next Game Starters: Olsen in Midfield, Dempsey on top, and Howard in the net. Play like it is your last game in life as it likely will be. Demonstrate your skill. Reyna, Bocanegra, and Johnson should also start, and try to make it happen again. Defense: Who knows.... can any of you guys manage it? I somehow wish we had more Latin players on this team to explain to your morons what the word "heart" means on the pitch!!! You have to leave it on the field, and play like it is war!

One last word to USA Men's National Team: For the last four years I faithfully followed your progress; you morons let me down, you let your country down, you played like girls! You deserve every condemnation offered. Suck it up. You guys also owe me a new television, which I broke after the Czech's scored #3 against you, as in that moment my remote squarely hit dead center of 19" Zenith head on! That's my problem. Your problem is handling this loss, sucking it up, and coming out and playing Italy and Ghana like the men you are suppse to be... likely the goal scenario and points distribution means you guys are already headed home... play like lions anyway!

Lastly: Beasley=> If you are not sitting on the bench you should be, right alongside of McBride and Onyewu. The nation is dissapopinted in your performance... my 10th grade kids that I coach showed more agressiveness and offense... I hope you realize that...

I have never felt so totally embarrassed by a team in my life!

IntheNet

[Pimpbot]

Keller got beat by a close range header which came from poor marking by two defenders and one unstopable long range shot. You say he cannot be blamed for the goals, but you ripped his effort? can you explain what you mean.

[IntheNet]

Keller got beat by a close range header which came from poor marking by two defenders and one unstopable long range shot. You say he cannot be blamed for the goals, but you ripped his effort? can you explain what you mean.


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...370928&cc=5901
"Arena blamed his veteran goalkeeper Kasey Keller for 'putting the ball upfield where we have nobody' at the start of the sequence that led to the first goal."

Three goals passed you is unacceptable. While none can be directly blamed at your direct responsibility, some effort on your part is necessary...

Study prior USA keepers and their energetic performance...Friedel is a good example; as opposed to Keller's remarkably bad positioning during game with Czech. He was off his line time and again...Further, return of balls upfield need to be in general area of his own team members; not direct service to Czech team!!!

[davematthews3]

South Korea won 2 to 1 against togo. The other two matches today should be pretty good. In France vs Switzerland and Brazil vs Croatia. It will be really interesting to see just how good Brazil is. I really hope the swiss win the match today. Swiss and England are the two teams out side of the Us that I have taken rooting intrest in.

[HibachiDG]

Keller got beat by a close range header which came from poor marking by two defenders and one unstopable long range shot. You say he cannot be blamed for the goals, but you ripped his effort? can you explain what you mean.

InTheNet is spot on with putting blame on Keller for at least the first goal. To an untrained eye, the first one was not Keller's fault, but anyone who watched how it unplayed knows that that was Keller's blunder and Arena rightfully called him on it. So, he can't be blamed for the goal in the sense that no keeper is going to stop that shot, but his effort in poor decision making can certainly be blamed.

On the second, it just seemed that he didn't follow Onyewu's clearance. Had he done so he would have been in better position for a shot to come in. Again, given Keller's position, it was certainly unstoppable, but he should have better positioning in there.

No excuse for Keller's poor play. If he plays a good game, like InTheNet wants out of him, USA has a shot at a draw.

I plain just don't get this "we can beat Italy" stuff. Ridiculous.

They certainly match up with Italy better than they did the Czech Republic. I figured USA would draw with the Czechs at best and then beat Italy, even with a 3-0 loss, I don't see reason to change that. You didn't get the "we can beat Italy" stuff before this, though, so why would you expect to get it now?

[#99]

Re: Arena "throwing his players under the bus" -- I can't say that I blame him. We're the second-most experienced team in the tournament and we looked lifeless. Eddie Johnson was the only guy saving our attack from looking completely impotent and obviously there is a lot more to be expected of Donovan and Beasley. Although, I think Arena needs to let Beasley run more, rather than committ him to both defending and attacking. Another second-guessing of the coach: putting both Reyna and Mastroeni on the field to start the match. They essentially play the same role and denied us of another attacker. Safe to say that everyone was shocked at how poorly Onyewu played.

Today, I was gutted when Togo lost their 1-0 lead to South Korea. It was looking good until that 53rd minute red card.

Not at all surprising that France and the Swiss played to 0-0 given their recent history against one another in qualifying.

Croatia made it tough for Brazil today. What a goal by Kaka!

Looking forward to perhaps the only group H game worth watching - Spain v Ukraine. Hopefully Shevchenko isn't kept out by his injury.

[Pimpbot]

Not to be blunt, but I think you have all over estimated what the US side was capable of. All this "we match up better against Italy" is going to bite you again. This is why I think Adu should have been in the squad to get valuable experience and the US team should try and schedule games against European sides.

[Pimpbot]

Also, I'd have to see a replay of the first goal to see Kellers positioning, but to me, it looked like poor defending allowing the attacker to get around the back.

[KevinBeane]

Not to be blunt, but I think you have all over estimated what the US side was capable of. All this "we match up better against Italy" is going to bite you again.

If Trinidad can tie Sweden, spending the entire second half a man down, then yes, we can beat Italy. I'm not trying to argure that the US is one of the world's greats - to be sure, I was one of the chorus telling Doug a month ago that they were not (ha HA! Sucker!!! :lol:), but the game against the Czechs obviously doesn't represent the very best the US can do, not by a long shot. In fact, as bad as the US looked, they held a 55%-45% possession advantage, which is not a stat line you see when a team is truly, utterly overmatched and overwhelmed.

I think they were sufficiently embarrassed to play much, much better against Italy. Does that mean they will beat them? Not necessarily. But I betcha they lose by no worse than one goal.

[#99]

Also, I'd have to see a replay of the first goal to see Kellers positioning, but to me, it looked like poor defending allowing the attacker to get around the back.

Agreed 100% Onyewu gave up on the play, letting Koller run by, then Pope (dwarfish compared to Koller) missed his mark entirely.

Saw Spain run rampant over Ukraine this morning, 4-0. What a beating. Ukraine got screwed on the third goal, though. The ref called a dubious penalty to start the second half, resulting in a red card. It wasn't a foul at all. Nevertheless, Spain was aggressive and superior from minute one. All this with Raul, Iniesta, Reyes, and Fabregas not even starting.

[HibachiDG]

Not to be blunt, but I think you have all over estimated what the US side was capable of. All this "we match up better against Italy" is going to bite you again.

Aren't I the only one to go as far as predicting a USA victory over Italy here? It's not like a ton of USA fans here are overestimating things.

Also, I'd have to see a replay of the first goal to see Kellers positioning, but to me, it looked like poor defending allowing the attacker to get around the back.

I think I mentioned that it was Keller that called for the USA to quickly run up the field, but if I didn't or InTheNet didn't...Keller's error was in rushing everyone up and then aimlessly booting the ball down the field. The Czech Republic is going to out play USA on a counter attack more times than not and Keller needs to recognize that.

They were certainly small mistakes by Keller, but completely magnified on this stage. He should have done better on both goals.

[#99]

Ecuador do look really impressive. And Costa Rica, this morning, looked like they did during qualifying: shaky. The great thing about the Ecuador rout is that they have the advantage on Germany in goal differential, meaning that a tie would secure top of the group for Ecuador. That's huuuuuge for when/if England comes out on top in group B, setting up an England v Germany 2nd round game. Yo!

[LA sports]

England beats Trinidad 2-0. It was not easy though, England scored their first goal in the 83rd minute. On England's first goal Beckham made one of the better passes I have seen though, it was pretty incredible.

I am watching Sweden and Paraguay right now, no score with just a couple minutes to halftime.

[#99]

Big love for my Liverpool boys, Crouch and Gerrard. England left it late, eh?

I freaking love that Paraguay is eliminated. They're just awful to watch.

[HibachiDG]

Damn, that Sweden game was nice. Thought they had a couple good shots to get the goal earlier, but kept things interesting the entire way. Tough break for Paraguay, they played a good game, better than their showing against England.

[Pimpbot]

England certainly were not very convincing today. But qualification is the name of the game and round two is in the bag. I must say though, I'm not sure who I'd rather avoid, Germany or Ecuador? the latter of the two played another good game today and scored some great goals.

[Pimpbot]

Just another thought on yesterdays Eng vs T&T game. With so many players in the T&T side playing in the lower English divisions, it must have felt like an FA cup game for most of the English side. No giant killings thankfully.

I would start Owen and Rooney up front against Sweden. Give them both at least the first half or 60 minutes in preperation for the 2nd round game.

[#99]

Argentina Argentina Argentina. WOW! Best performance I've ever seen in the World Cup (I've watched five). All six goals were spectacular, team goals (with the exception of Tevez's which was a brilliant piece of individual skill). They left their typical ***** tactics at home for this one. Brazil should be scared. Seriously. Messi (still not 100% fit) had a goal and an assist in just 15 minutes of gametime. The Cambiasso goal is my vote for goal of the tournament. Damn... Serbia should feel embarrassed. They flat out quit in the second half.

[HibachiDG]

Damn, I want to see Argentina vs. Brazil. No...I need to see that at some point this World Cup. Argentina looked clinical in the opener and amazing today.

[carter08]

GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl
GHANA!!!!!!!!!
2-0 Ghana over Czech
USA is still alive

[Pimpbot]

Excellent performance from the US today. To hold on like they did with one less player and even create a few chances while pushing forward was very impressive. I thought all red cards were deserving, although the first one I'm guessing would be only a yellow 50% of the time. It was however a reckless two footed challenge. Pope had no excuses, he was on a yellow and clearly played the man instead of the ball. De Rossi's elbow was a disgrace and maybe they should look into banning him for more than the 1 game, as he wasn't even interested in where the actual ball was.

Tough call on who will actually advance in this group. No one is going to want to finish runner up though, because Brazil is waiting in the 2nd round.

[#99]

The piece of Uruguayan **** that FIFA dug up to officiate the USA v Italy match is the worst ref in the world. Apparently, he wasn't allowed to referee in the 2002 World Cup because of "irregularies." I don't understand why that was lifted. Surely, he'll never call another game on this level. Surely. He, singlehandedly, ruined what was a perfectly good match and, potentially, derailed the United States' chances of advancement to the 2nd round. He should, in short, be strung up by his testicles while he watches his family get gang-raped and murdered below him. After witnessing that, he gets a bazooka in the face.

The red card on De Rossi - Completely warranted. No question he was just looking to destroy McBride's face.

The red card on Mastroeni - What an awful, awful, awful call. That tackle merited a yellow card, tops. To no other referee is that challenge deserving of a straight ejection.

Both yellow cards on Eddie Pope - They were simply fouls. I may give the first one, but certainly not the second and definitely not immediately out of halftime. Use some discression, you asshole!

Beasley's disallowed goal - There was jumping around and screaming like crazy when it looked like the US went up 2-1 while only playing with nine men. It was a miracle. Until it wasn't. The announcers assured the viewers on TV that this call was legit and that McBride -- in a PASSIVE (read: not involved in the play) offside position -- was screening the goalie, thus making it obstruction. This is nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense. And there's one incident that springs immediately to mind that goes hand-in-hand with this disallowed goal: tuck rule. NFL playoffs, 2001, Tom Brady of the Patriots FUMBLES the ball. The Raiders recover. Game over. Ref dusts off the rulebook and says, no, Brady "tucked" the ball and thus was in a throwing motion. Fumble erased, incomplete pass ruled, Patriots go on to win. My point is that this is a rule that is completely counter-intuitive to the spirit of competition. So the United States, yes, got tuck-ruled. That is to say, we got hosed. We got tuck-ruled, and the world knows it.

Italy - Are very lucky to come away with a tie. Aside from the last five minutes of the match, when the nine Americans left on the field were absolutely gassed from running up and down a 90-yard field all game, the US carried the play. They were more aggressive, had more opportunities, and were better on the ball than the Italians. That Beasley goal should've counted. USA should've won 2-1.

Coach Arena - Why no third substitution? WHY?!?! You've got Eddie Johnson -- the only American worth a damn against the Czechs -- sitting on the sideline, waiting to score some goals, and you don't put him in?? You're telling me that subbing Johnson in for McBride up front wouldn't have perhaps created an opportunity in one of our several (shorthanded) rushes upfield? Give me a break.

DaMarcus Beasley - Man... Disallowed goal aside, he was a major disappointment. A starter last game, he was brought off the bench against the Italians to provide some sort of spark, an attack, but he was very passive for much of his time in the contest. On a few occassions, when he was literally walking the ball upfield, it was because his exhausted teammates couldn't muster up the strength to push forward after they'd all sprinted from the Italian penalty area 80 yards towards their own. But mostly, Beasley was soft. Disappointing from one of our best players.

The good news - Team USA can still qualify for the second round if they beat Ghana.

The bad news - In addition to taking care of business, they'll need help from Italy against the Czechs. Thus, their destiny is not in their own hands. All Italy need are a tie, but winning the group would enhance their chances of not having to face Brazil immediately in round two. So let's hope Italy use that as motivation. The Czechs looked toothless in attack against Ghana (because their best forwards are injured) so there is every reason Italy should win.

I feel strange. This is the one and only time in my life I have ever cheered against the Italians and I'm really dejected that the US had to settle for a tie. However, if both USA and Italy win on Thursday, I get the best of both worlds and both teams will move on to round two. Here's how it breaks down for the remaining matches in this group on Thursday and what each team needs in order to move on to round 2:

Team W L T pts Goal Difference
Italy 1 0 1 4 +2
Czech 1 1 0 3 +1
Ghana 1 1 0 3 Even
USA 0 1 1 1 -3

Italy v Czech
USA v Ghana

Italy - Advance to 2nd round with a win or a draw.
Czech - Advance with a win.
Ghana - Advance with a win or advance with a draw and Czech defeat.
USA - Advance with win and a Czech defeat.
* If both games end in a draw, Czech advances past Ghana on the goal differential tie-break. How huge is that blown third goal for Ghana, now?!?

[Pimpbot]

Look, I know you're biased being a US fan, but the disallowed goal was perfect officiating. He was in an offside position obstructing the goalkeepers view. Easy call.

I didn't see Popes first foul, but his second was clearly a yellow card offense, as the Italian player was moving forward in an attacking position and Pope didn't play the ball. It's an obvious yellow card and he should have known better in with his previous booking.

Here's a small snippet from the BBC match report.

Moments later, Mastroeni was off too. His two-footed, reckless lunge on Pirlo was deserving of a red card and left referee Jorge Larrionda with little option.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4853182.stm

[MountaineerDave]

I felt that both reds were deserved. The US entered the game playing a slightly dirtier brand of football, tackling late all over the field. I thought Pope deserved a talking-to after the tackle that brought his first yellow, instead of an actual card, but after receiving the yellow, he continued to tackle late, continued to play the role of bruiser, and I thought his sending off was entirely unfortunate, but deserved.

As for Mastroeni, he'd been warned. He'd been spoken to. He'd been given a number of opportunities to get it right, and each time, he repeated the mistake, came in late. Of its own, i don't think the tackle itself was deserving of a red card, but Mastroeni's continued late and man-not-ball tackling got him what he needed.

The worst part, of course, is that both are gone for the Ghana game, and while Pope might not be missed too much--his age is showing--Mastroeni had easily been the US's best player up to his dismissal. (Maybe not easily. Dempsey was very good in the first half.)

Beasley. I agree with 99. I was busy slaying him with words when his goal was scored. I took them back, only to have the goal taken back--I'm not so viscerally angry about this result as 99, so I'm willing to buy the interference call--but never did he even try to get near the goal again throughout the remainder of the game. Huge disappointment. And, if the team were full strength for Ghana, I wouldn't play him at all. Unfortunately, we're a little thin heading into the Ghana game, so he'll likely see at least 30 minutes of time on the pitch.

Dunno why Arena never used the third sub, except perhaps he was afraid to fix something that wasn't broken. It was working with McBride in the middle. They were able to push even a man down. They were working hard, pushing the Italians to the limit time and again.

Bocanegra & Reyna need to spend some time thinking together. Their failure to coordinate in the first half cost them at least three opportunities to threaten the Italian goal. Of course, with Pope out for the Ghana match, does that mean that Bocanegra will be playing more centrally?

Landon: absent through much of the first half, it occurred to me that perhaps he gets a little lost trying to find space. In a much more open pitch (10-9), he was available much more often, I thought, and showed himself to be pretty creative, soemthing missing from his game throughout the entire Czech match and a significant portion of the Italy match.

I caught only the first 20 minutes of Ghana-Czech, and was shocked at what I was watching. I'm glad the US played as decently against Italy as they did, or I'd be morbidly depressed.
As it is, I think we'll be hard pressed to keep up with the Ghanians. They are freaking quick. They have some very good players... should be interesting.
And I won't be able to watch. Dammit.

[#99]

All due respect to the BBC and Mountaineer Dave, but I just can't accept that red card on Mastroeni.

As far as the disallowed goal, I understand that it was the "right" call and easily by the book, but that rule just rubs me the wrong way. I've always been of the mind that you're only involved in the play if the ball being passed is intended for you. I guess I'd just never seen the rule envoked before. In either case, if you can screen a goalie in hockey, you should be able to do it in soccer. That's my two cents, anyway.

Ghana will be difficult and is by no means a gimme, as we saw this morning. For what it's worth, I'd go with the following lineup:
GK - Keller
DF - Onyewu, Conrad, Cherundolo, Bocanegra
MF - Donovan, Reyna, Dempsey, Convey
F - McBride, Johnson

Another option could be to start Donovan upfront, again, and play O'Brien on the left with Convey at the top of a diamond formation.

[Pimpbot]

Only problem is, the offside rule isn't the same in hockey and blocking a GK in a small net with 5 players isn't the same as blocking his view in an offside position when the GK in football has a bigger net to defend.

I watched the Mastroeni sending off now a few times and I've changed my mind from being 50/50 to agreeing with the ref on the straight red card. It was a two footed lunge and thats unacceptable. And on Pope second yellow, he may have briefly touched the ball during the "tackle", but he certainly didn't look like he was playing the ball. It was just very clumsy imo.

[#99]

Croatia deserved a better result against the Japanese, given how many scoring chances they had (Srna's blocked PK among them). The tie means it's all over but the crying for Japan. If Brazil beats the Aussies as expected (kickoff in 5 minutes!) then Croatia just need to beat Aus to go through. Pretty good situation for a team that has 0 goals in it's first 2 matches.

Anyone else care to venture a guess at the US starting XI for Thursday?

[suedon1970]

Watching the Brazil/Australia game - I just love the names of the players on the Brazilian squad - Robinho, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho - hilarious!

I have enjoyed watching some of these games so far - I am really turning into a soccer fan of sorts!

[MountaineerDave]

The game will end momentarily, but the Aussies gave the world's best names (tournament's second-best team? I haven't seen Argentina, but much has been made of their performances to date) everything they could handle.

Bresciano was the best player, especially late, for the 'Roos.
I love Brazil, am sort of pulling for them, but it's hard to root against the 'Roos. Too bad they couldn't scrape out an equalizer before the icing goal from... the best name in football: Fred.
You thought Fred worked for CDW, but when he's not shipping you 'puter parts, he's subbing for the Brazilian national team.

Not a thrilling game, but good enough for Brazil. They need to seriously consider dumping Ronaldo from the starting lineup. Robinho was tons better in his brief subbing stint, and even Fred was more energetic.
I think it's all over for the man who was once magical.

[carter08]

How is a 2-0 loss giving everything

[MountaineerDave]

Australia was in the game from start to finish. Fred's goal came in the final few minutes... The 'Roos were a nice save by Dida and a few wide shots from equalizing prior to Fred's goal.
Make no mistake, the Brazilians were never in danger of losing, but they weren't so overwhelming that their losing the three points to a draw looked highly possible through much, if not most of the match.

[The Executioner]

Yo Dave, just wondering, how can you say the red cards will hurt the U.S. the most by Pablo and Eddie not being able to play aganst Ghana? Are you kidding? The fact that we were dominating the game and would have easily won by maybe 2 goals with the game being 11 on 10 for the U.S. isn't bigger?

The U.S. not only had the points taken from them, but also a great moment in U.S. soccer history. Ok, maybe the Eddie Pope call was 50-50. but the call on pablo was straight Red. Yes, Pablo had commited a foul before, but hadn't even been spoken to. You give him straight red? My freinds, straight red is for and outrageous act such as the elbow to Mcbride or a foul that eliminates a scoring chance. The foul was nothing close to either. 10 on 10, we win that game also.

I see the U.S. beating Ghana but the Czechs defeating Italy, ending our tournament.

One thing I loved about the game yesterday: At full stregnth, It was beautiful to watch the U.S. close in with 2 players on every Italian player that had the ball. They did this with out giving up big spaces. The first touch was on for everyone except for Convey, great ball movement, and just needed to finish. I belive that would have been a beautiful game for the U.S. had it not been for this Uragyian Ref.

[carter08]

WOW, the magic of the World Cup.

Yesterday i hated Italy, and now we all have to root for them to win

[Marc]

Bear with me. I watched the USA/Italy match and the Brazil/Aussie match today and a couple of soccer rules are confusing me. First, I know a yellow card is a warning, and you are ejected with two. A red card means you are automatically gone, but what I don't get is why the players red-carded are suspended for other games, too? If you compare it to the NBA, a player is ejected after two technicals, but it has no effect on future games. It seems ridiculous to suspend those two U.S. players for their red-cards, which were questionable, at best.

The other thing that baffles me is the clock. They play till 90 minutes, then add some sort of "stoppage" bonus time, but then the game seems to end at the ref's discretion, at some random time. This makes NO sense to me. Be gentle, I'm learning to appreciate the game. :)

Even with my limited knowledge, I found myself getting really pumped up watching the Brazilians and US play in their games. There is no doubt this game has a certain level of fluidity, grace, and it can be really beautiful. I like how they don't stop play for fouls as much and the clock keeps going (total opposite of the tick-tack nature of the NBA). Oh, and did I mention NO COMMERCIALS?! I love ABC-HD, they just need to zoom in a little more on the action.

[KevinBeane]

A red card means you are automatically gone, but what I don't get is why the players red-carded are suspended for other games, too? If you compare it to the NBA, a player is ejected after two technicals, but it has no effect on future games. It seems ridiculous to suspend those two U.S. players for their red-cards, which were questionable, at best.

The other thing that baffles me is the clock. They play till 90 minutes, then add some sort of "stoppage" bonus time, but then the game seems to end at the ref's discretion, at some random time. This makes NO sense to me. Be gentle, I'm learning to appreciate the game. :)



Question #1. The suspension element of getting a red card is, I imagine, designed to be a deterrent against hard fouls. Perhaps you'd see a ton of end-game red cards if someone needed to make a goal/stop badly if they new they'd only miss the next couple minutes, and then suit up again for the next game.

#2. It's tradition, although it's one I don't like either. The time added on at the end isn't random or arbitrary though. It's the amount of time estimated lost to injuries (and I imagine things like goal celebrations, can someone confirm/refute) during that half.

[Pimpbot]

I thought the Aussies were very unlucky today. They played really well and troubled a Brazilian team that either took them too lightly or maybe aren't that good after all? they certainly have some problems in their central defense and I'd have to say that Argentina given their first two game showings, would be very comfotable against Brazil. Seeing the Australian team play today reminded me of a thread from a few months back where I backed the Aussies as deserving of a WC spot without having to go to a knock out match to make it through.

I'd be very pleased if the French went home early. They should have won today though and were unlucky to get what was a goal, called back.

To follow up from Kevin to one of Marc's questions. In regular club football, bookings both red and yellow add up as the season progresses and eventually when a player is booked enough, he is suspended for a certain amount of games. As the WC is a shorter tournement, the bookings are somewhat harsher. Also, stoppage time is a very good thing when you a lot of wasted time due to injuries and time wasting tactics by certain teams. The South Americans are infamous for diving around like they have just been shot, to kill a little time.

[MountaineerDave]

So, suspensions for accumulating bookings is something I quite like about football. It has its pitfalls, one of which you miss in a tournament of this type.
The point of suspensions after accumulating a red card or two yellows (over a period of time, Marc, getting two yellows==one red card, such that had Reyna gotten a yellow yesterday, because he had one v the Czechs, he'd have to sit out the Ghana game) is to keep players from playing too violently, or committing game-changing fouls just to change a game. If planting an elbow in Thierry Henry's head only gets you thrown out for that game, what's the point of NOT committing that foul if you have a goal lead or only need/want a draw. Suspensions keep the play mostly civil, protects its stars and best players (to a degree). It also has the desired effect of keeping off the pitch those players who are prone to poor tackling, overemotional behavior, retalition, etc.

There exists, btw, a method of appeal to reduce a booking from red to yellow or to non-existent. While I've read nothing of the US's attempts to follow this path, it is available to them. I seem to recall from the '02 WC an Italian appeal of a red card that left their top player, Totti, in the balance till the day of their next match. (Upon consideration, but without research, perhaps the question surrounding him had to do with off-field activity, or behavior on the pitch that went uncalled by the officials that the suit-types wanted to have punished. I forget, exactly. Coulda been Del Piero, too. Four years ago was a long time ago for my aging brain.)

As far as stoppage time goes, it's a necessary evil since the clock never stops. Near as I can tell, the officials this WC have stuck quite firmly to a 3:00 stoppage time, which is right on most of the time, and a bit of an underestimate others. (France-Korea seemed deserving of more than 3 minutes of stoppage, but that's all they got in the end.)

Meanwhile, I've never heard anyone suggest the US's game as fluid or beautiful. They were much better v Italy than v Czech Rep., but rarely fluid and never beautiful. (Some of that is Italy's fault, of course.)

Gconnhokie: You're kidding, right? Beasley's goal/non-goal notwithstanding, the US didn't score a goal. You realize that, right?

This is something that bears recognition, btw: The US has FAILED to score a goal of its own. For all of their much more spirited play v Italy, the goal they got to keep was recorded by Cristian Zaccardo, an Italian player.
To beat Ghana, it's highly possible they'll need three. I don't see anywhere on their pitch where they can get more than one. Keller's good to allow at least two goals v the likes of Asamoah going against the US's weakened defense.
While I was happy yesterday, after thinking on it, I think the US loses to Ghana on Thursday. And just as well. What would be the point of putting this bunch up against even a poorly playing Brazil. The Aussies have as much heart (and better coaching) as the Americans, and they couldn't scrape out even a goal.

[HibachiDG]

The red card to Mastroeni was an absolute joke. Just a terrible call. Not even defensible. Blown call, it happens, you just have to hope it doesn't happen in times like these. I didn't see the second yellow to Pope (although the first probably should not have been yellow) or Beasley's disallowed goal yet, as I caught the first half and then the last 15 minutes. Got the game taped to catch the rest.

Definitely dissapointed with how the first half finished goal wise, in that USA dominated Italy, just couldn't get a goal of their own across on them. They outplayed and outclassed them in every manner. Italy just finished when the opportunity came available.

I left figuring that USA would be able to get a goal in 10-10 and pull the win, unless Italy came out and completely flipped their play, so when I got the 1-1 score in a restaurant later I was a bit dissapointed until finding out Pope got ejected also.

USA played a great first half, so them not getting a goal doesn't dismay me as much as it would otherwise. Goals are few in soccer at this level and it certainly would have been likely they would have got one in the second half if they kept up that level of play and didn't get taken down to 9 men. Simply put, their midfield was just better than the Italians, at some point it would have created goals.

EDIT...saw the Pope 2nd Yellow...Questionable yellow. Closer to a yellow than the first call against Pope, where he got dragged down, though.

Look, I know you're biased being a US fan, but the disallowed goal was perfect officiating. He was in an offside position obstructing the goalkeepers view. Easy call.

And just because you're English doesn't mean you instantly have this soccer knowledge embedded in you. That offsides call was certainly close and actually, by the RULE, it likely was not an offsides call. Personally, in the spirit of the game, I think you call it offsides just because you don't want to take too many chances on a goal that shouldn't have been deciding the game. Hell, I could call you biased against the US team, for some fairly silly comments you have peppered throughout this thread, I just think you've been wrong a lot of times in this thread, though. If the guy wants USA to win, obviously he wants USA to win, but to call him biased because he thinks the official got a close call wrong? Come on, that's weak.

[KevinBeane]

While I was happy yesterday, after thinking on it, I think the US loses to Ghana on Thursday. And just as well. What would be the point of putting this bunch up against even a poorly playing Brazil.

Being one of the two teams out of the group of death (or co-group of death, if you prefer), is a nice consolation prize in my view even if Brazil beats them 5-0.

Things aren't as grim as they appear to be for US Soccer. They played badly against CZE, but they were able to win the possession battle against the alleged 2nd-best team in the world, and even if all the other stats went the Czech's way, the possession stat at least indicated they can handle the ball even if they were way too tentative and gunshy against CZE and then overcompensated against Italy.

And speaking of Italy, yeah, Ghana helped us out, but again, we did get a result and going into the final game of the group stages, we've got a chance to claim 2nd in the group outright and get out of the stage. I think the Ghana game will be great, but if I had to pick one of the three groupmates as the do-or-die opponent, it would still be Ghana.

[Pimpbot]

The red card to Mastroeni was an absolute joke. Just a terrible call. Not even defensible. Blown call, it happens, you just have to hope it doesn't happen in times like these. I didn't see the second yellow to Pope (although the first probably should not have been yellow) or Beasley's disallowed goal yet, as I caught the first half and then the last 15 minutes. Got the game taped to catch the rest.

Definitely dissapointed with how the first half finished goal wise, in that USA dominated Italy, just couldn't get a goal of their own across on them. They outplayed and outclassed them in every manner. Italy just finished when the opportunity came available.

I left figuring that USA would be able to get a goal in 10-10 and pull the win, unless Italy came out and completely flipped their play, so when I got the 1-1 score in a restaurant later I was a bit dissapointed until finding out Pope got ejected also.

USA played a great first half, so them not getting a goal doesn't dismay me as much as it would otherwise. Goals are few in soccer at this level and it certainly would have been likely they would have got one in the second half if they kept up that level of play and didn't get taken down to 9 men. Simply put, their midfield was just better than the Italians, at some point it would have created goals.

EDIT...saw the Pope 2nd Yellow...Questionable yellow. Closer to a yellow than the first call against Pope, where he got dragged down, though.



And just because you're English doesn't mean you instantly have this soccer knowledge embedded in you. That offsides call was certainly close and actually, by the RULE, it likely was not an offsides call. Personally, in the spirit of the game, I think you call it offsides just because you don't want to take too many chances on a goal that shouldn't have been deciding the game. Hell, I could call you biased against the US team, for some fairly silly comments you have peppered throughout this thread, I just think you've been wrong a lot of times in this thread, though. If the guy wants USA to win, obviously he wants USA to win, but to call him biased because he thinks the official got a close call wrong? Come on, that's weak.


Funny how most non American websites and papers reporting on the match do not see such a bias view that you and just about every American news source did. By the offside rule, he was interfering in the play in an offside positon. Easy call! and even your boy Grant Wahl on CNNSI claims the Red card for Mastroeni was legit. "Wahl: I thought the two red card calls [against U.S. midfielder Pablo Mastroeni and Italy's Daniele De Rossi] were legit, just total red card challenges. A little more dubious was perhaps the second yellow card given to Eddie Pope. But it was a hard tackle from behind, and that's the kind of thing you don't want to take a risk on in that situation in the second half." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/grant_wahl/06/17/us.italy.qa/index.html It was two footed for crying out loud!. (Mastroni challenge)

Now check the correct FIFA rules Doug, page 32 diagram 6 of the pdf file to see that it was the correct call on the disallowed US goal. So now who looks silly?
http://www.fifa.com/documents/fifa/laws/LOTG2006_e.pdf

[matthews_world]

Korea is in a terrible group this year and has hope to advance to the next stage. Depending on what Suiss does against Togo tonight, Korea could end up winning their group. However, the goal from Park Ji Sun was quite lame and France got a bad wrap. Anyway, we Korea fans are celebrating!

[IntheNet]

Ref during USA v. Italy was a moron! This Jorge Larrionda, a Uruguyan, was prohibited from officiating before...

A stunning win by Ghana! Wow! Can't believe we play them next... they could be the toughest team in the Group, all things said!

Serious disappointment in Donovan and McBride! What's up guys? Can't capitalize on a man down Italian squad? That's pretty pathetic... we could have beat Italy so many times...

Kasey stepped up... made some brilliant saves...

Thursday morning decides it (if Italy beats Czech)!

What a World Cup so far!

btw... in case you missed it ... France surrendered again! :lol:

[carter08]

Jorge Larrionda=Phil Luckett
If you can't figure it out, Google the two names

[MountaineerDave]

It is noteworthy, oh Uruguayan Referee Haters nonAnonymous, that pimp is correct in noting that pretty much only the American fans are hating on the ref's performance in the US-Italy match.

An ESPN WC podcast that I haven't really been keeping up with but have listened a couple times had their correspondent say that all cards and fouls were right on.

As I noted earlier, I thought Pope's first yellow was debatable, but not the second. Pimp's insistence on Mastroeni's lunge being two-footed is highly noteworthy, as well. One: he's right. Two: Repeated late challenges are unconscionable. And he was late to the tackle on several occasions.

France didn't surrender, but they did get the short end of the stick on their second goal--called no goal. I thought I'd heard that FIFA was allowing review of questionable goal calls/non-calls. I missed the first half of the match, so I don't know if the review ever went into effect. Should have, though, and they should have been awarded the goal.
On the other hand: Does Barthez still start for France? I can't imagine it, myself. I thought the French coach let Zizou play too long. After the 70th minute, Zidane flat out quit. The worst part of that was that I'd just gotten done telling my wife that when he's right, he's amazing to watch. Then, he just sat around... Bastard.
And, if France don't qualify for the next round... what an awful way to end a career.

I was looking ahead: T&T amazingly could qualify for the next round. If England beats Sweden (I expect a 1-1 draw, though), and T&T beats Paraguay by 2 goals (this number actually depends on the Eng-Swe final score), they go through and Sweden limps home. Incredible.

Australia needs nothing more than a 0-0 draw with Croatia to get through. Hiddink is a very good (is it okay to call him great?) coach. This squad has historically been very bad, despite their premeirship credential-toting players, and I believe they're the third best team I've seen play. (I've only watched a handful of games in the tournament: US, Italy, Croatia, Korea, Ghana, T&T, Sweden, France, Japan, Australia, Brazil, Czech Rep). (Brazil & Czech Rep v US, not the CR v Ghana, being better.)

I am loving this tournament, if I've only seen a few games. To my dismay, the US game is on during a time that I won't be able to get away from work for more than a couple minutes, if that. Of course, I may not want to see it... ;)

[carter08]

Ukraine 3
Saudi 0
at the 78th minute

[MountaineerDave]

Ukraine really needed that after getting schooled by Spain.
And, while I'm not anti-Muslim, I must admit I'm rooting pretty strongly against the Muslim nations in this WC. Iran for obvious reasons. And Saudi Arabia for being pretty odious in some ways similar to Iran, and despicable for other reasons, too.

And Sheva got a goal, right? Good thing, this likely his final WC. (He could potentially play a minor role a la Zidane for France, in 2010, but it seems unlikely.)

[MountaineerDave]

Nice comeback by Spain. I didn't see any of the match, but it appeared from teh web that Tunisia played hard, but were overmatched.
Good for Spain that Raul got a goal. Interesting that he didn't start. I like it.

Spain may opt to sleep through their match with SA later this week.

[HibachiDG]

Now check the correct FIFA rules Doug, page 32 diagram 6 of the pdf file to see that it was the correct call on the disallowed US goal. So now who looks silly?

Ummm...you STILL look silly. Seeing as you completely failed to grasp the point. It's not BIAS instantly just because you disagree with someone or think they are wrong about something. Guess what, whether or not the player is in the keeper's line of vision is a judgment call. Someone in this thread made the judgment that McBride was not in the line of vision, you made the assessment that he was. You guys disagree it does not instantly make him BIASed.

Again, my point is that you rushed to calling someone's analysis of a play as having bias in it, with having no real basis for it other than "I disagree, lots of people disagree, he is american, he must not be analysing the situation properly!"

It is noteworthy, oh Uruguayan Referee Haters nonAnonymous, that pimp is correct in noting that pretty much only the American fans are hating on the ref's performance in the US-Italy match.

Yeah, go figure that the ones hurt MOST by the ref are the most vocale about it...

Errors in officiating are what they are and they're always going to be there. They always get magnified by the folks that are hurt most by them...especially when you have people talking out of their ass to blindly make excuses for the official. It happens constantly. Someone gripes about a ref, someone sticks up for the ref and things balloon out of control.

Second, they were also huge moments in the game and if they don't happen (whether you think they were officiated rightly or wrongly) the game is turned on its face. They are to be scrutinized. Obviously Americans are going to scrutinize those plays more than some analysts for the BBC. I've watched the replay of the Mastroeni red, the other cards, the Beasley no-goal and Totti's possible dive to set up Italy's goal a ton of times. Probably more so than the average person from another country.

Back to Mastroeni...

and even your boy Grant Wahl on CNNSI claims the Red card for Mastroeni was legit. "Wahl: I thought the two red card calls [against U.S. midfielder Pablo Mastroeni and Italy's Daniele De Rossi] were legit, just total red card challenges. A little more dubious was perhaps the second yellow card given to Eddie Pope. But it was a hard tackle from behind, and that's the kind of thing you don't want to take a risk on in that situation in the second half." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....qa/index.html It was two footed for crying out loud!. (Mastroni challenge)

For starters, why is some guy I've never heard of for a publication I don't value "my boy"? As for the rest...

Pimp's insistence on Mastroeni's lunge being two-footed is highly noteworthy, as well. One: he's right. Two: Repeated late challenges are unconscionable. And he was late to the tackle on several occasions.

Two-footed late tackles don't instantly get red cards though. Pointing out that it was two-footed isn't exactly noteworthy. What should get a red card (if you could only pick one from the two...) a late two-footed tackle or a malicious one footed tackle? The malicious one footed tackle, obviously. Because that is the purpose for the red card.

As to your second point, any ref that notices someone sliding in late and then goes to a red on the next late slide without warning the player is a ref that shouldn't be in the game. I'll give this ref the benefit of the doubt and assume he thought malice, which I disagree with, but it's certainly a step above the blunder that failing to warn a player and going right to the red would be.

Two-footed late tackles aren't instantly red cards. Let's not push that myth. Obviously a two footed tackle without malice is going to be closer than a one footed tackle without malice, but it's not one of those things where the ref is going to go "late and two footed...RED".

[Billy D]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Czech Rep. ties or beats Italy and Ghana downs the USA. I'm hoping for the opposite, but after Saturday's games this is what i see happening

[Pimpbot]

Doug, a two footed challenge where you take the player out, is a red card in any league, unless the ref is blind or the tacklers brother in law. Who in the hell taught you the rules of football?

[Pimpbot]

http://www.fifa.com/documents/fifa/laws/LOTG2006_e.pdf

Page 32 of the PDF
Serious Foul Play
Any player who lunges at an opponent in a challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

[HibachiDG]

Who in the hell taught you the rules of football?

Someone who knows the game more than you do, apparently.

Doug, a two footed challenge where you take the player out, is a red card in any league, unless the ref is blind or the tacklers brother in law.

By any league, I hope you just mean....well, it just makes me wonder what leagues you watch...

Re-read your definition you just gave and tell me where the two-footed challenge alone gets a red card...

Serious Foul Play
Any player who lunges at an opponent in a challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

You should be able to note that this includes one or both legs...the key being excessive force that endangers the safety of an opponent.

I don't believe Mastroeni's tackle was with excessive force, it was simply late.

[Pimpbot]

There is no such thing as a safe two footed challenge Doug. If you leave the ground with both feet for a challenge, the only reason you'd do it is if you had intent to foul. When we were kids, we use to play "Foul Football" where there were no rules and the two footed challenge was used to great effect.

And as far as definition, don't you think there is a difference between foul play and serious foul play? two footed tackles are serious foul play.

[HibachiDG]

I agree there is a difference between foul play and serious foul play, and was wondering if you recognized the difference.

While a two footed challenge might not be safe, that doesn't automatically put it into serious foul play category and I don't know where you even begin to make that jump. A lot of things about sport are not safe.

You have to be able to recognize when a tackle is simply late and when it is malicious. If you want to give him a yellow for being late, fine, but to give a red in that situation is beyond ridiculous. It's not the two-footed nature that takes a foul from foul to serious foul, though. It's just silly to believe that.

EDIT...and just to clarify for someone who may be picking this up mid-way through, I'm not saying that I think the referee saw a two-footed tackle that was late and took the player down and decided to give a red card. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that where he missed it was in the degree of severity in the tackle. That the ref thought there was a level of malice that I just don't think was there. Honestly, at this point I just think the ref thought he caught him with his cleats up, which would be an indicator of that malice they want to avoid. That's why I think he gave him the red card and I because of that, I think it was wrong.

[matthews_world]

Group G is interesting and we'll see what comes about this weekend. For Korea to make it, they need some help from Togo. France was too old this year?

US will get a miracle if they advance. Gonna be tough to pull that off, esp w/ Ghana. Italy could get a nice win to help the Americans.

[IntheNet]

You have to be able to recognize when a tackle is simply late and when it is malicious...

This is called "playing the ball rather than the player" and it is rather obvious, in most instances, whether a defender is engaged in stopping the ball's path or the player's path... Soccer 101 say...

And yes if USA beats Ghana that would be miracle worthy, based on performance exhibited thus far... Officials from the Vatican in Rome will be standing by for miracle authentication if USA advances...

[Pimpbot]

I'm never going to convince you guys that a two footed tackle can only be malicious and red cardable. However, if you can point me to a tackle during this world cup that was two footed and fair, I'd be willing to change my opinion. When I originally saw the tackle I thought it may have been harsh to get a straight red card. Having since seen the replay, I'm convinced that almost all the referees in this World Cup, would have sent him off and I'm basing my opinion on the FIFA rule book and close to three decades of watching football.

[IntheNet]

if you can point me to a tackle during this world cup that was two footed and fair, I'd be willing to change my opinion...

I can recall several during Ghana v. Czech game, in first half, that were allowed... not saying mind you whether they were fair or not, just that this Ref didn't card them during this game! That's the problem actually; Ref calls need to be consistant from game to game throughout Cup, not unique to game!

[#99]

What I wouldn't do to have the US playing in Groups G or H. Man oh man...

Two-footed challenges: Pimpbot is generally correct that most two-footed, studs up, tackles will get a red. I still feel like Pablo should only have seen yellow, but this is a point I'm willing to concede. Especially since it doesn't really matter, now.

Not having Pope and Pablo: Blessing in disguise for the US. We need to press, attack, SCORE lots of GOALS. We'd get neither from the two suspended players. And we need to get the creativity and scoring threat of Eddie Johnson, John O'Brien, Clint Dempsey, and Bobby Convey involved. Earlier in this thread, I hazarded a guess at what Arena would put on the field if we opted for a 4-4-2 formation. But the more I think about it, the more I'm of the opinion that 3-5-2 is better suited to our needs. Again, we need GOALS.
GK - Keller
DF - Gooch, Bocanegra, Cherundolo
MF - Reyna, Donovan, Convey, Dempsey, O'Brien
F - Johnson, McBride

With Beasley providing a spark off the bench (seeing as how he doesn't provide a solid 90 minutes anymore), this is probably our best look for an attacking side.

[#99]

Oh, and Germany spanks Ecuador to take Group A. England need a result against Sweden to avoid meeting the hosts in round 2. FYI, England haven't beaten the Swedes in 38 years.

[MountaineerDave]

In regards to this, while we might wail on about the imposition of the desires of the likes of Blatter, et al., this piece up on si.com is worth a read (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/soccer/world_cup_blog/2006/06/lay-off-larrionda.html), and is a fair interpretation, I think, of what goes on. In particular, if the ref knew Blatter was in the seats, it seems more likely that Larrionda is going to call a more officious game than he might otherwise.

On to matters that matter: stunned by Germany running roughshod over Ecuador. Didn't see the match, but the overwhelming scoreline leaves me concerned for Ecuador as they progress. They'll have England next. An interesting match. I suppose the Germans were not itching to face the English... Although, if the Swedes can pull out a win over the English today, t's Germany-England in the next round.

[MountaineerDave]

99: While I like your thinking on the lineup, I have these questions:
Is this group going to score 4 goals? Because that backline is allowing three.
I realize Onyewu has been mediocre to frighteningly bad, but Gooch? Are you serious? The guy... Let's just say I didn't love him 4 years ago when he was over the hill.
Mastroeni will be missed horribly. I don't think we'll miss Pope so much, but Pablo was keeping the midfield tight and under control. I don't think we'll control the center of the pitch nearly as well without him.

Could be that Ghana will choke it all away, of course. With the right thing happening in the other match, they could go through, and that might be scary enough for them to play tight and tense and allow the seven goals we could need for going through if the Czechs beat Italy.

[IntheNet]

Again, we need GOALS.
GK - Keller
DF - Gooch, Bocanegra, Cherundolo
MF - Reyna, Donovan, Convey, Dempsey, O'Brien
F - Johnson, McBride

You forgot MF Ben Olsen... he's the spark needed against Ghana...

[HibachiDG]

Two-footed challenges: Pimpbot is generally correct that most two-footed, studs up, tackles will get a red.

If this is what pimpbot is saying, then I apologize, as I've certainly misread what he is saying. If this is so, I'd need to be pointed to where he is basing this on the studs up portion, because I've missed it. I agree that if a tackle is two footed and studs up, it should be a red card. I don't think Mastroeni had his cleats UP, though.

But, if pimp has been saying that he thought his cleats were up in making the tackle, fine. That's just a disagreement amongst our eyes.

[Pimpbot]

That is what I've been talking about Doug and while I've seen worse than Mastroeni's challenge, you have to believe if you leave the ground with both feet, lunging into a tackle, you will have to face the music. If you ever get chance to watch some old English games from the 70s, you'll be shocked at the downright viciousness of the tackling. A lot of players from that era would never last 90 minutes in todays game.


England played well in the first half today and then seemed to fall to pieces once Sweden scored. Joe Coles goal will be in the top 3 at the end of the tournement. I'm hoping that Sweden's second goal wouldn't have gone in had Ferdinand still been on, but either way, it was a terrible defensive error. Looking forward to sundays game against Ecuador. One would hope that they are starting to run out of steam. Losing Owen his huge for a squad that only brought 4 strikers and one of those barely played for his club(Walcott) and Rooney just coming back from an injury. Sven will get buried by the press is this comes back to haunt them.

[MountaineerDave]

Sven will get buried by the press is this comes back to haunt them.
That's a joke, right?
Sven could bring England the World Cup and the press would find some reason to bury him.
"They should have beaten Argentica by three goals, not two! If he weren't dancing with Real Madrid, England could have scored twenty goals in the final. It's his fault anyone did anything wrong. Because he's not English!"

Or words to that effect...

On the other hand, I wish our governing body cared enough to rotate our coach every few years. Arena's been running US soccer since when, 98? Time for him to go, imo, regardless of what happens Thursday. Get a legit national team coach, like Sven, or Guus Hiddink. I'm not of the mind that your national team's coahc needs to be of your national origin. Especially when you want to have a team with international flash.

And yes, I'm calling for Arena's immediate ouster, no matter what happens Thursday. There are better guys out there. Let's get one.

[Pimpbot]

Thats true, even if they were to win, they'd find something to beat him with, but they'd probably give him a weeks grace period. lol But I don't think it has anything to do with him being non English Dave. The tabloids in England are famous for taking down any English national team manager/coach whether it's football, cricket or rugby.

[KevinBeane]

On the other hand, I wish our governing body cared enough to rotate our coach every few years. Arena's been running US soccer since when, 98? Time for him to go, imo, regardless of what happens Thursday. Get a legit national team coach, like Sven, or Guus Hiddink. I'm not of the mind that your national team's coahc needs to be of your national origin. Especially when you want to have a team with international flash.

And yes, I'm calling for Arena's immediate ouster, no matter what happens Thursday. There are better guys out there. Let's get one.

Wow, he's not even "legit?"

But you're right, having a shot at qualifying on the last round robin day in the Group of Death, the best US World Cup result in modern times last time around, longest home shut out streak, 2 Gold Cups, and high FIFA rankings aren't good enough for me to call him "legit" either.

Seriously, of course I agree that national origin should not be a factor in hiring, but I don't see how any American could EVER be hired under your line of thinking, unless he earned his pedigree overseas. Obviously no one who built up their resume here could be a possibility, since we want "international flash." I'm not going to say there's not better coaches out there, but you obviously seem to think there's PLENTY who would not only be available and take the job but get us better results than Arena. Hey, maybe Bora Milutinovic is available! He's got TONS of international experience!

Funny, too, that your comments come on the heels of criticizing the UK press for being too hard on its coach.

[HibachiDG]

Of International names, if the Germans don't win the World Cup and get rid of Jurgen Klinsmann, I think that's a possibility for the US team. I don't think they're necessarily to the point of getting rid of Arena, though, even if they lose to Ghana on Thursday...and I think I said it would be an embarassment if they didn't get to the quarters and that they should expect to get to the semi's. I thought his lineup against the Czech's wasn't what it could have been, but I also think he bounced back against Italy. Still, I don't think all of the blame can fall with Arena to where we need to fire him.

[MountaineerDave]

It's all over now but the cryin'. Ghana 2 USA 1.

Didn't see a single second of the game. I'll be interested to hear what folks who watch think of the penalty.

[IntheNet]

Fire Bruce Arena...

The penalty cannot be blamed for USA's loss... this was truly a coaching disaster... 4-5-1 lineup didn't work against Czech, didn't work against Italy, and surely didn't work against Ghana... Arena is not offensive minded at all and he should be fired for it. He let us down with his asinine coaching. He didn't make decisions that needed to be made. That said, our team let us down as well. Landon Donovan and Brian McBride played truly awful in each game. Only Dempsey stepped up to the plate and delivered. Keller in the net made some bad -- really bad -- distribution moves where he was caught and he paid for it. Beasley was a total dissappointment; he passed to the rear in each game he played: no offense whatsoever... This new defender Onyewu should have been left home; he is not ready for World Cup play. And worst of all, Reyna should never have been rostered. He's a has been... he slowed down every offensive play.

Better USA players sat on the bench for the entire time in Germany.

Fire Bruce Arena...You set us back a decade with your stupid coaching. Your substitutes which you called were late and were often the wrong type; defense for offense. We managed exactly one goal in this World Cup; most of this can be blamed on the Coach.

I don't want to even think what this will do downstream... Bruce Arena set American Soccer back a decade with a truly awful display...I feel sorry for the next gerenation of Soccer Players that need to overcome this dissapointment. It is likely USA will not even qualify for the World Cup again until 2014.

Bruce Arena You Loser: You can't blame this disaster on bad Refs or bad calls or bad luck. It's your fault. Totally.

Fire Bruce Arena...

[MountaineerDave]

But, see, Doug, that's the thing: Other nations with much stronger teams every four years, or every year, for that matter, rotate their national coach. Sven's probably the longest term national coach in all of Europe. And he's out next month. Brazil has had two coaches since last World Cup, if I recall correctly, and they're right there. Better, Portugal fired their coach after the Euro2004 competition, and, while they're not likely to win the whole shebang, they're in as good a position as anyone still alive. Why?
Some of it is talent.
A lot of it, at least in this stage, is knowing almost intuitively how to employ the talent. Which coaches like Scolari, Hiddink, and another guy whose name escapes me seem to possess. I'm sure Arena's not on their level.
Arena's done a lot for US Soccer. But, why sit still and stagnate with the "oh, it's good enough" kind of crap. Four years ago was four years ago. We shocked the world.
We got schooled this time around, and are c