World Cup Final: Italy vs France

[#99]

For all the marbles...

I like the Italians (both as the team I'm rooting for and my pick to win). It looks a pretty even matchup on paper -- far closer than Italy/Germany, I'd say. Both teams have looked strong on defense, though I give the edge to Italy (again, no one has scored on them). The Italians also enjoy a superior advantage at GK with Buffon perhaps being the best in the world. Meanwhile, France have to hope against hope that Barthez doesn't committ a series of blunders, undoing all their defensive tactics.

The key to the game is Zidane. The master has lifted France on his shoulders the last two matches and has elevated the play of everyone around him. Ribery is a shoe-in for first XI of the tournament and, of course, we all know what Henry can do. He's easily the best striker Italy will have faced in this tournament. In spite of this, I believe that Pirlo and Gattuso will anchor a strong possession game for the Italians, similiar to their match against Germany, thus limiting the Frogs' chances. Toni and Gilardino are no slouches up front and the collective age of France is about 5,300 years old.

All these things taken into account, I'm taking Italy to win their fourth World Cup, 1-0.

What say you guys?

[Pimpbot]

If you asked me who deserved it more, I'd have to say the Italians. Their defense has been outstanding the entire tournement, conceding just one own goal and it's a complement to the US who probably give them their toughest game, although Australia put up a fight. I think I also saw a stat where 10 of their 11 goals have been scored by different players, 4 of those from players coming off the bench. They have strength in depth and will be difficult to break down.

The French on the other hand were none to special in the group games and needed an oscar winning performance by Henry to get by the Spanish. The last two games have been better, but I'm sorry, I cannot get involved in the hype surrounding the ageing French team, although Zidane has been playing great. To me, they are just average.

[Marc]

Funny that the U.S. outplayed the Italians, and here they are in the finals. But as an American and lover of Italian food (:D), I'm obviously anti-French. Go Totti! And it should be fun watching the balding Zidane play his last game for France. Italy 2-1.

Good Zidane article: http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2006/07/06/world_cup_zidane_bows_out_on_top.php

[Billy D]

Down with the cheaters. Go les Bleus!

I've only watched two Italy games, and one of them was that poor one against the U.S..... I have a feeling I've missed their talent. Oh well. I'll gladly stand on my island as the only French predictor, I think they have the ball control to manipulate the Italians

Plus with Zidane and Henry, anything's possible. Those 2 are elite, can carry the team

Yeah, I liked that Zidane article too

[themush]

My last name ends with an "a" and my grandparents came over from Italia, so go Italia.

[willtidey]

Fresher, with younger players and the best defence in the world - surely Italy are flyaway favorites for Sunday's game. France were gasping for air in the second half against Portugal - could it be one game too far for them?

The other advantage Italy have is strength in depth. Where the French fall back to second rate Premiership upstarts, Italy have a wealth of riches on the bench..

Italy 2
France 0

Will

[#99]

Down with the cheaters. Go les Bleus!


Someone didn't watch France v Spain...

[Billy D]

Someone didn't watch France v Spain...
haha. Touche. Paying off refs bothers me more for some reason, but you have a point

[#99]

No doubt, the scandal in Serie A is absolutely sickening. However, in all fairness, none of those players are being indicted or accused.

Also, while I admit that the way Italy beat Australia was dubious, practically every team in this tournament was guilty of diving and theatrics. Henry, Ballack, Shevchenko, Fernando Torres, ALL OF PORTUGAL, Ghana, etc, etc, the list goes on. The Italians get a bum deal for being singled out, I think. It's nice to see that Beckenbauer is attempting to take some action in the name of deterring this kind of play.

[HibachiDG]

I think Italy and Portugal were the worst offenders of the diving and theatrics all Tournament, which is why those two teams get singled out more so than anyone else. It just seems like with these two teams they teach it and make diving part of their gameplan. Other squads they might have the occasional dive, but with Italy and Portugal it just seemed to be something embedded in them.

[HibachiDG]

Zidane is a piece of ****. I just wanted a good game, which it has been, with no rooting interest, but now I want the Italians to pull this thing out.

[carter08]

ITALY WINS THE WORLD CUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1-1, 5-3 in PK's

[HibachiDG]

I wonder what effect this World Cup will have on soccer in the US. On the one hand, the whole Tournament had way too much diving and the most extreme of the cheaters won the whole damn thing...but at the same time, this was the most watched WC and the diving didn't really seem to hurt that, which probably means Americans are enjoying the sport more. The talking and realizing diving is occuring, but still watching and wanting the diving to be gone is definitely a good thing.

There was an article in the Washington Post today that said some British organization tracked the dives and Italy led the way with 32ish in their games. 8 ahead of the next biggest offender, Portugal. But, you didn't really need a statistic to tell you that. The interesting part of it was that the US team was only clocked for 5 dives in their 3 matches, one of the lowest totals. I hope that it stays that way in South Africa.

Yes, Italy succeeded in large part because of their cheating, but hopefully it won't become a trend that USA picks up on.

[Pimpbot]

What the hell was Zidane thinking? His career which has been glorious, will now forever be remembered for what has to be one of the most shamefull fouls in WC history.

[doublee]

I wonder what effect this World Cup will have on soccer in the US. On the one hand, the whole Tournament had way too much diving and the most extreme of the cheaters won the whole damn thing...

The irony is that it looked, to me anyway, like France got its goal from a great selling job. Did the guy for Italy even touch the French player? If he did it did not look like he got him by much.

I honestly did not watch many of the games, but I really enjoyed watching Henry play for France today. He was all over the place on the offensive end.

[carter08]

Zidane, one of the best, leaves the game in shame

[HibachiDG]

The irony is that it looked, to me anyway, like France got its goal from a great selling job. Did the guy for Italy even touch the French player? If he did it did not look like he got him by much.


Oh yeah, it didn't look like he got touched on that one. That player had a couple times where he went down in the box. He got the call on this one, which was pretty questionable, it was probably closer to a foul on the second one.

EDIT: Could become interesting the next couple of days if Zidane speaks about what the Italian player said to him. Foxsports has up an article saying...

"FOXSports.com's Jamie Trecker reports that French players told French media members that Materazzi used a racial slur which prompted the headbutt."

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5760742

Which would be a shame, but he still needs to keep his cool a bit more.

[IntheNet]

Zidane, one of the best, leaves the game in shame

His record as the "best" was just about neutralized after that insane and unwarranted head butt in extra time; forever his name will be associated with the word "stupid" in my opinion. He may have cost his team the Cup and as Captain he certainly should have known better... "Best"? Sorry... The best team won...

[Pimpbot]

Funny thing is, he's just been voted player of the tournement! But the majority of the votes were cast at halftime before the incident.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5154248.stm

[doublee]

EDIT: Could become interesting the next couple of days if Zidane speaks about what the Italian player said to him. Foxsports has up an article saying...

"FOXSports.com's Jamie Trecker reports that French players told French media members that Materazzi used a racial slur which prompted the headbutt."

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5760742

Which would be a shame, but he still needs to keep his cool a bit more.

Actually, I heard where Zidane claims the guy called him a dirty terrorist. Granted, it is not the nicest thing in the world to be called, but he needs to restrain himself better than that.

[Billy D]

Zidane is a piece of ****. I just wanted a good game, which it has been, with no rooting interest, but now I want the Italians to pull this thing out.
I had the same thought at the same time. I was pulling (a little) for France, then instantly wanted Italy to win

[Billy D]

The irony is that it looked, to me anyway, like France got its goal from a great selling job. Did the guy for Italy even touch the French player? If he did it did not look like he got him by much.
I think the Frenchy was touched, but it was a sell-job. I agree with Doug-- the non-call that came later was more of a foul. Does FIFA do make-up calls now? Where's Bennett Salvatore?

Question on Zidane: If he hadn't been tossed, whose place would he have taken for the PKs? The guy who missed? Or another dude?

Question on Barthez: I don't watch a ton of soccer, but it seems like PKs are easier to the "pulling side" than the "pushing side" (left net is easier for right-footers). Was it odd that Barthez kept guessing to the "pushing side"? Shouldn't he guess the other way more often?

[MountaineerDave]

Billy: I thought the later penalty box contact was in fact a make-up call. Indeed, through fifteen minutes of the match, I was pretty sure that France had paid the ref, because no calls were going the Italians' way.

There was a good piece in the NYTimes yesterday noting that for all of Zidane's "greatness," he has an historical dark side. In their quick summary, they noted that he earned himself a suspension in this WC (group stage; he missed the third game and I seem to recall thinking he might have deserved a red for his second yellow, but I don't remember the foul itself), earned himself a similar suspension in the last world cup (again, group stage, but it didn't matter, as France were practically out of the tourney already), had earned himself a five-game suspension in '01 during a Champions League match for stamping an opponent...
He, and to a much lesser extent Figo, is revered as one of his nation's finest footballers, but I've always felt that, Raul excepting, nearly anyone who plays for Real Madrid are classless buffoons. Galacticos, but wholly without class.

BTW, I started the game sort of wishing Zidane would go out a winner, but I immediately changed my mind when Malouda sold that "penalty" in the seventh minute. And I viewed Zidane's foul as obscene and vulgar. Doesn't matter what was said.
Also, Zidane was France's worst diver on Sunday. Anytime a body came near him, he toppled over like a newborn foal. Domenech claimed he'd been beaten on the entire game, but the only non-self-inflicted punishment I saw him take was on the collision that ended in his wrenching his shoulder. And some of that came from his own momentum into the collision.
I thought his chipping the penalty was contemptous and self-aggrandizing, rather than confident, and I'm personally glad to see his national team career end in such a distasteful manner.

All this said, should he end up playing for the Red Bull New York team as Dave O'Brien suggested, I'd go just to see him. All his classlessness aside, he still controls a ball better than any American around. (Better than most in the world, really, though Cannavarro--shouldn't he have been man of the match AND the tournament's best player????--and Materazzi were able to take advantage of the fact that he is 34 a few times on Sunday.)

Other items:
I haven't seen anyone (but I've been pretty cloistered with work) take Henry to task for leaving the pitch. Even if he'd played passenger through the final 14 minutes, he'd been a better PK taker than Sagnol, wouldn't he? Zidane really saved Henry's ass, imo, by committing that crime against soccer. All the talk has been: "shameful Zizou!" when it could easily have been, "pathetic Henry!"

I've mentioned it already, but Fabio Cannavarro deserved to be the tournament's best player. No, he didn't score any goals, but when he had to make stops, when the rest of Italy's back line sagged, he was there. He was in the middle of every defensive stand that the Italians made throughout the tournament. The team's offense was completely baffled for most of the game v France, but Cannavarro and Materazzi held solid inside (after Materazzi's near-contact that led to the penalty). For all of France's possession and seeming to control the game, they only forced two saves from Buffon (that I can recall, though maybe it was three), and the reason for that falls almost squarely on Cannavarro's shoulders. France were in a position to win by two goals, the way the game had played out. (Perhaps I shouldn't underestimate Gattuso's role in keeping the French scoreless from anywhere on the pitch but the spot, but it was Cannavarro digging in the corners and dispossessing the French as they were trying to set up service time and time again, or breaking up balls in that could have/should have fallen to French feet.) And after Zidane's moment of darkness, anyone else in the tournament would have been more deserving of being the tournament's best player.

Billy: Zidane wouldn't have replaced Trezeguet in PKs, but probably one of the later guys. His absence might have had no effect if DT20 still missed, but it would have been one more PK that France KNEW they had. Had Henry still been on the pitch, there's yet another PK that they KNEW they had.

As for Barthez: I don't know. It's pretty rare that a keeper guesses right anyway. And the role of the taker is to give the impression he's going one way when he does something else anyway. Buffon guessed wrong v DT20, and yet, the ball clanged off the bar and out. Probably not exactly what DT20 had in mind, but had clearly fooled Buffon.

[doublee]

There was a good piece in the NYTimes yesterday noting that for all of Zidane's "greatness," he has an historical dark side. In their quick summary, they noted that he earned himself a suspension in this WC (group stage; he missed the third game and I seem to recall thinking he might have deserved a red for his second yellow, but I don't remember the foul itself), earned himself a similar suspension in the last world cup (again, group stage, but it didn't matter, as France were practically out of the tourney already), had earned himself a five-game suspension in '01 during a Champions League match for stamping an opponent...

Yeah, I forget who it was, I think it may have Musberger in the postgame mentioning that Zidane got suspended for stomping on a guy when he was on the ground in the last World Cup. Knowing he has a history with losing his cool it kind of makes one wonder if the Italians were baiting him hoping he would do something stupid and get a red card.

As for Barthez: I don't know. It's pretty rare that a keeper guesses right anyway. And the role of the taker is to give the impression he's going one way when he does something else anyway. Buffon guessed wrong v DT20, and yet, the ball clanged off the bar and out. Probably not exactly what DT20 had in mind, but had clearly fooled Buffon.

Really. It is not like Italy's goalie was having any better luck at guessing where it was going either he just got lucky that one of France's guys hit the crossbar with his kick and it bounced back onto the field of play.

[bama4256]

Congrats to Italy.

[Billy D]

I haven't seen anyone (but I've been pretty cloistered with work) take Henry to task for leaving the pitch. Even if he'd played passenger through the final 14 minutes, he'd been a better PK taker than Sagnol, wouldn't he? Zidane really saved Henry's ass, imo, by committing that crime against soccer. All the talk has been: "shameful Zizou!" when it could easily have been, "pathetic Henry!"
Good point. France was really without their THREE best offensive players at the end (Zidane, Henry, Ribery... and this is a team that seemed to rely on star-power more than others)

[MountaineerDave]

Right, Billy. France had to rely on their stars, because they had no stars coming off the bench. Where Italy could go to DelPiero (who was nearly absent when he did come on, but had two touches that showed a little danger) and Iaquinta late, France had Wiltord, who's good, but he's no DelPiero. (They're probably pretty equivalent in this part of their careers, but Del Piero's the guy I'd want on the pitch if I needed the sub and the legs.)

I'd just like to restart the Arena must go discussion, btw.

In the last few days, we've seen Germany's Klinsmann step down after what was seen as a worldwide success by his team putting in a 3rd place performance. No one (few) thought this team had it in them to do much, but came tantalizingly close to going to PKs with the tourney's eventual winners.

Italy's Marcello Lippi, World Cup winning coach, also resigned from his post.

Let me reiterate: The WINNING COACH QUIT. That's how hard it is to do this job. (Yes, he had extenuating circumstances with the controversy ongoing in Italy, but it wasn't just that...)

So, two coaches whose teams performed at worst, a little above expectations and at best surpassed them wildly, QUIT.

Arena, a coach whose team seemed to give up on him before they landed in Germany, a coach of a team that had (perhaps overblown) hopes of advancing to the quarters at worst, has yet to resign. WTF?
I'm sure he's a fine enough coach, but it's time to move on. Especially with Klinsmann (and as far as I'm aware, Ericksson) available.

[doublee]

Isn't Lippi going on to be an assistant with Manchester United with the idea of him eventually becoming the Head Coach when the current guy steps down? I thought I heard that mentioned during the game. It could very well be he doesn't want the stress of juggling both.

[Pimpbot]

That was a rumor. Lippi has actually stated that his lack of English would keep him from managing an English side.

[Billy D]

That was a rumor. Lippi has actually stated that his lack of English would keep him from managing an English side.
Then teach the players Italian!

[MountaineerDave]

Or he could do what Liverpool's Spanish manager Rafael Benitez did: Bring in a bunch of Spanish players!

Not that Liverpool doesn't have English players (Rafa hasn't done quite the same internationalizing that Wenger has done in recent years), but he brought in a load of Spanish players a couple years ago. Hasn't won him anything in England, but he did bring a European title to Anfield, so that's something...