Republican wants to arm teachers, principals, and others

[buckeyefan78]

I'll just put this one right here and walk away...:lol:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/05/school.weapons.ap/index.html

[Tarkus]

Yer just dyin' to get that musket out of mothballs, aren't cha???:lol:

[IntheNet]

I'll just put this one right here and walk away...:lol:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/05/school.weapons.ap/index.html

Teachers should be heavily armed; with the crap they are teaching today I am surprised there aren't more gunfights at PTA meetings!
:lol:
Seriously though... schools should have guards, monitors, and some sort of evac plan... these school shootings are becoming far too numerous and always tragic... PROTECT OUR CHILDREN... no point protecting our airplanes at airports if we don't protect our children in schools!!!

[catman]

I agree that some contengency plans should be in place, but to turn schools into "armed camps" is a bit too much for me. If people would learn a bit of responsibility for their actions, things would be somewhat better, I think.

[tobynosker]

I don't think you will ever get "armed" teachers in one-room Amish schoolhouses.

And with nearly one-third of all public schools having been declared as failing under the fundamentally flawed No Child Left Behind law, the schools are now severely underfunded and because of budget restraints they have had to lose important positions like a school resource officer (exactly what happened in Bailey, Colorado).

[bama4256]

It's not a bad idea to arm teachers as long as they can get a permit and have an outstanding background. Might cut down on students getting killed. Just an idea.

[Marc]

Funny that the Republicans are the same ones who are pressing to ban online gambling and poker due to the fact that it "hurts family values" and all that conservative, religious propaganda (Bill Frist, I'm talking to you). Yet they want guns.

[Richard the Lionheart]

I'm all for internet gambling, but I have to say that's a little over the top.

This is one state lawmaker who called for this...not the Senate Majority leader in the Federal Gov....

[IntheNet]

It's not a bad idea to arm teachers as long as they can get a permit and have an outstanding background. Might cut down on students getting killed. Just an idea.It is an idea that should be considered. Frankly I am tired of seeing children shot in schools and something needs to be done... consider... we tried to "ban" weapons from school and that hasn't worked has it? So what is the alternative? Armed teachers might be a first step. How about teaching courses in safe gun handling? We teach kids to use a condom how about a double action .357?

The whole idea of removing guns from schools makes schools vulnerable. We now protect our planes at the airports better than our children. Let's try something else... Vice Pricipals armed and doors monitored if nothing more... evac plans and locked down classes...

[tobynosker]

Originally Posted by InTheNet
We teach kids to use a condom how about a double action .357?

And the teachers take advantage of the condoms by sleeping with their students.


If we "arm" teachers, do they actually walk around with the gun on them throughout the entire day? What would stop a group of students from taking that teacher down, stealing his gun and still going on a rampage?

Does it really make that much sense to allow students easier access to guns? I would assume that more guns in the classroom would lead to more deaths in the school.

And, if other faculty members of the school are carrying a gun, do we expect the student and the teacher to have a shoot-out in the hallways with an increased likelihood of innocent people being killed?

I would rather have trained law enforcement personnel handling the matter, which is why school districts hire school resource officers. And that is also the reason why we need to look even deeper into the issue of how to fund these positions.

[IntheNet]

Does it really make that much sense to allow students easier access to guns? Tightening access to guns HAS NOT stopped their use in high profile school shootings... three last week. Thus prohibition of firearms does not diminish school shootings...

I would assume that more guns in the classroom would lead to more deaths in the school.Perhaps. Perhaps it might not. Certainly some other path other than total prohibition is necessary.

I would rather have trained law enforcement personnel handling the matter, which is why school districts hire school resource officers. And that is also the reason why we need to look even deeper into the issue of how to fund these positions.When the instruction of morals in school was prohibited, what did you expect? Get to the root of the problem and you'll accomplish something... we are now training children in schools devoid or morals or values... we will have more rather than less violence in schools. The liberal educators have blood on their hands here...

[tobynosker]

I am sorry to take up an entire space for a post just for this, but...

Originally Posted by InTheNet
When the instruction of morals in school was prohibited, what did you expect? Get to the root of the problem and you'll accomplish something... we are now training children in schools devoid or morals or values... we will have more rather than less violence in schools. The liberal educators have blood on their hands here...

...Huh?

[IntheNet]

I am sorry to take up an entire space for a post just for this, but...



...Huh?

Toby (bolded part answers your question):

With the Colorado and Pennsylvania school shootings very much in the news, Brian Rohrbough, the Dad Of A Columbine Victim Asks “Why Did This Happen?”
Posted on CBS Evening News: Free Speech. Worth Quoting Verbatim:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/02/freespeech/main2057062.shtml

"I'm saddened and shaken by the shooting at an Amish school today, and last week’s school murders. When my son Dan was murdered on the sidewalk at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, I hoped that would be the last school shooting. Since that day, I’ve tried to answer the question, "Why did this happen?" This country is in a moral free-fall. For over two generations, the public school system has taught in a moral vacuum, expelling God from the school and from the government, replacing him with evolution, where the strong kill the weak, without moral consequences and life has no inherent value. We teach there are no absolutes, no right or wrong. And I assure you the murder of innocent children is always wrong, including by abortion. Abortion has diminished the value of children. Suicide has become an acceptable action and has further emboldened these criminals. And we are seeing an epidemic increase in murder-suicide attacks on our children. Sadly, our schools are not safe. In fact, we now witness that within our schools. Our children have become a target of terrorists from within the United States."

[tobynosker]

What does any of that have to do with "arming" teachers with guns?

[IntheNet]

What does any of that have to do with "arming" teachers with guns?

While I support armed teachers to make classrooms safe, I encourage the solution of the problem first; i.e., start teaching kids morals and ethics and right and wrong rather than perpetuating the problem...

[Dublin Mike]

So what happens when a kid gets a hold of one of the teachers guns and takes out 15 kids? And don't tell me the guns will be under lock and key, b/c if these kids want them bad enough, they'll get them. (if they are under lock and key, how long would it take teachers to respond to a potential threat)

An even worse scenario. Mentally unstable teacher loses it, pulls out his gun and takes out an entire classroom.

[IntheNet]

So what happens when a kid gets a hold of one of the teachers guns and takes out 15 kids? And don't tell me the guns will be under lock and key, b/c if these kids want them bad enough, they'll get them. (if they are under lock and key, how long would it take teachers to respond to a potential threat)

An even worse scenario. Mentally unstable teacher loses it, pulls out his gun and takes out an entire classroom.


Dublin Mike... What I am proposing is not a complete and or infallible solution but the current solution of total ban clearly isn't working... JUST TODAY=>

Student, 13, fires AK-47 in Missouri school
POSTED: 1:39 p.m. EDT, October 9, 2006
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/09/missouri.school.ap/index.html
JOPLIN, Missouri (AP) -- A 13-year-old student fired an AK-47 into the ceiling at his middle school Monday morning after confronting a pair of students and administrators, telling them "please don't make me do this," officials said. No one was injured, and the boy was taken into custody.

I'll ask again... why do we protect our airplanes at airports better than our youth at schools?

[tobynosker]

Originally Posted by InTheNet
No one was injured, and the boy was taken into custody.

Sounds to me like something worked.

[IntheNet]

Sounds to me like something worked.
:rolleyes:
That loud noise was the point rushing past you....

[tobynosker]

You are missing the point that anybody who wants to rush into any building and begin shooting people is going to be able to do it, regardless of their being a "total" or "partial" ban on firearms in that location.

So while you may not feel a total ban against firearms in school is working, it remains the best option. And it's a much better option than actually demanding that certain people bring guns into the school, where it becomes that much easier for any lunatic to access the weapon.

And it is also the best option to have law enforcement officials handle any incident involving guns in school rather than having untrained administrators and teachers become involved.

That is why there is a need in school districts for a school resource officer. The officer becomes the voice for both the school district and the police and sheriff departments, decreasing the amount of chaos that can result in these situations. Schools should also hold mock drills that would teach students, teachers and local law enforcement agencies how to respond, what to do, who to contact and where to go in the building (school resource officer who knows the building can inform police officers where to evacuate students, teachers and faculty members) when a terrible situation that will never be 100% preventable occurs.

[IntheNet]

So while you may not feel a total ban against firearms in school is working, it remains the best option...

Tell that to the children dead from school shootings in Pennsylvania and Colorado... In point of fact, the best option is someone putting the children's best interest first, rather than staid policy that somehow guns are bad, acknowledging the fact that no gun ever killed anyone on its own accord. People kill people. Therefore, address the moral issue. And in so doing, either put better guards at school doors or arm teachers. But don't just accept the status quo that total prohibition is working... because as the last few weeks have shown, it isn't...

[tobynosker]

I am beginning to think that you don't ever read the entire posts before posting.

Throughout this entire thread you seem to have missed my point on the need for school resource officers, and are instead trying to depict me as a morally deprived anti-gun lobbyist with absurd remarks like "tell that to the children dead from school shootings in Pennsylvania and Colorado."

But, then again, I have to remember who I am talking to.

Someone alert me when you are ready to actually converse intelligently about the points that others are making.

[IntheNet]

Throughout this entire thread you seem to have missed my point on the need for school resource officers....

Would said "school resource officers" be armed? If so, then accept my apologies for misunderstanding. If not, my point remains.

[tobynosker]

A school resource officer is a full-time uniformed police officer that is usually contracted out by both the local police department and the school district. He/She is "armed," handles and prevents crime, aids in disciplinary matters and also establishes a close working relationship between the Police Department and the school system staff.

[Ellis]

The problem is that schools are run like prisons. The idiot politicians and school administrations think that in order to make schools better you need new text books, new computers, smaller sized classes, and all kinds of material and irrelevant things.

It comes down to the basic things of life. You need to create a place where all kids can be themselves and feel accepted for it. We need teachers are down to earth and want to get to know the students and open up to the students. We need faculties that want to let the kids have fun and feel free. Students don't need all kinds of rules, prejudices, and pressure. They need an environment that is relaxed and open. One that encourages individualism, but teaches open-mindedness.

If we arm teachers, which will never happen, it will only increase school shootings. I really think that the kids who don't have any screws loose, but bring guns to school and shoot people do it because in some way they either want revenge on students/facualty in the school or they just feel like they have no where else to turn. That is why we need school to be like what I described and we need open-minded and friendly people running our schools.

[tobynosker]

Originally Posted by Ellis
The idiot politicians and school administrations think that in order to make schools better you need new text books, new computers, smaller sized classes, and all kinds of material and irrelevant things.

A lot of this stems from the demands on a school to make the adequate yearly progress (AYP) list of No-Child Left Behind, or else suffer sanctions because of the failure to do so.

[IntheNet]

A lot of this stems from the demands on a school to make the adequate yearly progress (AYP) list of No-Child Left Behind, or else suffer sanctions because of the failure to do so. So kids shoot up schools because they can't pass tests? And schools can't pass NCLB standards so it is.... wait for it... Bush's fault? :rolleyes: Sorry... I'm not buying that line... who is passing out this propaganda... Kerry?

[tobynosker]

Please read the post in which I quote before writing absurd and foolish remarks like "So kids shoot up schools because they can't pass tests?"

And my statement was not liberal, anti-Bush propaganda.

The implementation of the adequate yearly progress list of No-Child Left Behind shows that the results have very little to do with actual progress being made in academic achievement, and more to do with failures to meet statistical goals.

And for school districts with a number of students who suffer from learning disabilities (one learning cooperative in my hometown specifically), they are bound to be listed as "not proficient" because only one-percent are allowed to take an alternate assessment.

[IntheNet]

The implementation of the adequate yearly progress list of No-Child Left Behind shows that the results have very little to do with actual progress being made in academic achievement, and more to do with failures to meet statistical goals.

And for school districts with a number of students who suffer from learning disabilities (one learning cooperative in my hometown specifically), they are bound to be listed as "not proficient" because only one-percent are allowed to take an alternate assessment.

Prior post was partly in jest, but I did read the context and the entire post; I just fail to see any connection whatsoever between "No Child Left Behind" scores/testing and school violence... in fact schools hit by student violence include schools running teh range of academic achievement... I guess I misunderstood your ealier point? Further, I disagree with your assessment that NCLB testing doesn't yield academic achievement; U.S. DOE has studies pointing just the opposite. Further, though NCLB mandates certain standards need be met by schools, I feel it needs a hand-in-hand punitive functionality against teachers and educators who fail to meet minimum standards. It is no surprise that the biggest enemy of NCLB testing is the teacher's union: the NEA! The biggest advocate of NCLB is the parents. Make your own decision here...

[tobynosker]

Originally Posted by InTheNet
I just fail to see any connection whatsoever between "No Child Left Behind" scores/testing and school violence

I wasn't making a connection to "No-Child Left Behind" scores/testing and school violence. That was why I told you to read the quote in which I pulled from Ellis' comments.

If Ellis was making a connection between the politicians and school administrators and what they think is needed in order to make schools better to school shootings, then I misunderstood his comments.

[Tarkus]

I swear...like an old married couple...:P