Misc. polling issues with Florida and Michigan...

[buckeyefan78]

Just addin' fuel to the fire. A couple of quick notes before I put up a pretty interesting stat...

1. A Harris voter had Florida #1 and OSU #2.

2. Another Harris voter's website has his "favorite teams" as anyone in the SEC and his "hated teams" as anyone in the Big Ten.

Now that we got that out of the way here is an interesting stat with the coach's poll.

Coach's who put Michigan #2 and Florida #3....

ACC, SEC, Sun Belt, CUSA, and coaches from the "Confederate" parts of the Big East and Big Twelve had it 26-4 in favor of Florida at #2 and UM at #3.

Notre Dame, Big Ten, Pac Ten, MAC, and coaches from the "Union" parts of the Big East and Big Twelve had it dead even: 11-11.

[Dublin Mike]

ACC, SEC, Sun Belt, CUSA, and coaches from the "Confederate" parts of the Big East and Big Twelve had it 26-4 in favor of Florida at #2 and UM at #3.

Notre Dame, Big Ten, Pac Ten, MAC, and coaches from the "Union" parts of the Big East and Big Twelve had it dead even: 11-11.

So in other words, if half the "union" guys hadn't voted for Fla, we wouldn't be having this issue right now. It'd be a dead heat. Maybe you should be *****ing at the guys on your side of the tracks as well.

78, why are you hating this so much? If I remember correctly, you weren't wanting a rematch. If USC had beaten UCLA and remained ahead of Michigan (keep in mind, they jumped them after the Notre Dame victory) would this still be an issue?

[HibachiDG]

I think USC beating UCLA would have led to REAL controversy. Not this whiny Michigan/Big Ten stuff. I'm actually embarassed today to support Big Ten teams.

[buckeyefan78]

Easy Mike.

My job is just to point out the bullsh**. Your job is to point out the bullsh**. Our collective jobs is to point the bullsh** from each other.

Point here is that one of the many flaws of the coach's poll is that you have regional bias. I used a good stat (IMO) to illustrate it. If it was Michigan getting #2 and Florida #3 we could have easily put this baby up and shown it the other way...with Yankee bias.

The SEC and ACC were a combined 14-0 in favor of Florida over Michigan in the coach's poll. The Big Ten was 4-1 in favor of Michigan (Zook went Dixie...traitor...lol). There just happen to be more southerners who have votes...that's all.

Yeah, I didn't want a rematch. If I had my way we'd be in Pasadena playin' USC. If you guys wanna say you're #1 (Gators that is) I wouldn't care. Nothing will stop the bias, the bullsh**, and the reputations (whatever they may be...SEC is always superior, the Big Ten hits more, the SEC has more speed). Even after OSU beat Miami in the 02 Fiesta, several publications had the 01 Miami team better than the 02 Buckeyes.

Why compete on any level if everything stays the same anyway...regardless of results?

[DETMURDS]

All I can really say is, "put an asterisk next to this championship game" I see it as a boring OSU blowout over Florida.

You fellas all know too much how I feel on how Michigan was treated.

[Dublin Mike]

If you guys wanna say you're #1 (Gators that is)

You realize the next time you say "you're" and Gators, meaning including me with them, you realize I must kill you, right? :D

78, you know as well as I do we are always, and I do mean ALWAYS, going to disagree on this. So let's just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that. :)

[boston_aloha]

Yeah, and Mich blowing out USC. Man, I just wish they would go to a play-off system (like the NFL's). How cool would this be:
1. Ohio St. (1st round bye)
2. Florida (1st round bye)
3. Mich
4, 5, 6's seeds: LSU, Louisville, USC, Oak (you get the idea)

[HibachiDG]

I know the Raiders are an NFL team, but I do not see Oak getting a 6 seed in a college playoff.

[buckeyefan78]

You realize the next time you say "you're" and Gators, meaning including me with them, you realize I must kill you, right? :D

78, you know as well as I do we are always, and I do mean ALWAYS, going to disagree on this. So let's just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that. :)

Fair enough Mike. I think I'm doin' a good job in bein' fair though. I just put up a Tressel thread I'd love to hear your thoughts on. I don't have the verdict in on that one.

In any event, you know I roast anyone and everyone so it ain't a big deal. I hate everything...remember? :lol:

[themush]

In the tradition of beating a dead horse:

Michigan loss the last game of thier regular season.

Michigan didn't win thier Conference.

For the sake of arguement: If Auburn doesn't lose a game this year and Florida's only loss is to Auburn, and at the end of the year Florida is ranked #2 would anyone have a problem with a "rematch" of Auburn/ Florida in the National Championship Game?

Before anyone gets started say OSU and Michigan aren't in the picture.

[boston_aloha]

I know the Raiders are an NFL team, but I do not see Oak getting a 6 seed in a college playoff.
LOL Whoops, I meant Oklahoma

[DETMURDS]

In the tradition of beating a dead horse:

Michigan loss the last game of thier regular season.

Michigan didn't win thier Conference.

For the sake of arguement: If Auburn doesn't lose a game this year and Florida's only loss is to Auburn, and at the end of the year Florida is ranked #2 would anyone have a problem with a "rematch" of Auburn/ Florida in the National Championship Game?

Before anyone gets started say OSU and Michigan aren't in the picture.


Ok, in saying that, Wisconsin only lost to Michigan, what if that didn't happen? They would for sure be in this National Championship game!

You must have been watching ESPN, a lot of noise and debate there as well! And rightfully so!

[doublee]

Okay, here is my main problem with Florida jumping Michigan. If they did not want a re-match for the National Championship then they should have voted Michigan 4th behind USC and then Florida two weeks ago. By doing so at least now you have an air of legitimacy with Florida against OSU in the Championship Game.

Now, all we have is a game that on the surface appears to be a matchup set up because enough people in the media and on talk radio complained loud enough to sway the pollsters votes. Instead of a matchup of who they really think are the two best teams we have a matchup formed in the court of public opinion.

I am also tired of hearing who Wisconsin lost to. Who did they beat? Nobody they have 0 wins against a team currently ranked in the Top 25 of the BCS standings and Michigan is the only currently ranked team they played all year. I am not so sure that if Wisconsin were unbeaten they would be in the National Championship game as I doubt that beating Michigan puts their comp rating high enough to get into the top 2 if they were unbeaten.

[Anthony]

Wonder how many voters were swayed by the fact that Florida finished a half-game ahead of Michigan - 12-1 to Michigan's 11-1?

This whole situation lends merit to the idea of changing the overtime procedures to allow an occasional tie game: If one of the two teams had just the one loss while the other had a loss and a tie, none of us would have even been having this discussion.

What's wrong with a 10-minute, non-sudden-death overtime period, with the game ending in a tie of it's still tied after the 10 minutes? In conference championship and bowl games they could always do the same thing they do now if the game is still tied after the extra 10 minutes.

[boston_aloha]

Yeah, what' the deal with that? Mich didn't play the last two weeks and its the whole "out of sight, out of moind" thing.
Anthony - I'm actually agrreeng with you!! Ha ha... but seriously, thats not a bad idea.

[DETMURDS]

Okay, here is my main problem with Florida jumping Michigan. If they did not want a re-match for the National Championship then they should have voted Michigan 4th behind USC and then Florida two weeks ago. By doing so at least now you have an air of legitimacy with Florida against OSU in the Championship Game.

Now, all we have is a game that on the surface appears to be a matchup set up because enough people in the media and on talk radio complained loud enough to sway the pollsters votes. Instead of a matchup of who they really think are the two best teams we have a matchup formed in the court of public opinion.

I am also tired of hearing who Wisconsin lost to. Who did they beat? Nobody they have 0 wins against a team currently ranked in the Top 25 of the BCS standings and Michigan is the only currently ranked team they played all year. I am not so sure that if Wisconsin were unbeaten they would be in the National Championship game as I doubt that beating Michigan puts their comp rating high enough to get into the top 2 if they were unbeaten.

I agree with you except I don't know about your Wisconsin thoughts,...I mean, they would have been Co-Big 10 Champs, undefeated, and would have beaten a top Michigan team at the time as well. That would have lowered the value of OSU beating MI too. Wisconsin could have cried like Florida did, and it might just have worked them into the National Championship game?
It is frustrating since they were still talking about Notre Dame going to the championship prior to meeting USC even after Michigan slaughtered them in front of thier families, and peers at ND.:lol: So, nothing can make any sense to any of us really, stupid things did happen in the polls, ...thats my point.
I don't like Wisconsin, not at all!!
It seems like some of you think it is better to lose a game against weak/overrated teams like Oregon State, UCLA, or Auburn.

Just put an asterisk next to this season in the record books, it is invalid anyhow!

[Richard the Lionheart]

If Ohio State beats Florida, no asterisk is necessary...Oh wait...even if Florida wins one still isn't needed. In fifteen years no one will remember this Michigan team anyway. They go and join the hundred other second place Big Ten teams throughout history. Before the BCS you all complain about, they wouldn't have even gotten a second thought. This group of Michigan players lost three straight games to Ohio State...and they deserve something??

[DETMURDS]

If Ohio State beats Florida, no asterisk is necessary...Oh wait...even if Florida wins one still isn't needed. In fifteen years no one will remember this Michigan team anyway. They go and join the hundred other second place Big Ten teams throughout history. Before the BCS you all complain about, they wouldn't have even gotten a second thought. This group of Michigan players lost three straight games to Ohio State...and they deserve something??

I respect your opinion. I'll leave it at that.

[doublee]

I agree with you except I don't know about your Wisconsin thoughts,...I mean, they would have been Co-Big 10 Champs, undefeated, and would have beaten a top Michigan team at the time as well. That would have lowered the value of OSU beating MI too. Wisconsin could have cried like Florida did, and it might just have worked them into the National Championship game?
It is frustrating since they were still talking about Notre Dame going to the championship prior to meeting USC even after Michigan slaughtered them in front of thier families, and peers at ND.:lol: So, nothing can make any sense to any of us really, stupid things did happen in the polls, ...thats my point.
I don't like Wisconsin, not at all!!
It seems like some of you think it is better to lose a game against weak/overrated teams like Oregon State, UCLA, or Auburn.

Just put an asterisk next to this season in the record books, it is invalid anyhow!

My point is that Wisconsin's schedule was so weak that even if they had beaten Michigan their comp ranking may not have been strong enough to land them at number two. There were a few two-loss teams that had better comp rankings than a one-loss Wisconsin team did.

[DETMURDS]

My point is that Wisconsin's schedule was so weak that even if they had beaten Michigan their comp ranking may not have been strong enough to land them at number two. There were a few two-loss teams that had better comp rankings than a one-loss Wisconsin team did.

True, and in the same nature I wonder this, (and not actually directed to you doublee) "why does many think that Michigan had to win the conference to be the 2nd best team in the nation?"

I'm done with it now, so I'm not saying the same thing over and over.

[bama4256]

Sorry wrong room. Sorry! Embarrassing.

[HibachiDG]

I think Jason Schmidt voted Boise St #2

[DETMURDS]

I think Jason Schmidt voted Boise St #2


Funny stuff! ...I'm talking about Boise State, not Jason Schmidt:lol:

[Anthony]

My point is that Wisconsin's schedule was so weak that even if they had beaten Michigan their comp ranking may not have been strong enough to land them at number two. There were a few two-loss teams that had better comp rankings than a one-loss Wisconsin team did.


Not disagreeing, but Wisconsin didn't even play Ohio State this year - a situation that could be easily cleaned up if Notre Dame joined the Big Ten and they formed two divisions (everybody in the same division playing each other every year).

Don't know why that didn't happen a long time ago, given that Notre Dame is right in the Big Ten's backyard and seems to play half the Big Ten every year as matters stand.

[HibachiDG]

Don't know why that didn't happen a long time ago, given that Notre Dame is right in the Big Ten's backyard and seems to play half the Big Ten every year as matters stand.

The best things in life are free
But you can keep 'em for the birds and bees

Now give me money, that's what I want...that's what I want,
(That's what I want) That's what I want (That's what I want) yeah,
That's what I want.

[doublee]

True, and in the same nature I wonder this, (and not actually directed to you doublee) "why does many think that Michigan had to win the conference to be the 2nd best team in the nation?"

I'm done with it now, so I'm not saying the same thing over and over.

Actually, I think it has more to do with the notion that a team should have to be a conference champ to play for the national title, especially since that team already lost to the other team in the title game. I have to say I agree, for the most part with that notion. Michigan had its shot at knocking off OSU and could not get it done so now it is Florida's turn to get a crack at them.

Anthony, Notre Dame will never join a conference in football as long as NBC is paying them something like $10 mil a year for the exclusive broadcast rights to all of their home games. Notre Dame would lose TV revenue money if they joined a conference for football. Most schools in BCS conferences are making around 4/5 million per year from TV contracts and then whatever bowl money comes in based on how the conference divvy that up. Notre Dame won't have to share its Sugar Bowl money with anybody and doesn't have to share its NBC money with anyone. All told they will easily make 25-30 mil in cash this year from TV revenues and they don't have to put it in a pot to share with fellow conference schools.

[buckeyefan78]

I promise to behave on this one :D but that's something that really confuses me when we talk about all this BCS junk: winning your conference.

It's pretty hypocritical if you ask me. Why do conferences matter if you're playing for a national championship? You can't preserve the tradition of the conferences and have a national champion at the same time if it truly is a national champion due to the way all the conferences are designed.

In essence you're punishing Michigan for the fact Ann Arbor is geographically closer to Columbus than Gainesville is. It's why they went away from automatic conference tie-ins to bowls. Teams like Penn State in 94 got punished due to a contract signed by a few suits in Chicago.

Makes no sense...if you believe in the idea of a national champion...which I don't. :P

[DETMURDS]

I promise to behave on this one :D but that's something that really confuses me when we talk about all this BCS junk: winning your conference.

It's pretty hypocritical if you ask me. Why do conferences matter if you're playing for a national championship? You can't preserve the tradition of the conferences and have a national champion at the same time if it truly is a national champion due to the way all the conferences are designed.

In essence you're punishing Michigan for the fact Ann Arbor is geographically closer to Columbus than Gainesville is. It's why they went away from automatic conference tie-ins to bowls. Teams like Penn State in 94 got punished due to a contract signed by a few suits in Chicago.

Makes no sense...if you believe in the idea of a national champion...which I don't. :P

BANG ON! Exactly! But a National Champion can be determined if the thought process was only about which teams are the best two!

I'll say it again, Ohio State will crush Florida,...everyone will say it was a mistake when it is all said and done. I can't wait for it to happen!

Doublee, as for Notre Dame,...if you say a team needs to win a conference, then the Irish should never be allowed in a BCS Championship either. Conferences championships by the rule are out the window when the NAT Championship goes down, and considered,.....what a goof they made this time. ...... It should always be about the top two teams! Tom Brady knows!

[coachJ]

So you should be able to play for the national championship even though you couldnt be the champion of your own conference? Makes sense to me....

[DETMURDS]

So you should be able to play for the national championship even though you couldnt be the champion of your own conference? Makes sense to me....

I only ask is it IMPOSSIBLE for the two best teams to be in the same conference?
Conferences are for cost reasons more than anything.

[Anthony]

The best things in life are free
But you can keep 'em for the birds and bees

Now give me money, that's what I want...that's what I want,
(That's what I want) That's what I want (That's what I want) yeah,
That's what I want.


You're showing your real age, dude ... I hope you know that! :lol:

[coachJ]

I only ask is it IMPOSSIBLE for the two best teams to be in the same conference?
Conferences are for cost reasons more than anything.

No its not impossible for the 2 best teams to be in the same conference. However, if we are playing for the NATIONAL title, why should someone within the same conference get a SECOND chance at beating someone they couldnt beat the first time? Sure that might be fine for the conference, but if you want to find out if this is the best team in the nation, then you take the best conference champion out there and put them against the number 1 team.

[buckeyefan78]

No its not impossible for the 2 best teams to be in the same conference. However, if we are playing for the NATIONAL title, why should someone within the same conference get a SECOND chance at beating someone they couldnt beat the first time? Sure that might be fine for the conference, but if you want to find out if this is the best team in the nation, then you take the best conference champion out there and put them against the number 1 team.

Why should someone who is in the same conference get a second chance at beating someone they couldn't beat the first time?

Well...cuz if they are the 2nd best team in the country they deserve that chance over the 3rd best team in the country.

Again, you can't have it both ways. It's either a traditionalist's world or the new school. The new school wants to use tradition (in the form of having conferences) as a measuring stick in determining their MNC. When you go away from the tradition, you lose all proper ownership rights over it.

[Anthony]

No its not impossible for the 2 best teams to be in the same conference. However, if we are playing for the NATIONAL title, why should someone within the same conference get a SECOND chance at beating someone they couldnt beat the first time? Sure that might be fine for the conference, but if you want to find out if this is the best team in the nation, then you take the best conference champion out there and put them against the number 1 team.



But what about a case where two teams not in the same conference had played each other during the regular season? Or if two teams in the same conference did not meet, as is possible in the Big Ten? (Indeed, Ohio State and Wisconsin had no head-to-head game this season).

The permutations are endless - and irrelevant to what is really the central question: Should there be a bona-fide playoff system in major college football?

I say yes, yes, a thousand times yes!