President Ford has Passed away

[The Pirate Bob]

President Gerald Ford has passed away. May he rest in peace. He was a good man who took over the presidency at one of the most trying and down times our nation has ever known. He was an honorable person who came to the aid of our country in a time of deep embarrasment and disgrace.

I salute you, our 38th President. Thank you for serving us well.

[themush]

Thanks Gerry and may God bless. And to those who want to make this a political or religious debate don't. Let him rest in peace. Thanks again Gerry.

[catman]

He was a man that I respected a lot. He came into the White House at a very bad time in our history, and did a pretty good job, all things considered.
May he rest in peace.

[Peter North]

Gerald Ford screwed the pooch big time by appointing liberal goofball John Paul Stevens to the Supreme Court. 31 yrs later Stevens is still unfortunatly among the living, and over the years numerous important Supreme Court rulings have come down on the left side by 5-4 margins, thanks to Ford's foolish appointment.

Great job, Gerry. :rolleyes:

Ford's lasting legacy is therefore that of a phony conservative, much like the clown we currently have in office.

[Jaguar Rick]

I think in retrospect, Pres. Ford did the right thing in pardoning Nixon. At the time it seemed wrong, but he was right, it started the healing process. I think Ford was an honorable man. May his memory not be clouded with dug-up political mud.

[IntheNet]

Not many politicians can earn the term "honest man" but I believe President Ford may be the exception... he did the right thing for the country by pardoning Richard Nixon yet it was suicide for his career. He healed the Watergate open sore and in turn, disappeared into a political sinkhole from which he could not escape. History will be kind toward Gerald Ford and it should be. He was an honest man.

[buckeyefan78]

And to those who want to make this a political or religious debate don't. Let him rest in peace.

So much for bein' the voice of reason mush. :lol:

If you wanna come in and teach a few hours a day I'll give ya the floor. You'll eventually get used to this type of behavior. :thumbup:

[Tarkus]

So much for bein' the voice of reason mush. :lol:

If you wanna come in and teach a few hours a day I'll give ya the floor. You'll eventually get used to this type of behavior. :thumbup:

:P

Yea, nice try, Mush, but ya know, some girls just wanna have fun...

RIP President Ford.

[Marc]

Watch this and laugh: http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/27/dana-carvey-announces-the-death-of-gerald-ford/

RIP, President Ford.

[Ravana]

I think in retrospect, Pres. Ford did the right thing in pardoning Nixon. At the time it seemed wrong, but he was right, it started the healing process. I think Ford was an honorable man. May his memory not be clouded with dug-up political mud.

I'm with Rick. Had he not done so, the nation would've been dragged through months, if not years, of trials and muckraking—the kind that would've made the Watergate investigation look sedate by comparison. Ford spared us that, at the price of his political career. He was better than he ever had a chance to be. Much better... for a man who never wanted to be President in the first place.

Only indirectly related to the above:
Here's a thought to keep you warm at night—concerning the "not dragging the nation through political trials" category. Remember the 2000 election? (Like we could forget....) When Gore sued over the Florida results? Almost happened to us once before... the alreadly largely-Democratic districts around Chicago had reported some suspiciously favorable numbers for the Democratic candidate for President; even a small swing in the Republicans' favors would have reversed the state's results... and the election outcome. And Chicago, at the time, was well-noted for electoral corruption, too... anyone else remember the name "Daley"? The Republican candidate's advisors were all urging him to take the results to court. He refused. Said he was unwilling to drag the nation into such a divisive situation as a challenged election result would produce. Instead, he conceded... an honorable, gentlemanly and classy thing to do.

And I, had I been Al Gore, would have had to think really hard about doing something that showed that I had less class than Richard Nixon. Yup—that was the 1960 election, when Kennedy won by one of the narrowest margins in history. Good one, Al.... :rolleyes:

Maybe Ford thought Nixon was owed one after that.

[catman]

Maybe he was owed one after that. I did not like Richard Nixon, but knew about the 1960 results and his reaction to them. The people spoke back then and he listened. Mr. Gore would have been wise to learn from this and do the same thing.
Back to Gerald Ford. He was one of the few Presidents that could say that he played legitimate college football. He was a very good athlete, likely the best to ever hold the office. He had an opportunity to play in the NFL, but chose to go to law school instead. Who knows what he would have done had he made the other choice.
He was one that always listened to both sides of the story before making his mind up, but once he did so, he was a tenacious fighter for that cause.
As I said, I respected him a lot and appreciated his sacrifice for the good of the nation while he was in office. He was never elected to national office and never really wanted to be.

[RavenPoe]

I'm with Rick. Had he not done so, the nation would've been dragged through months, if not years, of trials and muckraking—the kind that would've made the Watergate investigation look sedate by comparison. Ford spared us that, at the price of his political career. He was better than he ever had a chance to be. Much better... for a man who never wanted to be President in the first place.

Ravana,

Did someone twist his arm to accept the nomination for Vice-President?

He should have started the healing by ordering an immediate investigation. It was IMPERATIVE that we show the nation and all future generations that the President in NOT above the law. Nixon should have been brought up on charges. He abused the power of the oval office for personal political gain. He thought he was above the law. The nation needed to know that he wasn't. We still haven't healed from that debacle.

[Ravana]

The nation did know... I don't think there was any question about that.

Nor do I think we would've "healed" any better with an investigation... the damage had been done. We haven't trusted our politicians since. Probably, we never should have... but look where it's gotten us. We can't have a prominent politician—from either party—in office without some sort of investigation concerning him/her.

Did someone arm-twist Ford into accepting the VP position? Actually, yes. They were looking hard for someone "clean" after Agnew's resignation... same reason we got Rockefeller under Ford: he was considered the least likely person in the country to be corruptable... or at least bribable. But what I meant by "never wanted to be President" was that he never displayed any particular ambition to seek that office. Just about anybody would accept the chance, if it was dropped in their lap—certainly, I imagine any career politician would—but not everybody is willing to go through what it takes to pursue it.

I don't have any argument that the President shouldn't be above the law... or that we should've demonstrated this. Certainly, if this were to be considered a precedent, it worked out well for Clinton. I'm just not sure that there was anything to be gained from hauling Nixon into court: what he'd done had already been "outed," he was out of office—unlike other persons who've done the same—and his career, reputation and arguably his life had been ruined. I think it was pretty clear that he wasn't "above the law"—it would've brought him down, had he not resigned. In fact, his resignation was probably for the same reasons he didn't contest the 1960 election: he was trying to avoid dragging the nation through what would inevitably been a divisive, partisan battle over what should be done with him. Instead, he allowed the people of the time to avoid that kind of partisan bickering... allowed the congress to avoid having to choose between "party loyalty" and what was right—a choice others have made recently, and often incorrectly. He put the needs of the country ahead of his own desires and ambitions... and stepped aside, got out of the way, so that the nation could go about its business. How much could his successors have accomplished, what other issues would have received any attention, much less needed emphasis, if the whole country was focused on his trial? (Think about all that Carter couldn't accomplish because of the hostage crisis. A trial would've paralyzed the government... no matter who was in charge.)

Personally, I would have liked to see Nixon held more responsible for his actions. However, I can't argue but that what Nixon and Ford did was better for the nation—in terms of allowing it to get on with what was important: the business of the people.

Those choices deserve recognition, even if you don't think they were the right ones. Subsequent office-holders would do well to reflect upon them... both to know that the law will catch up with them if they abuse it (how many pardons have been issued in similar cases since then?), and to realize that the country is more important than the individual. Though it's probably too much to hope that any of today's politicians will ever think that way....

[catman]

Ravana,

Did someone twist his arm to accept the nomination for Vice-President?

He should have started the healing by ordering an immediate investigation. It was IMPERATIVE that we show the nation and all future generations that the President in NOT above the law. Nixon should have been brought up on charges. He abused the power of the oval office for personal political gain. He thought he was above the law. The nation needed to know that he wasn't. We still haven't healed from that debacle.
RavenPoe, Gerald Ford was appointed to the Vice Presidency after Spiro Agnew resigned. For a short time, there was no Vice President, therefore no direct line of succession to the Presidency.
I do agree that the President is not above the law and both parties are guilty of abusing this over the past few decades.
As I said, I did not like Richard Nixon. He was a corrupt, paranoid man that was very power-hungry. He abused his office badly. He likely was guilty of some level of criminal activity, but what purpose would bringing him to trial have served? It would have been a circus that could have shut the Government down for a long time at a time when we needed to be vigilant. Our opposition was very, very strong, if you remember.
All things considered, Gerald Ford did what he felt he needed to to end the scandalous nature of our Government and bring about the healing that we needed. If people think we have not healed yet, I believe the problem lies in the candidates that have been nominated to run for offices since then. Better candidates bring cleaner races.

[RavenPoe]

Yep, and then he ran for presidency against Carter. That's a pretty odd maneuver for someone who DOESN'T want to be president.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Ford better than any other republican president since Teddy.

There is always a line of succession. If there's no VP it's simply skipped to the speaker of the house.

Just to be clear, President Clinton conducted military operations while he was being impeached. Nixon was already out of office. Him being brought up on charges would not have affected the government in the least. That's just a cop out. Nixon is still a hero to the libertarians, that's obvious.

I'm glad I said I liked Ford. Here's an interesting tidbit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/27/AR2006122701558.html

Ravana,

President Clinton was impeached. Regardless of what he did, there's no comparison to Nixon. The precedents set by Nixon were attempting to fire people that weren't under the authority of the oval office and appointing one man as both Secretary of State and National Security Adviser; the single biggest conflict of interest in the executive branch ever. I defy you to show me where Clinton used those precedents.

[Ravana]

Clinton didn't attempt to fire people who weren't under his direct authority? If he didn't, it was only a matter of semantics... he got someone else to do it for him.

When I said that Nixon served as a precedent, what I meant was that a Chief Executive escaped punishment for his wrongdoings... what you were complaining about. Clinton was impeached, yes... but not removed. Had Nixon remained in office, he certainly would've been impeached and likely would've been removed—though, again, I also wouldn't have been surprised if a partisan block prevented this... which would've resulted in less damage to his image than resigning as he did.

Yes, Ford ran against Carter; he was an encumbent, after all. He probably felt doing so was the best chance his party had of maintaining any hold on power at all—though he should've known better. I still suspect he would've gladly handed the reins over to someone else and gone back to the Senate. As for filling the VP role, he probably (1) never expected to get elevated and (2) as mentioned, was facing a lot of pressure to do so; again, he might've known that any other candidate would've created a worse situation. Though, as I said, most people would not decline the offer if it were dropped in their laps.

And of course Nixon's being brought up on charges would've affected the government. How wide do you think that investigation would've stretched? How many people would've been dragged through the muck—deservingly or otherwise? And how much would it have distracted the government from doing its business... and more importantly, distracted the public? And the media? Who in turn put pressure on the government, etc.

I agree that SecState and NSA shouldn't be combined. But that's the President's call... unless and until we pass a law that says otherwise. He could accomplish the same thing just by leaving the NSA post unfilled... for that matter, it really wouldn't have mattered, as far as the advice he was receiving was concerned: it's not like Kissinger was ever reticent to put his two bits in on any subject... the only real problem there is the amount of time the officeholder could devote to each, and that I do see as a problem.

As for what Clinton did that was "wrong," I'd like to articulate the precise issue—something I'm sure you know, Poe, but which most people seem to have overlooked (in what was possibly the most successful distraction campaign ever run by anyone in government, and one in which the media cooperated fully). My problem with Clinton wasn't the sex part—I don't care what he sticks his dick in, as long as it's legal and consenting. My problem was using the power of his office to suborn to perjury, and lying under oath in a court of law... the things he was actually impeached on. Those may seem "minor," stated that way... but not if you look at it this way:

Clinton attempted to subvert the separation of powers between the Executive and Judicial branches of government, powers that were separated—and should remain separated—for very good reasons. And in doing so, he also violated his oath of office to uphold the Constitution, since that's where the separation of powers is articulated.

Is that enough to remove someone from office? In my mind, yes. Because if he isn't going to respect the power of the courts, then he is putting himself above the law... and if he isn't removed from office for it, then he's getting away with it, too. Which he did. What kind of message would that send—to him, or to anyone in America? What would a less moral individual have done, if given concrete evidence that he could get away with defying the law—and the courts that exist to enforce it? (I'm not going to assess how moral he was or wasn't, just acknowledging that he didn't follow up on this.) (The investigation surrounding Clinton produced at least one bad precedent even while it was still going on, by the way: allowing him to testify by videotape allowed Bill Gates to escape cross-examination in the same way, by citing that as a precedent. Which shouldn't have been allowed, since the two jobs are in no way similar... but it was.)

I'm not arguing that Clinton was worse than Nixon, or that he committed greater crimes. I'm just trying to lay out what he did do... since so few people seem to be clear on that. And, as with Nixon, he was not punished for his crimes. That's where I can see Nixon—or, rather, the events surrounding him, and his not going to trial in particular—having been a bad precedent. I still think that a trial wouldn't have done the country any good, and may have done it harm... but this is the price we paid for not pursuing that action.

[RavenPoe]

Ravana,

I'm sure you read on the other boards what I've already said about the Clinton impeachment. In case you haven't, at the time I was like every other democrat. I was outraged at the notion. In hindsight, it's one of the few things that the modern republican party has gotten right. He needed to be impeached. Removing him from office would have been counter-productive to the nation.

We survived everything that happened with President Clinton. He was impeached while military operations were happening. Do you really think that bringing Nixon up on charges would have hurt our country more? Let's not forget that the only thing that Clinton did was lie about a blow job. I hate to be that blunt but a fact is a fact.

The Whitewater investigation was a sham and anyone with any knowledge of real estate would understand that there was never anything that could have been accomplished from this stupid and wasteful endeavor. 10 million of your dollars! If you're really Libertarian, that should make you want to puke. You do realize that it was Hillary being investigated the whole time in the hope that they could find some wrongdoing from Bill. 10 million of your dollars spent on this bull****.

I don't think that there's any way that you can justify comparing Clinton to Nixon. President Clinton was impeached as he should have been. He ran the government the whole time without incident. That alone should garner him the title of greatest modern President. Not to mention all that he did before that time.

[IntheNet]

I must say that the hypocrisy of the liberal media in regard to the passing of President Gerald Ford is just about too much to take... I recall when Ford pardoned President Nixon the media were out for blood... particularly The Washington Post. Now it is falling over itself in praise...

I am glad to see the reversal but poor President Ford was hounded out of office and was unsuccessful running for election due primarily to the negative press he received, again, due to The Washington Post. How can they heap such hypocrisy upon America?

:redhot:

[BigBuddhaPup]

I must say that the hypocrisy of the liberal media in regard to the passing of President Gerald Ford is just about too much to take... I recall when Ford pardoned President Nixon the media were out for blood... particularly The Washington Post. Now it is falling over itself in praise...

I am glad to see the reversal but poor President Ford was hounded out of office and was unsuccessful running for election due primarily to the negative press he received, again, due to The Washington Post. How can they heap such hypocrisy upon America?

:redhot:

I remember it was pretty universal condemnation of Nixon on both sides of the divide... Ford about lost his own parties nomination because of the pardon, and definitely lost the election because of it...

When an US president dies, the politics are laid to the side... even when Nixon died, the Watergate was mentioned but not politicized, just like Ford is now, they mentioned the pardon, but left it at that... I think all the networks are handling it well...

[RavenPoe]

Ford was wrongly condemned for the Vietnam failure that he had nothing to do with. Pardoning Nixon was just plain stupid, then and now. He was also attacked by the republican party and received death threats for having Rockefeller on his ticket. He was doomed from day one.