Response to Raven Poe's response in my thread in the politics forum

[York Hunt]

Dude:

Roosevelt's Democratic Party is NOTHING like the one we see today.

I used to be a Dem when I was younger. Sorry to say the party is NOTHING like they were.


Memo: The Republicans resemble the Dems of FDR's era much more than the Dems now do.

You claim that I'm "talking to intelligent people here"

If you can't even see that, you don't know your history at all.

The GOP, in general is filled with big government liberals. The Democrats are filled with identity group panderers and reverse racists like the Black Caucus.

You're not very informed, in my estimation. Please do some homework before you open your piehole with errouneous info.

thanks in advance, chief

[Peter North]

You are correct of course, Mr Hunt. Everything has shifted strongly left over the past generation-or-so. So much so that the dems of today are controlled by some very strange and marginal characters. Extremely out of touch with common sense, decency, and reality.

You know, I also noticed that all the libs here answered YES to the "legalization of drugs" survey question.

That answers a lot.

[CKFresh]

You are correct of course, Mr Hunt. Everything has shifted strongly left over the past generation-or-so. So much so that the dems of today are controlled by some very strange and marginal characters. Extremely out of touch with common sense, decency, and reality.

You know, I also noticed that all the libs here answered YES to the "legalization of drugs" survey question.

That answers a lot.

What exactly does that say? That we feel individuals should be able to chose what they put in their bodies? That maybe drugs aren't all that bad. Maybe we should let people chose which drugs they want to take instead of leading corporations deciding which drugs we take depending on what drugs make them money. Yeah, the guy smoking pot once a week because it helps relax him is a criminal right? WHy should we fill or jails with non-violent pot heads whose only crime is eating too much chocolate?

[York Hunt]

Of course drug addicts support a party that will say "hey, it's okay. take drugs. personal fulfillment, man! do anything! shoot rat poison if it makes you happy! You're allowed to be a f-up your whole life because the system is unfair anyway! You shouldn't have to be respectable! It's all about what YOU want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Most people who act like self loathing scumbags will support the Dems because it's safer for their egos and self of steam.

[CKFresh]

Yeah that's it York. It has nothing to do witht he idea that grown adults should be able to chose what is best for them. It's all about "self loathing scumbags" just wanting to get hopped up. Ask your buddy Rush Limbaugh about drugs. Oh yeah, his are ok because the government SAYS they are ok. Do you have any idea what Oxyconton is? Heroin in a pill. BUt it's legal so no big deal. Do you just buy into everything the government and your 3rd grade teacher tell you? Pot is bad, pills good. The lack of critical thinking on the part of conservatives is mind blowing.

[Peter North]

I've never met a habitual drug user who had self esteem. I'm sure I'd say the same about Rush. He's a loser.

Fresh, every time you hit the bong you're not only dropping your self esteem, but you're supporting vicious drug lord murderers. But that is not on your mind, is it? You just want to buzzzzz it up.

Hey, these drugs that you champion free access to don't grow on trees in a florida orange grove. No, behind them is a grotesque trail of slaughter, money, and ugliness.

The gov needs to FIGHT that, not embrace that.

[CKFresh]

I've never met a habitual drug user who had self esteem. I'm sure I'd say the same about Rush. He's a loser.

Fresh, every time you hit the bong you're not only dropping your self esteem, but you're supporting vicious drug lord murderers. But that is not on your mind, is it? You just want to buzzzzz it up.

Hey, these drugs that you champion free access to don't grow on trees in a florida orange grove. No, behind them is a grotesque trail of slaughter, money, and ugliness.

The gov needs to FIGHT that, not embrace that.

Thank you peter for making my point. THAT IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO MAKE IT LEGAL. That way, instead of supporting some "murderer" I could be supporting an American company that employs millionjs of farmers and workers. A company that is taxed and gives back to the system. People are going to smoke pot until the end of time. WOuld you rather honest Americans profit from that or drug lords? If you think I'm wrong, take a look at how the war on drugs is working out. We pump more money into it, and more people are using. Time to consider another plan.

[CKFresh]

Yeah, I guess John Lennon or any other musician had "low self esteem." They all smoke pot. That was the most ridiculous statement you have ever made.

[BigBuddhaPup]

Dude:

Roosevelt's Democratic Party is NOTHING like the one we see today.

I used to be a Dem when I was younger. Sorry to say the party is NOTHING like they were.


Memo: The Republicans resemble the Dems of FDR's era much more than the Dems now do.

You claim that I'm "talking to intelligent people here"

If you can't even see that, you don't know your history at all.

The GOP, in general is filled with big government liberals. The Democrats are filled with identity group panderers and reverse racists like the Black Caucus.

You're not very informed, in my estimation. Please do some homework before you open your piehole with errouneous info.

thanks in advance, chief



Our gov't in its totality is so far right in a historical premise... all one has to do is to compare the politics of Nixon of the early 70's to see how far our country has swung to the right... Nixon would be a called a socialist in today's climate, while he was considered right center in office... Goldwater would be a democrat, because libertarianism has no room in the GOP anymore...

All politicans today are panderers, they whore for the money to be elected... our system is set up for corporations/lobbyists... we need to take the money out of elective politics...

Republicans do not reflect FDR's administration... FDR had a plan, he didn't make sell our country out to the wealthiest, he didn't go to war until it was necessary... the only thing they have in common is they both created new gov't agencies, FDR's agencies were very helpful, GW's agencies were ineffective with huge pork for the wealthy once again..

The reason why I don't slam democrats any, is because they have had absolutely no say in our gov't in the last six years... actually I do have a slam for them, it is that they didn't have the "balls" to stand up for their principles against this administration...they could have said something, stood up, but they backed down more interested in being elected than for what was right...

Democrat party is rutterless... Republican party is clueless...

[Peter North]

John Lennon was a pinko fruitcake who was BORN gifted with great musical talent. Oh yeah, he REALLY had his act together. Yeah, so well that he let a freaky nothing-of-a-chick railroad him into the ruination of his career. He effectively p*ssed his career down the tubes, due in large part to his sick drug habit. He was a loser.

The gov ought not manufacture drugs so that they can be sold to the citizens of the country. What the HELL???

Great country we'll have when everyone is snortin' 'til their brains turn brown. Geez, man.

Well, we're already on the fast track to mass drugging of our society right now, the way half our school kids are misdiagnosed with ADD. Lubed-up kids sittin' in class blasted out of their freaking mind. Thanks much, lefties.

[York Hunt]

Yeah, I guess John Lennon or any other musician had "low self esteem." They all smoke pot. That was the most ridiculous statement you have ever made.

If you're escaping reality with drugs you're usually not coping well.

Whether Lennon had low self esteem or not is something we'll never know.

conservatives and conservative libertarians believe in small government and personal responsibility. socialists and most of the Dem party believe in 9th chances, excuses, and blaming everybody but the individual for his/her actions: ("it was poverty, discrimination, anxiety, low self esteem etc")

What, you believe in personal responsibility? Then you go against what you support.

Most libs are mainly conservative in their views, they just don't know it because going "against the establishment" is romantic to them. They don't want to be "square" or with "the man" even though they actually do believe in many conservative things.

It's called be unaware.

btw, Lennon was a naive commie ******* who made crappy music once the Beatles broke up.

[BigBuddhaPup]

John Lennon was a pinko fruitcake who was BORN gifted with great musical talent. Oh yeah, he REALLY had his act together. Yeah, so well that he let a freaky nothing-of-a-chick railroad him into the ruination of his career. He effectively p*ssed his career down the tubes, due in large part to his sick drug habit. He was a loser.

The gov ought not manufacture drugs so that they can be sold to the citizens of the country. What the HELL???

Great country we'll have when everyone is snortin' 'til their brains turn brown. Geez, man.

Well, we're already on the fast track to mass drugging of our society right now, the way half our school kids are misdiagnosed with ADD. Lubed-up kids sittin' in class blasted out of their freaking mind. Thanks much, lefties.



Lennon was someone who preached love and peace through his music and actions... he was a beautiful individual... he took off 5 years to raise his son in the 70's... then he came back with Double Fantasy... and was shot by an insane Mark David Chapman(who could have used some drugs)... your characterization of John Lennon is far from reality...

Now back to subject at hand.. our gov't should legalize drugs, have strict oversight, tax them heavily, it will save this country tons of money, people with abuse problems could come forward more readily.... the assumption that more people will become addicts if drugs are legalized is wrong...addicts will be addicts regardless of what system is in place..

Hyperbole about ADD or AHAD... it has become more prevalent in society because it was only diagnosed within the last 10 years...

[York Hunt]

Our gov't in its totality is so far right in a historical premise... all one has to do is to compare the politics of Nixon of the early 70's to see how far our country has swung to the right... Nixon would be a called a socialist in today's climate, while he was considered right center in office... Goldwater would be a democrat, because libertarianism has no room in the GOP anymore...

All politicans today are panderers, they whore for the money to be elected... our system is set up for corporations/lobbyists... we need to take the money out of elective politics...

Republicans do not reflect FDR's administration... FDR had a plan, he didn't make sell our country out to the wealthiest, he didn't go to war until it was necessary... the only thing they have in common is they both created new gov't agencies, FDR's agencies were very helpful, GW's agencies were ineffective with huge pork for the wealthy once again..

The reason why I don't slam democrats any, is because they have had absolutely no say in our gov't in the last six years... actually I do have a slam for them, it is that they didn't have the "balls" to stand up for their principles against this administration...they could have said something, stood up, but they backed down more interested in being elected than for what was right...

Democrat party is rutterless... Republican party is clueless...


Why do you even act like the Dems have principles? They don't. They used to, even if it was a serious mistake in theory. Now, they have nothing except:

abortion
gays
illegals
blacks and any other minority
anything else the GOP dislikes

I agree with you that all politician are full of it. That we can agree.

[York Hunt]

Lennon was someone who preached love and peace

So did Hitler. So did Charles Manson.

Now back to subject at hand.. our gov't should legalize drugs, have strict oversight, tax them heavily, it will save this country tons of money, people with abuse problems could come forward more readily.... the assumption that more people will become addicts if drugs are legalized is wrong...addicts will be addicts regardless of what system is in place..

How many addicts are there in many Asian countries?

Virtually zero. Why? Severe penalties.

The government should never condone drug use. It's bad enough alcohol is permitted. Why add more?

I support medicinal marijuana 100%. I've seen it work. My friend's Dad dying of cancer got much relief from Marinol pills.

[BigBuddhaPup]

If you're escaping reality with drugs you're usually not coping well.

Whether Lennon had low self esteem or not is something we'll never know.

conservatives and conservative libertarians believe in small government and personal responsibility. socialists and most of the Dem party believe in 9th chances, excuses, and blaming everybody but the individual for his/her actions: ("it was poverty, discrimination, anxiety, low self esteem etc")

What, you believe in personal responsibility? Then you go against what you support.

Most libs are mainly conservative in their views, they just don't know it because going "against the establishment" is romantic to them. They don't want to be "square" or with "the man" even though they actually do believe in many conservative things.

It's called be unaware.

btw, Lennon was a naive commie ******* who made crappy music once the Beatles broke up.



Do you drink alcohol? Is it wrong as well? Where do you draw the line?

There aren't any conservative libertarians... they are extinct... the religious right killed them all off...

Libertarians would say that the gov't had no right in dictating what we do with our bodies, or what we take into our bodies... the conversative party left the libertarians around 1976...

It is not going against the establishment, it is looking for answers to question and not blindly accepting tradition to be only choice...being openminded(a synonym for liberal)...

BTW.. Lennon was a socialist... and he did some fantastic music after the Beatles...

Power to the People
Working Class Hero
Love
God
Mother
Imagine
Jealous Guy
Mind Games
Whatever Gets You Through the Night
#9 Dream
(Just Like)Starting Over
Watching the Wheels
Woman

John Lennon was a musical genius to the end of his life...

[York Hunt]

I'm not a Lennon fan.

Socialism cannot work.

Capitalism with a little government regulation is the best way to go.

Do I drink alcohol? Absolutely. Should it be legal? Sure.

Should all drugs be legal in theory? Perhaps. But they aren't and we should keep it that way. It should be discouraged at every turn.

[BigBuddhaPup]

Why do you even act like the Dems have principles? They don't. They used to, even if it was a serious mistake in theory. Now, they have nothing except:

abortion
gays
illegals
blacks and any other minority
anything else the GOP dislikes

I agree with you that all politician are full of it. That we can agree.

Abortion affects 51% of population directly, and the other 49% indirectly... Gays are 1 to 10% of population depending on study... Illegals are 6 million and counting... Minorities are 51%(females)...and/or 30% non-whites... Don't forget the 99.9% of US citizens that didn't get a great tax cut... or 70 percent against the war...or 62 percent that disapproves of GW...

I think our politicans are full of it...I think our system allows them to be full of it... we need to make hard cap spending reforms on elections, we also need to allow better allowances for more parties to be in the election process...

[York Hunt]

Abortion affects 51% of population directly, and the other 49% indirectly...

Abortion affects post menopausal women and the men who screw them, gay men, gay women, and pro lifers? That's interesting. Give it up. Abortion is a fringe issue.


Gays are 1 to 10% of population depending on study... Illegals are 6 million and counting... Minorities are 51%(females)...and/or 30% non-whites... Don't forget the 99.9% of US citizens that didn't get a great tax cut... or 70 percent against the war...or 62 percent that disapproves of GW...

gays are I'd say around 2-3%. Illegals don't vote.

Minorities should be encouraged to assiimilate, not encouraged to hate the system and whitey.

Not sure why you're bringing up the war numbers. How is that relevant to our discussion?

Besides, a leader is put in office to make decisions based on his expertise and judgment, not what the latest opinion polls say.

I think our politicans are full of it...I think our system allows them to be full of it... we need to make hard cap spending reforms on elections, we also need to allow better allowances for more parties to be in the election process...

I agree.

[BigBuddhaPup]

I'm not a Lennon fan.

Socialism cannot work.

Capitalism with a little government regulation is the best way to go.

Do I drink alcohol? Absolutely. Should it be legal? Sure.

Should all drugs be legal in theory? Perhaps. But they aren't and we should keep it that way. It should be discouraged at every turn.


Socialism does work, it is working in this country... socialist ideals are behind many federal programs and reforms...

Our gov't isn't capitalist... it is a federalist republic which is run via a democracy...Federalist ideals can and do run with socialist ideals of a centralized gov't...republic ideals run with more libertarians and state rights' ideals(decentralized)...Our economy is leans towards capitalist ideals...

I don't think any successful gov't runs absolutely one way of goverance or another...

I think the choice in the drug war is: status quo(controlled by crime, and fought by gov't), or legalization(controlled by gov't)...I think we can discourage drugs in the same way we discourge cigarettes for the most part... people know they are bad, they are promoted as bad, but you can use them if you want to...

[BigBuddhaPup]

Abortion affects post menopausal women and the men who screw them, gay men, gay women, and pro lifers? That's interesting. Give it up. Abortion is a fringe issue.




gays are I'd say around 2-3%. Illegals don't vote.

Minorities should be encouraged to assiimilate, not encouraged to hate the system and whitey.

Not sure why you're bringing up the war numbers. How is that relevant to our discussion?

Besides, a leader is put in office to make decisions based on his expertise and judgment, not what the latest opinion polls say.



I agree.



If it is such a fringe issue, why is it that conservatives fight so hard against it, or want to load up the Supreme Court to over turn it?

Doesn't matter if they vote or not, they affect this country... 6 million people tend to have an effect on a country...

Assimlimate...we are borg...*L*.. our diversity is what makes us great... we should educate our citizen better and teach them to think for themselves...

Revelant in why people dislike republicans, this adminstration, etc... that is where the war numbers come in... your notion of just disliking the establishment is misguided, that is what the numbers are for..

Well, we know that to be wrong again... the president was put in office...but it was not on his expertise, judgement or leadership... his actions speak volumes about all his undesirable traits...

[CKFresh]

BBP, these guys are hopeless. They are so limited in their thought process they can't understand the benefits of legalizing drugs. Like I said before, York is incapable of critical thinking. He can only process thoughts that have been drilled into his head over the years. He doesn't challenge anything that is in place. He only wants to restrict what others can do. "you can't take drugs, you can't have an abortion, you can't end your own life, you can't marry someone of the same sex." People like this have no life of their own so they insist on regulating your way of life.

[RavenPoe]

The Democrats have no morals? LMAO Just so you know, the Democratic party is amoral, as every political party should be. Attempting to legislate morality has caused nothing but bad, bad, bad. Remember prohibition? We gave rise to organized crime that still holds a great deal of power to this day. Legalize drugs and you cut their power by a factor of 10.

I'm uninformed Mr. Hunt tells us. Yet he compares socialism to democracy. LMAO again! Democracy is a structure of government, socialism an ideal. It's like comparing the frame of your house to a couch in your living room. You're right, that couch wouldn't provide any structural support for your house. It'd be real tough to sit on the carpentry to watch TV though. Go back to school for a while, you need some political education to discuss these issues intelligently.

Structurally, this government is a federal republic. So was the Soviet Union. So is the Peoples Republic of China. There is not now and never has been any form of democracy in America nor should there be. Next to a Monarchy, Democracy is the most unfair form of government you can have. In a Democracy, citizens propose and vote on legislation. The majority exists to screw the minority. That's why we have a republic and an electoral college.

The USSR and the PRC are one-party systems. We are a two-party system. Structurally, that is the only difference. The rest lies in ideology not structure. Big business vs. big government, free enterprise vs. heavily regulated and government owned and controlled enterprise.

Socialism and capitalism aren't forms of government. And you're claiming that I'm uninformed and uneducated? LMAO for a third time.

It's sad that in order to discuss these things, I have to give a civics lesson. It's kind of symbolic of modern American political apathy.

[CKFresh]

You are right poe.

But read my post above yours. It is useless. This man lacks the ability to think critically.

[York Hunt]

Socialism does work, it is working in this country... socialist ideals are behind many federal programs and reforms...


And the country is going right down the *****ter.

Our gov't isn't capitalist...

Point to me where I said it was.

it is a federalist republic which is run via a democracy...Federalist ideals can and do run with socialist ideals of a centralized gov't...republic ideals run with more libertarians and state rights' ideals(decentralized)...Our economy is leans towards capitalist ideals...

I don't think any successful gov't runs absolutely one way of goverance or another...

Dude, give it a rest. If I want to read the cia world factbook, I'll go to the site.

[/QUOTE]I think the choice in the drug war is: status quo(controlled by crime, and fought by gov't), or legalization(controlled by gov't)...I think we can discourage drugs in the same way we discourge cigarettes for the most part... people know they are bad, they are promoted as bad, but you can use them if you want to...[/QUOTE]

Not so sure.

[York Hunt]

If it is such a fringe issue, why is it that conservatives fight so hard against it, or want to load up the Supreme Court to over turn it?

Because the liberals have made other liberals think "reproductive rights" are part of their heritage and birthright. Therefore, you have all thse people who will never even be pregnant freaking out of their "right" to abort.

Ha ha ha. great move on the libs to protect their "it's all about me, F the consequences" ideology.

Wanna blow some stranger in a club and then have him blast off in your vage unprotected? NO PROBLEM, YOU CAN JUST ABORT LATER IF YOU GET KNOCKED UP!

What a joke.

Doesn't matter if they vote or not, they affect this country... 6 million people tend to have an effect on a country...

Obviously, look at teh GAYS. There's even less of them and look at all the pull they have with the libs.

Assimlimate...we are borg...*L*.. our diversity is what makes us great... we should educate our citizen better and teach them to think for themselves...

"Assimilation" does not mean everybody should look the same and do the same things. It means respecting American culture and trying to live that way. But NOOOOOOO, the libs say that's BS. They'd rather have a mosaic of people all believing different things.

Just wait until California decides it wants to become independent. BWAHAHA!!!

Revelant in why people dislike republicans, this adminstration, etc... that is where the war numbers come in... your notion of just disliking the establishment is misguided, that is what the numbers are for..

People are ******* now, that's why.

Truman was considered a very good president. he NUKED civilians. But one collateral death in Iraq and the LIBS cry "HITLER!"

It's ludicrous.

Well, we know that to be wrong again... the president was put in office...but it was not on his expertise, judgement or leadership... his actions speak volumes about all his undesirable traits...

What actions? I supposed he should have done nothing like everybody else before him?

Please. From Lebanon to 9-11, the *&^* got worse and more frequent and nobody did jack. I didn't vote for Bush but I'll RACK him for being aggressive.

[York Hunt]

I'm uninformed Mr. Hunt tells us. Yet he compares socialism to democracy. LMAO again! Democracy is a structure of government, socialism an ideal.

Socialism means the government controlling a lot. That's part of government, mensa.


Structurally, this government is a federal republic.

No, ****, Sherlock.

So was the Soviet Union. So is the Peoples Republic of China.

2 countries you obviously admire greatly.

There is not now and never has been any form of democracy in America nor should there be. Next to a Monarchy, Democracy is the most unfair form of government you can have. In a Democracy, citizens propose and vote on legislation. The majority exists to screw the minority. That's why we have a republic and an electoral college.

Are you really this dense?

You think since the Presidential vote goes through the elctoral college, that there's no democracy here?

What about every other elected official?

I guess you forgot about them.

ROTFLMAO! :D

Democracy is fair as all hell in its true form. Of course, you'll spout "tyranny of the majority" just as I knew you would.

It's elitist d-bags like you who have NO problem with top down socialis because you think you're smarter than everybody.

The USSR and the PRC are one-party systems.

Where are you lifting your ideas from? the USSR is no longer yet you're talking in the present tense. Looks like somebody's Googlin'!

:lol:

Damn, dude, if we wanted an encyclopedic survey on forms of government, we'd go to the nearest high school. Lord, enough!


Socialism and capitalism aren't forms of government.

No ****, Sherlock.

And you're claiming that I'm uninformed and uneducated? LMAO for a third time.

That's exactly what I'm claiming. What's you education?

It's sad that in order to discuss these things, I have to give a civics lesson. It's kind of symbolic of modern American political apathy.

It's sad you feel the need to act like an expert and regurgitate simple factoids.

Again, what's your education?

[York Hunt]

BBP, these guys are hopeless. They are so limited in their thought process they can't understand the benefits of legalizing drugs. Like I said before, York is incapable of critical thinking. He can only process thoughts that have been drilled into his head over the years. He doesn't challenge anything that is in place. He only wants to restrict what others can do. "you can't take drugs, you can't have an abortion, you can't end your own life, you can't marry someone of the same sex." People like this have no life of their own so they insist on regulating your way of life.


Are you a moron? i just want to be clear here before we go any further with this.

1. people can take all the drugs they want. I don't care. It's not my body. I merely said I don't support them being legalized.

2. I'm not against abortion on moral grounds, I'm against it being protected federally. That means I'm against it in a legal sense pertaining to the decline of federalism. In case you aren't sure what federalism means, perhaps you could look it up. I know your jargon. "Toke" "Half bag" "half and half" are terms I'm familiar with. Perhaps you could teach yourself my terms

3. I am fully supportive of the right to die and don't think suicide should be a crime. If people want to kill themselves, oh well...let 'em.

4. I fully support gay unions with all the same benefits of marriage. I'm just against gay partnerships being lumped in with marriage on, yep, legal grounds.

You're obviously a dope toking drunk who can't discuss any of this above a 10th grade level.

Define "no life." Of course, if you're too busy toking down delicious weed smoke, get back to me later. :D

[CKFresh]

You're a big man York.

If you think drugs should be illegal you are suggesting that our government decides what we can put into our bodies. Therefore you have a natural tendency to want to oppress people. If you really felt that people should be allowed to take whatever drugs they want then you would HAVE to be for legalizaion. Your statements are quite contradictory.

[York Hunt]

You're a big man York.

If you think drugs should be illegal you are suggesting that our government decides what we can put into our bodies. Therefore you have a natural tendency to want to oppress people. If you really felt that people should be allowed to take whatever drugs they want then you would HAVE to be for legalizaion. Your statements are quite contradictory.

You need to really think about this.

I said I don't think they should be legalized.

I never said they should be illegal.

They already are illegal. I'm not opining on whether or not I agree with that.

I'm just not in favor of legalizing them.

If they were already legal, I would oppose criminalizing them.

There's a difference and if you weren't so high on dope, you might be able to comprehend it.

[CKFresh]

I don't even do drugs my man.

So by your rationale, you don't want abortion to be made illegal right. SInce it is legal now, yet you oppose it.

Typical conservative, you use the argument for one issue, but use a completely different logic for another issue.

Answer this: Should the US government continue to spend billions of dollars seeking out and imprisoning non-violent drug users?

[RavenPoe]

Socialism means the government controlling a lot. That's part of government, mensa.

The government of the USA controls a lot. What does that mean?

2 countries you obviously admire greatly.

Nope. Just pointing out facts that you seem to have missed in eighth grade civics.

Are you really this dense?

It's elitist d-bags like you

That's exactly what I'm claiming. What's you education?

Mr. Hunt! Which is it? Am I an elitist d-bag or a dumbass? I need to know. lol

You think since the Presidential vote goes through the elctoral college, that there's no democracy here?

What about every other elected official?

I guess you forgot about them.


Once again, in a democracy, citizens propose and vote on LEGISLATION. Did you miss that the first time around? Ever voted on legislation, Mr. Hunt? No, you know why? Because you're not in a democracy. Voting for officials who then vote on legislation is called a republic. Again, it's sad that you need this civics lesson.

ROTFLMAO! :D

Are you possibly choking on a pretzel?

Democracy is fair as all hell in its true form. Of course, you'll spout "tyranny of the majority" just as I knew you would.


I didn't have to spout it, the founding fathers already spouted it for me.

It's elitist d-bags like you who have NO problem with top down socialis because you think you're smarter than everybody.


Not everybody, just you.


Where are you lifting your ideas from? the USSR is no longer yet you're talking in the present tense. Looks like somebody's Googlin'!


Just shortening sentences. I remember when the Soviet Union collapsed. I remember the Commonwealth of Independent States forming. No need to google either.


No ****, Sherlock.

If you really know, then start speaking in complete sentences using something other than Dennis Miller material. You're not fooling anyone.

It's sad you feel the need to act like an expert and regurgitate simple factoids.

I need to get you up to speed if I'm to debate with you. It's real hard to discuss such complicated issues with a moron. :lol:

[HibachiDG]

I don't even do drugs my man.

So by your rationale, you don't want abortion to be made illegal right. SInce it is legal now, yet you oppose it.

Typical conservative, you use the argument for one issue, but use a completely different logic for another issue.

Answer this: Should the US government continue to spend billions of dollars seeking out and imprisoning non-violent drug users?

I believe he stated earlier that his issue with abortion was the way in which it was made legal and federalism concerns on the issue. Doesn't seem to me like he's doing what you're saying.

[RavenPoe]

Abortion started out legal, obviously. It was made illegal by a law which was found to be unconstitutional by the supreme court. I fail to see how someone would have a problem with that system in one sentence and claim to be a patriot in another. Then add a third sentence stating that "libs" do nothing but bash the government. Typical convenient circular conservative logic, isn't it? If you all would write a constitution it would read like an Orwell.

[BigBuddhaPup]

And the country is going right down the *****ter.



Point to me where I said it was.



Dude, give it a rest. If I want to read the cia world factbook, I'll go to the site.

I think the choice in the drug war is: status quo(controlled by crime, and fought by gov't), or legalization(controlled by gov't)...I think we can discourage drugs in the same way we discourge cigarettes for the most part... people know they are bad, they are promoted as bad, but you can use them if you want to...[/QUOTE]

Not so sure.[/QUOTE]


That is the rallying cry of conservatives since the birth of this country...even civilization for that matter... our *insert land* is going down the crapper.. if we don't get back to traditions we are in big trouble... blah, blah, blah...

Look at your posts, I am sure you can recall what you said..

I didn't copy/paste or type or even look at the CIA site...that was what I thought, I don't need anyones help to have a viewpoint...

The difference I don't think people will go crazy on drugs if given the choice of taking them or not legally...

[HibachiDG]

Well, I would guess that he thinks the supreme court overstepped their bounds in ruling that states can't decide the legality of abortion, but that the federal government can decide the legality of narcotics. I don't want to put forth an argument for him, just wanted to give a take (since I wasn't in the discussion) that what he was saying did not come off as contradictory to me.

[CKFresh]

Poe, well said.

Why even bother? I keep talking, but these guys continue to deny reality and refuse to think for themselves.

"Drugs are bad...but you can use them...just not legally...I don't care what you put in your body...drugs should be illegal."

Huh?

[York Hunt]

I don't even do drugs my man.

Riiiiiight.

So by your rationale, you don't want abortion to be made illegal right. SInce it is legal now, yet you oppose it.

Don't confuse yourself too much. Nice job changing the issue.

Illicit drugs and abortion are two ENTIRELY different issues.

i already stated i oppose the way abortion became legal. i also think it should be a state issue

Typical conservative, you use the argument for one issue, but use a completely different logic for another issue.

You're really this confused, aren't you?

Using your logic, if you like bananas, you must like apples since they are both fruits. Are you really this dense?

[/QUOTE]Answer this: Should the US government continue to spend billions of dollars seeking out and imprisoning non-violent drug users?[/QUOTE]

They don't do that now. Is this a hypothetical question?

I have known a LOT of druggies in my day and I only know of two personally who have been sentenced to prison and it's because they were both dealing LSD and coke.

The "non-violent drug users are being thrown into prison" argument is a crock of crap and anybody who believes it is a dupe.

Of course they always take some guy who violated his probation or parole from some more serious charge and there's the evidence that non-violent drug users are being thrown into prison.

What a load.

How about this. I'll give you a chance to prove it to me. Link me or provide me with more than a handful of cases where a totally peaceful drug user was sentenced to prison.

Go ahead. :D

[RavenPoe]

Well, I would guess that he thinks the supreme court overstepped their bounds in ruling that states can't decide the legality of abortion, but that the federal government can decide the legality of narcotics. I don't want to put forth an argument for him, just wanted to give a take (since I wasn't in the discussion) that what he was saying did not come off as contradictory to me.

Doug,

Wouldn't that be contradictory? If the federal government is overstepping it's bounds by ruling federally on abortion, wouldn't they be doing the same by ruling federally on drugs? Your logic doesn't seem.......logical. That is, your logic on whether or not he was being contradictory.

[York Hunt]

Well, I would guess that he thinks the supreme court overstepped their bounds in ruling that states can't decide the legality of abortion

Yep.

but that the federal government can decide the legality of narcotics.

Not necessarily but since the drug trade in large part comes across the border, it is by default a federal issue as well as a state one.

I don't want to put forth an argument for him, just wanted to give a take (since I wasn't in the discussion) that what he was saying did not come off as contradictory to me.

You can't put forth an argument because there isn't one.

You have twisted my argument and put words in my mouth.

Now, I will be forced to put my proverbial nuts in yours. I mean, I can kick your arses on this crap all day if you'd like.

:D

[BigBuddhaPup]

Because the liberals have made other liberals think "reproductive rights" are part of their heritage and birthright. Therefore, you have all thse people who will never even be pregnant freaking out of their "right" to abort.

Ha ha ha. great move on the libs to protect their "it's all about me, F the consequences" ideology.

Wanna blow some stranger in a club and then have him blast off in your vage unprotected? NO PROBLEM, YOU CAN JUST ABORT LATER IF YOU GET KNOCKED UP!

What a joke.



Obviously, look at teh GAYS. There's even less of them and look at all the pull they have with the libs.



"Assimilation" does not mean everybody should look the same and do the same things. It means respecting American culture and trying to live that way. But NOOOOOOO, the libs say that's BS. They'd rather have a mosaic of people all believing different things.

Just wait until California decides it wants to become independent. BWAHAHA!!!



People are ******* now, that's why.

Truman was considered a very good president. he NUKED civilians. But one collateral death in Iraq and the LIBS cry "HITLER!"

It's ludicrous.



What actions? I supposed he should have done nothing like everybody else before him?

Please. From Lebanon to 9-11, the *&^* got worse and more frequent and nobody did jack. I didn't vote for Bush but I'll RACK him for being aggressive.



Yep, it is a birthright to have control over your own body... very libertarian, huh?... it isn't the right to abort...it is the right to choose what an individual does with their body... it goes with idea of taking what you will into your body(drugs, etc)...or sexual orientation....or the right to die.... it is your life, your body, your choice... that is libertarianism...

As for your club scenario... yep, if you get pregnant and don't want it, you are correct...that is choice...and individual should be afforded those rights... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... very constitutionalist...

It is the other way around... liberals have support from the gay community, because liberals support gay rights... well, actually, liberal support gay rights more than conservatives..which isn't enough in my opinion..

I would rather have people believing in what they want to believe instead making everyone believe "american culture", whatever that means... American culture isn't singular, it is plural...

You better hope California doesn't want to come independent... 5th largest economy in the world by itself... all those tax cuts will definitely hurt even more after that...

Never cried "Hitler"... when someone brings up the name, it is obvious they have lost the debate and are resorting to hyperbole...

Nothing huh? Who did nothing? Every president did something, the difference is this president made a gigantic cluster**** out of the whole ordeal...

We do have something in common, I didn't vote for Bush either...:D

[York Hunt]

Poe, well said.

Why even bother? I keep talking, but these guys continue to deny reality and refuse to think for themselves.

"Drugs are bad...but you can use them...just not legally...I don't care what you put in your body...drugs should be illegal."

Huh?


Hmm, I'm not worshipping your opinion as truth so you go right to the ad hominem atttacks eh?

BWAHAHA!!!

Gimme a break, tardling.

Let's agree to disagree, okay? Or is there smoke still coming out of your ears?

:D

[RavenPoe]

Not necessarily but since the drug trade in large part comes across the border, it is by default a federal issue as well as a state one.

If drugs are legalized it's no longer a border issue, Einstein. I guess you were hoping no one would catch that.

You can't put forth an argument because there isn't one.

Agreed! Discussing politics with you is tantamount to discussing advanced mathematics with Paris Hilton.

Now, I will be forced to put my proverbial nuts in yours. I mean, I can kick your arses on this crap all day if you'd like.

Calling the battle of Iraq "one victory in the war on terrorism", US President George W Bush yesterday declared major combat operations over. :lol:

The apple don't fall to far from the tree.

[York Hunt]

Yep, it is a birthright to have control over your own body...

People are free to use birth control as much as they want. it's when they kill the totally defenseless that people have a problem with it.

[/QUOTE]it isn't the right to abort...it is the right to choose what an individual does with their body... it goes with idea of taking what you will into your body(drugs, etc)...or sexual orientation....or the right to die.... it is your life, your body, your choice... that is libertarianism...[/QUOTE]

You can't reason abortion away to a pro lifer because they believe it's murder.

Why don't those rights extend to the fetus?

Why? Is that not a child in there?

Do you have kids?

As for your club scenario... yep, if you get pregnant and don't want it, you are correct...that is choice...and individual should be afforded those rights... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... very constitutionalist...

Oh lord. I'm sure the founders were very into abortion. Gimme a break. It's a lib idea that the scammed the country into through several SCOTUS decisions.

I would rather have people believing in what they want to believe instead making everyone believe "american culture", whatever that means... American culture isn't singular, it is plural...

you're talking nonsense.

Never cried "Hitler"... when someone brings up the name, it is obvious they have lost the debate and are resorting to hyperbole...

I'm just wondering if you'll ever bring any substance to this.

Nothing huh? Who did nothing? Every president did something, the difference is this president made a gigantic cluster**** out of the whole ordeal...

Sure, everything is such a cluster****. Hyperbole indeed.

[York Hunt]

If drugs are legalized it's no longer a border issue, Einstein. I guess you were hoping no one would catch that.

it's official: you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm making an argument in reality and the reality is that they are illegal now. You can't just change from reality to hypothetical to suit your little meltdown, junior. Try to keep up.

[York Hunt]

Mr. Hunt! Which is it? Am I an elitist d-bag or a dumbass? I need to know. lol

This just proves my point. You don't have to be smart to be an elitist, you just have to THINK you are. You obviously do think that. Boy are you stupid!

Once again, in a democracy, citizens propose and vote on LEGISLATION. [/quote]

Nice spin. You made your argument based on the electoral college.

:lol:

We vote for people who we think will represent our interests.

Explain to me again how our Senators and Reps are elected using the electoral college. :lol:

Ever voted on legislation, Mr. Hunt? No, you know why? Because you're not in a democracy. Voting for officials who then vote on legislation is called a republic. Again, it's sad that you need this civics lesson.

So, when I vote on ballot initiatives and state amendments and propostiions, that's not democracy?

You're kicking your own a$$ here. Hard. :D

I didn't have to spout it, the founding fathers already spouted it for me.

the founders also supported slavery. I guess you're down with that too.

I need to get you up to speed if I'm to debate with you. It's real hard to discuss such complicated issues with a moron. :lol:

Tell me about it. Funny how I'm the moron after your idiocy was exposed. :D

[RavenPoe]

it's official: you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm making an argument in reality and the reality is that they are illegal now. You can't just change from reality to hypothetical to suit your little meltdown, junior. Try to keep up.

Huh? It was LEGALIZING drugs that was being discussed; was it not?

I'll be 38 in January so I hardly think that junior fits. Also, I'm definitely not having any sort of meltdown. I'm eating cheeseburgers, doing some work and having political battle of the wits with an unarmed opponent. Nothing at all to get upset over. :D

[RavenPoe]

Explain to me again how our Senators and Reps are elected using the electoral college.

I never said that they were. Electing officials isn't democracy. There's no spin there. It's just eighth grade civics.

So, when I vote on ballot initiatives and state amendments and propostiions, that's not democracy?

Referendum voting is not democracy. Study ancient Greece to see a democracy.

the founders also supported slavery. I guess you're down with that too.

Nope. I'm not a sheep like you. I can except some of their logic and reject some of their logic. Protecting the minority was obviously good logic while slavery and no direct taxation were poor logic.


Tell me about it. Funny how I'm the moron after your idiocy was exposed.

I suspect that you were a moron long before my idiocy was exposed. :lol:

[HibachiDG]

Doug,

Wouldn't that be contradictory? If the federal government is overstepping it's bounds by ruling federally on abortion, wouldn't they be doing the same by ruling federally on drugs? Your logic doesn't seem.......logical. That is, your logic on whether or not he was being contradictory.

Not if you think the government can't rule federally on abortion and can rule federally on drugs. They're different subject matter, so it's conceivable that someone would consider one a state's rights issue and another as a federal issue.

[BigBuddhaPup]

People are free to use birth control as much as they want. it's when they kill the totally defenseless that people have a problem with it.

it isn't the right to abort...it is the right to choose what an individual does with their body... it goes with idea of taking what you will into your body(drugs, etc)...or sexual orientation....or the right to die.... it is your life, your body, your choice... that is libertarianism...[/QUOTE]

You can't reason abortion away to a pro lifer because they believe it's murder.

Why don't those rights extend to the fetus?

Why? Is that not a child in there?

Do you have kids?



Oh lord. I'm sure the founders were very into abortion. Gimme a break. It's a lib idea that the scammed the country into through several SCOTUS decisions.



you're talking nonsense.



I'm just wondering if you'll ever bring any substance to this.



Sure, everything is such a cluster****. Hyperbole indeed.[/QUOTE]



A cluster of cells isn't a life.

A pro-lifer, anti-choicer, whatever, can make their choice as well...

When a cluster of cell hasn't reached viability it isn't a life... that hasn't nothing to do with morality, that is science... viability isn't reached until between 21st to 25th weeks... only 1 percent of all abortions are done after 21st week, only .04 of all abortions are done after 25th week(usually done to protect the mother)... the issue of abortion is a non-issue, and should remain as it is...

None of your business about my family or my personal life...keep the discussion on the topics...

Founders had no idea of abortion as it exists today... it is a non sequitor on your part..

Plenty of substance, but that is just your opinion, nothing else... so in that note, I could care less your thoughts on that...lets keep the discussion to the topics..


Cluster**** - sending our young men and women to war on a false intel that was cherry picked to justify a wrong war...having no plan for this war... then changing rationale for this war when the others were seen as flimsy reasons... causing a civil war between the Shia and Sunni...not equiping our men/women to do the job correctly... 10,000 plus seriously injured, over 3000 dead...Americans! for no reason.. for GW's misguided crusade!... that is not hyperbole, that is the facts...so the adjective, Cluster****, applies perfectly....

[York Hunt]

I never said that they were. Electing officials isn't democracy. There's no spin there. It's just eighth grade civics.



It's representative democracy.

And for you to say we don't vote on legislation is just not true.

and we all know it's not true democracy, so can it

tudy ancient Greece to see a democracy.

No need to study ancient greece even though I have.

So, I guess there can only be one everything with no variations. Greece had democracy and anything not EXACTLY like it is something entirely different? BWAHJAH!!!

Nope. I'm not a sheep like you.

How am I sheep again? Because you don't like what I'm saying? Please, you're getting emotional.

I suspect that you were a moron long before my idiocy was exposed. :lol:

But we've only scratched the surface of your idiocy. I have a sneaking suspicion that it runs real deep. :D

[York Hunt]

A cluster of cells isn't a life.

It's not? Who says so?

Is it death? It's either alive or it's dead. How far do you want to split the issue until you reach a place that you feel proves your argument?

A pro-lifer, anti-choicer, whatever, can make their choice as well...

Why can't the choice be made before the pregnancy happens? You can choose to use protection, you can choose oral or anal sex instead, you can choose abstinence.

Why isn't it offensive? Is it because the fetus doesn't know any better? Using that logic, poppping people in their sleep should be legal too since they don't know the difference.

When a cluster of cell hasn't reached viability it isn't a life... that hasn't nothing to do with morality, that is science... viability isn't reached until between 21st to 25th weeks... only 1 percent of all abortions are done after 21st week, only .04 of all abortions are done after 25th week(usually done to protect the mother)... the issue of abortion is a non-issue, and should remain as it is...

Right, it should be a NON ISSUE.

However, you have piqued my interest in the debate on "viable life"

So, it's only viable when it can leave the womb and survive? Is that what you're saying? Then how about we legalize infanticide for infants that aren't able to feed themselves? How is that any different? An infant, or even a toddler can't feed himself so F 'em right?

What's the difference except for some arbitrary decision based on some d-bag ideology that says you can just go ahead and off a baby if you don't want to deal with hit?

None of your business about my family or my personal life...keep the discussion on the topics...

It's relevant. If you had kids you might feel differently.

Founders had no idea of abortion as it exists today... it is a non sequitor on your part..

They had no concept of the modern lib notion of "freedom" either but that doesn't stop people from invoking them for that.

[York Hunt]

DOUG GRAHAM, I misunderstood what you were saying before

I apologize if I offended you.

york

[BigBuddhaPup]

It's not? Who says so?

Is it death? It's either alive or it's dead. How far do you want to split the issue until you reach a place that you feel proves your argument?



Why can't the choice be made before the pregnancy happens? You can choose to use protection, you can choose oral or anal sex instead, you can choose abstinence.

Why isn't it offensive? Is it because the fetus doesn't know any better? Using that logic, poppping people in their sleep should be legal too since they don't know the difference.



Right, it should be a NON ISSUE.

However, you have piqued my interest in the debate on "viable life"

So, it's only viable when it can leave the womb and survive? Is that what you're saying? Then how about we legalize infanticide for infants that aren't able to feed themselves? How is that any different? An infant, or even a toddler can't feed himself so F 'em right?

What's the difference except for some arbitrary decision based on some d-bag ideology that says you can just go ahead and off a baby if you don't want to deal with hit?



It's relevant. If you had kids you might feel differently.



They had no concept of the modern lib notion of "freedom" either but that doesn't stop people from invoking them for that.



Science proves it. Stats back it up.

You can choose beforehand and afterwards... it is your choice regardless.

People sleeping are different... logic doesn't apply to the comparison.

Viable applies to before birth, not after.

It is not off-ing a baby until it is a baby...and it is not a baby until it is viable outside the body...

You have no idea if I have kids or not...please refrain from talking about my personal life, it is no business of yours...stick to the topics, please.

[York Hunt]

I'm not "talking about" your personal life. I'm asking you a fukken question. If you don't want to answer it, fine, I don't give a flying crap.

Jesus.

Back to the abortion thing:

So, some scientists say it's okay so it's all good eh?

Do they ALL say that?

No.

out

[RavenPoe]

Representative democracy is a two-word synonym for republic. As Carlin so eloquently points out; "people add words to things to make them seem more important than they really are". The original point was lost.

Modern republicans spout about supporting freedom and democracy and then allow the elected officials of this REPUBLIC to sign into law the Patriot Act. You have no idea what freedom and democracy are. You're sheeple, nothing more. You'll spew out whatever mantra they tell you to. As I've pointed out before, if W says that Coke is unamerican, you'll all be drinking Pepsi tomorrow.

You talk about socialist values like they're anti-democracy. We have many socialist programs right here in America. Welfare, Social Security, Unemployment Compensation and Workman's Compensation just to name a few. They've been working well for a long time. Welfare needs some changes but we'll need democrats in power to get that done.

For something to be dead, it must have first been alive. A rock isn't dead or alive, it's neither.

[BigBuddhaPup]

I'm not "talking about" your personal life. I'm asking you a fukken question. If you don't want to answer it, fine, I don't give a flying crap.

Jesus.

Back to the abortion thing:

So, some scientists say it's okay so it's all good eh?

Do they ALL say that?

No.

out

Good...then don't ask me anymore questions about it then...

You blasphemed...for shame...

Science shows where the unborn becomes viable. Yes, it is a consensus that viability falls between 21st and 25th weeks of gestation..

Consensus - a great majority

Absolutionist logic doesn't work either....

Over and out...:D

[York Hunt]

Representative democracy is a two-word synonym for republic. As Carlin so eloquently points out; "people add words to things to make them seem more important than they really are". The original point was lost.

Modern republicans spout about supporting freedom and democracy and then allow the elected officials of this REPUBLIC to sign into law the Patriot Act.

You have no idea what freedom and democracy are.

My conception of both appears to be much more involved than yours. I've spent the last 17 years studying both.

I started with ancient cultures and worked my way up through the Middle Ages. Then Hobbes, Locke, Hume, Adam Smith, Marx, Weber, Popper blah blah blah.......you seem to be caught up in a personal post modernism quagmire. I'll guess you're single and abuse drugs.

A free society involves personal responsibilty. Our successes as a nation involve the so-called "cultural inheritance" of all the generations before us. Instead of taking the completely absurd idea that Marx had, that each generation should be allowed to make it's own rules, that what you're born into is unfair, successful, lasting free societies need to show reverence for the institutions that have been distilled over time in a sort of cultural Darwinsim.

These ideas are well documented by esteemed thinkers like Friedrich Hayek, Thomas Sowell, and many others.

Life is not fair. But a free society is preferable to a socialist one.

The other option is anarchy. I'm not totally against that but it's never work. I'm confident that I could hold my own but it's part of man's nature to form societies and sooner or later they would crop up.





You're sheeple, nothing more.

If that makes you feel better. It's always comforting to go ad hominem when you're getting your arse beaten down by somebody more educated than yourself.


You'll spew out whatever mantra they tell you to. As I've pointed out before, if W says that Coke is unamerican, you'll all be drinking Pepsi tomorrow.

I didn't vote for any of those people. You just throw whatever crap you can and hope it sticks? :lol:

Man, get a grip, you're losin' it!

You talk about socialist values like they're anti-democracy. We have many socialist programs right here in America.

Right, and we should get the hell rid of them.

Welfare, Social Security, Unemployment Compensation and Workman's Compensation just to name a few.

ALL lame.

They've been working well for a long time. Welfare needs some changes but we'll need democrats in power to get that done.

I think they suck.

For something to be dead, it must have first been alive. A rock isn't dead or alive, it's neither.

So, if only you had been aborted you wouldn't be melting like this?

:lol:

If the thing has a heartbeat and opens its eyes and moves around, it's alive. That's what those fetuses do. I can't expect you to know that but it's true.

That's a baby in there. no 2 ways about it.

[York Hunt]

You blasphemed...for shame...

How can I blaspheme? I'm not a Christian.

Science shows where the unborn becomes viable. Yes, it is a consensus that viability falls between 21st and 25th weeks of gestation..

It was also a consensus that the fascists had solved everybody's problems.

It was also a consensus that the eaerth was flat.

Shall I go on?

It's arbitrary.

All I know is that I saw all of my children in the womb via ultrasound. They had beating hearts, they moved, they even burped.

I'm looking at them right now. Would it have been okay to abort them when there will NEVER be another birth like any of them?

They are unique humans. To take that away is a pretty strong thing and highly offensive to me on a cosmic level.

It's certainly nothing government should be protecting.

[RavenPoe]

You didn't vote for Bush? Are you saying you're libertarian?

[CKFresh]

Hahaha,
I love how all the anti-drug arguments would be obsolete if drugs we illegal. Border control, supporting murderes and thugs, ect... Those are all direct results of the war on drugs. Let me make it simply for you York:

Drugs illegal = Millions of dollars spend to enforce laws, arrest drug dealers, ect... Criminals reap the profit while government waste money. People die from drug addiction.

Drugs legal = Criminals lose major source of income. Government reaps the benefits. People die from drug addiction.

Notice, in both cases, people die fro drug addiction. However when it is legalized, no one dies due to drug related activities (shootings drug deals gone bad), the government benefits and criminals are put out of business.

Can you understand that? Or are you so stubborn that you can't see truth. Did you have a college roomate or former friend that used to blow pot smoke in your face or something? You seem like you know that drugs should be legal but you have some grudge with drug users.

Grow up peter pan, stop living in Never Never Land.

[RavenPoe]

All I know is that I saw all of my children in the womb via ultrasound. They had beating hearts, they moved, they even burped.

I'm looking at them right now. Would it have been okay to abort them when there will NEVER be another birth like any of them?

And because it's that way for you, it must be that way for everyone, right? You make this too easy.

[Peter North]

I love how all the anti-drug arguments would be obsolete if drugs we illegal.

You're apparantly too stoned to understand what an utterly silly notion that is.

Your idea would send the country into rampant drug abuse. Off the charts drug abuse.

"people should be free to smoke a joint once in a while if they want to.........." blah blah blah .....

That's not the REALITY. The reality is that people abuse drugs, and the nation would swifly become one of drug abuse and absolute filth. You seriously need to wake up.

The same amoral leftists who have vigorously pushed the rampant false ADD diagnosis crisis love people like you. They've already set the stage for acceptance of an open drug culture in the country by having our children grow up as druggies.

Drugs are alright. Drugs are good for us all. I've been on drugs since I was 7. Drugs, drugs, drugs.....

Sick and very VERY stupid.

We may just go fully French and wave the white flag to our MANY enemies before going down the road that you and your ilk would take us.

[Peter North]

And because it's that way for you, it must be that way for everyone, right? You make this too easy.

Don't be a goofball. An unborn child is THE most vulnerable being in our society. These children-to-be need protection from sick freaks who will kill them under the guise of......freedom.

Slaughtering bunch of sick freaks.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

[BigBuddhaPup]

How can I blaspheme? I'm not a Christian.



It was also a consensus that the fascists had solved everybody's problems.

It was also a consensus that the eaerth was flat.

Shall I go on?

It's arbitrary.

All I know is that I saw all of my children in the womb via ultrasound. They had beating hearts, they moved, they even burped.

I'm looking at them right now. Would it have been okay to abort them when there will NEVER be another birth like any of them?

They are unique humans. To take that away is a pretty strong thing and highly offensive to me on a cosmic level.

It's certainly nothing government should be protecting.


Twas a joke... I have no interest in your religiousity...

And I have no interest in moral relativism... it is an arguement based on feelings, not facts...

At one time, we all were not viable, and very much abortable...so be offended, that holds no interest to me...

[RavenPoe]

Don't be a goofball. An unborn child is THE most vulnerable being in our society. These children-to-be need protection from sick freaks who will kill them under the guise of......freedom.

Slaughtering bunch of sick freaks.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Don't be a fascist. These women need protected from the misogynist freaks who bomb abortion clinics in the name of "their" god. You have a mental disorder, it's called a superiority complex. Thanks God the level heads in the supreme court are smarter than the average republican.

Battle all you want, you already lost this one many years ago. Talk is cheap.

[HibachiDG]

Hahaha,
I love how all the anti-drug arguments would be obsolete if drugs we illegal. Border control, supporting murderes and thugs, ect... Those are all direct results of the war on drugs. Let me make it simply for you York:

Drugs illegal = Millions of dollars spend to enforce laws, arrest drug dealers, ect... Criminals reap the profit while government waste money. People die from drug addiction.

Drugs legal = Criminals lose major source of income. Government reaps the benefits. People die from drug addiction.

Notice, in both cases, people die fro drug addiction. However when it is legalized, no one dies due to drug related activities (shootings drug deals gone bad), the government benefits and criminals are put out of business.

Can you understand that? Or are you so stubborn that you can't see truth. Did you have a college roomate or former friend that used to blow pot smoke in your face or something? You seem like you know that drugs should be legal but you have some grudge with drug users.

Grow up peter pan, stop living in Never Never Land.


Not all problems from drugs would go away and you could have new problems develop. As well, the problems that come with addiction are quite heavy. I would be interested in seeing a comprehensive program to legalize drug use. I wouldn't say never to the idea of legalizing drugs, there are just a lot of negatives you would have to get rid and it's definitely not as simple as you're making it out to be.

One of the things I think about in it is what you mention, a lot of murders and drug dealers on the street and we could get rid of these problems in legalizing drug use...but that is far from a guarantee. You're still going to have people who buy drugs that don't want others to know about it, illegal sales to those under 18 or whatever age restriction they put on it.

And the big one that stops me in my tracks whenever I hesitate and slip to thinking that legalizing drugs would be a good thing...who is going to be the first private entity to put out a better package than what the government is selling? Drug users flock to a package if they find out it's been laced with something that might get them a high that will take them to the edge of death and others to death itself. The government certainly isn't going to put out a spiked packaged to drive up sales, but someone on the streets still might.

[York Hunt]

And because it's that way for you, it must be that way for everyone, right? You make this too easy.

So, nobody can make an argument unless everybody agrees with it?

You've got to be trolling here.

I find your moral relativism very cowardly. Maybe someday you'll have the balls to have an opinion other than:

"Do whatever make you feel good, man!"

[York Hunt]

You didn't vote for Bush? Are you saying you're libertarian?

I did not vote for Bush.

You're talking to a lifelong Democrat turned libertarian.

I have voted for one Republican in my entire life and it was a Senate race.

The libertarians have my vote at this point unless it's a close race and I want to support the GOP to keep the Dem out. Then I'll vote GOP.

I think the Democrats are so full of it at this point, I can't bring myself to vote for any of them.

[York Hunt]

Hahaha,
I love how all the anti-drug arguments would be obsolete if drugs we illegal. Border control, supporting murderes and thugs, ect... Those are all direct results of the war on drugs. Let me make it simply for you York:

Drugs illegal = Millions of dollars spend to enforce laws, arrest drug dealers, ect... Criminals reap the profit while government waste money. People die from drug addiction.

Drugs legal = Criminals lose major source of income. Government reaps the benefits. People die from drug addiction.

Notice, in both cases, people die fro drug addiction. However when it is legalized, no one dies due to drug related activities (shootings drug deals gone bad), the government benefits and criminals are put out of business.

Can you understand that? Or are you so stubborn that you can't see truth. Did you have a college roomate or former friend that used to blow pot smoke in your face or something? You seem like you know that drugs should be legal but you have some grudge with drug users.

Grow up peter pan, stop living in Never Never Land.

Yes, if drugs are legalized all those crimianls will suddenly "go straight" and become productive and responsible members of society.

BWAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!

Nobody can possibly be so naive as to think that. I mean nobody who is playing with a full deck, of course.

Weren't you the one making the argument that all these non-violent casual drug users were being thrown into prison? I'm still waiting for the documentation on that ridiculous claim. :lol:

I'm waiting.

[RavenPoe]

There's no such thing as a pro-life, anti-legalize libertarian. You mean you're a Dixiecrat turned member of the American libertarian party. You don't represent any values of anything libertarian.

You can make any argument you want. Just don't try to legislate "your" morality to the rest of the population. I too watched all three of my children in utero. One is still there as we speak. Never once have I wavered on a woman's right to choose. I try not to let the "feel good" influence my common sense. The very thing that you accuse ME of.

You are the troll. Everyone knows it. I don't care though cause gettin conservatives all in a huffy is one of my favorite pastimes. :lol:

[RavenPoe]

I happen to know one of those non-violent drug users thrown into prison. He was growing pot. He had 6 plants in his bedroom. The dumbass went to sleep with a pizza in the oven. The fire department came and the rest is history. He spent 6 years in state prison. Three convicted murderers came and went while he was there. Now that's ridiculous!

[York Hunt]

There's no such thing as a pro-life, anti-legalize libertarian.

I vote libertarian. If you don't think I'm a libertarian, who gives a crap?

Besides, I'm not pro-life. I'm against federal protection of abortion.

You mean you're a Dixiecrat turned member of the American libertarian party. You don't represent any values of anything libertarian.

Then you don't even know what the libertarian party stands for.

You can make any argument you want. Just don't try to legislate "your" morality to the rest of the population.

How on earth can I do that when I have no say in legislation? Man, if nothing else, you certainly kick your own ass like clockwork.

I too watched all three of my children in utero. One is still there as we speak. Never once have I wavered on a woman's right to choose.

Of course not.


I try not to let the "feel good" influence my common sense. The very thing that you accuse ME of.

It's not "feel good." if others want to abort and their state allows it, i don't care. I'm not pro life.

You are the troll. Everyone knows it. I don't care though cause gettin conservatives all in a huffy is one of my favorite pastimes. :lol:

If "huffy" means me kicking your flaky ass all over this forum... good job

[RavenPoe]

You're amusing for sure! I'll give you that. You came off very conservative at first. You seem to be back peddling. Or maybe I jumped the gun on the life/choice thing. I've been in many debates on this issue on these boards and others.

If you're a Libertarian, a real libertarian, then we have more in common than I thought. I'm a liberal for sure but that means we agree on about half of these issues. lol

I agree on federal protection of abortion. It should be a state to state matter. The trouble is that the supreme court has already overturned a law as unconstitutional. That means it's gonna take an amendment to change it now or the supreme court to overturn their own ruling. Neither is ever gonna happen.

If you honestly vote libertarian, than you get a bigger thumbs up from me than any republican voter for what that's worth. :)

[York Hunt]

I even convinced my wife to vote libertarian this last election.

I've had it with the BS but I will say that the GOP is the lesser of the two evils.

Like I said, in a close race I probably will vote GOP. However, I am examining that idea. Since I am a recent exile from the Democrats I am still in a transition period here.

But yeah, last election in Missouri:

One Republican, the rest libertarian, NO on every ballot measure.

An online friend of mine works for the libertarian party of missouri and we talk a lot. his influence has meant a lot to me in forming my opinions.

I will say that the LP leaves one thing to be desired for me and it's foreign policy. I favor a hardass foreign policy. I am starting to favor Fortress America. I loathe globalization and believe strongly in federalism. If you don't like what your state has, move to a different one. With federal power the way it is now, it hardly matters. I want that trend to stop.

But hey, I am conservative on many issues but I've lived most of my life as a non-conservative. I've been a moderate for the most part but I did possess the liberal attitudes of youth for many years. I got over that real quick when I began having serious debate with conservatives and after reading conservative theory.

Thomas Sowell is one of my favorites as is Friedrich Hayek. I've read most of the big ones and I have to say the conservative stuff makes more sense to me.

I respect everybody's right to have and voice their opinion. But I don't have to approve of it. I am not a Christian but I believe all the morality found in most religions--including Christianity--is pretty much the same and is generally good for society. I am not into the post modern BS that there is no meaning in anything. I find that to be a miserable way to look at the world.

I scoff at the argument that religion is bad because it causes people to do this, that...etc....

The person is to blame, not the religion. That is complete bunk. However, when it's part of the state and the law, it's a problem. See, Islam.

I am not religious but I study Buddhism and apply some of it to my everyday life. If I had to pick one religion, it would be Theravada Buddhism. one of my best friends is japanese-american and was raised a buddhist and we talk a lot about it. I don't even consider it a religion but whatever.

[RavenPoe]

Wow!

That's a bit of a startling revelation for me. York Hunt and me aren't really that far off. I hope you stick around so we can discuss the lessor of two evils argument. It's late tonight and I have to do my monthly Saturday tomorrow.

I believe that the republican party has been hijacked and corrupted by a group of "agendized" (inside joke) glory seekers. Until it all plays itself out, I won't vote for anyone with an R next to their name, save for Tom Ridge but he's the latest victim of the republican smear machine. His political career is likely over unless he's willing to switch sides.

[Peter North]

This is a pretty interesting thread. Beats the hell out of the private yerk off poli forum. Lefties sittin' around strokin' each other makes for some pretty poor entertainment value. WTF is the deal with that, and who's the retard that thinks that is a sensible thing?

Strange, man.

I vehemently disagree with the leftists posting here, but it's good dialogue. Mr. Hunt has thrashed some @ss too, and that ain't a bad thing.

[York Hunt]

rack peter north.

he gets it on the abortion issue.

those are defenseless babies, the most vulnerable citizens.

it's a fukken disgrace that the libs have twisted it around to condone murder in the name of "reproductive fights."

What a crock. Get knocked up, have the kid, and give it up for adoption.

every single woman I know who aborted is haunted by the decision. Every single one. It's a totally offensive thing.

I don't vote on the issue but if I had to vote yes or no, it would be a definitely NO.

It's fukken bullsh1t, it really is.

[York Hunt]

also, he fully understands that this is the kind of debate that should occur, not some circle jerk where everybody agrees with each other.

another rack for that

[HibachiDG]

You guys sure you can't post in the other forum? I thought Marc said he only toyed with the idea of restrictions for new members, but ultimately got rid of them...

[Peter North]

I am not allowed entrance.

I can see the lava lamp and the blue light posters deep in the background, but the as I approach the door, the purple-haired 'dude' with the nose ring and platform shoes turns me away.

[RavenPoe]

Once again Mr. Hunt,

You've outed yourself as a non-libertarian. Libertarians don't have a choice/life stance. They don't care. You call yourself a former democrat but you must be 120 years old for that to be true. Actually living woman have more rights than the collection of cells in their bellies. We exist in the realm of reality, not in the space where God rules. If God has a problem with abortion, let him come down off Olympus and open his fat fukken mouth. Until then, the rest of you need to shut yours about it.

[RavenPoe]

I'll interpret your lack of a response as a concession of the point. You're a republican, plain and simple.

[Peter North]

Actually living woman have more rights than the collection of cells in their bellies.

A fetus is a living being, and the only thing that differentiates it from a baby is that it is alive within the womb of a woman. It is by definiton a developing human.

Justifying murderer for the fulfillment of lustful and entirely selfish motivations makes one a lowlife.

[HibachiDG]

If God has a problem with abortion, let him come down off Olympus and open his fat fukken mouth. Until then, the rest of you need to shut yours about it.

If people are saying they have a problem with abortion based on religious principles, doesn't it imply that somehow God/religion helped formulate that opinion...in effect, God/religion spoke to them in some manner?

By the way, I love your signature RavenPoe, I really wish I had seen it a couple weeks ago so I could have stolen it for use in my Criminal Procedure class when we were discussing Miranda.

[Richard the Lionheart]

The whole abortion debate simply comes down to when you believe life begins--conception or birth. God doesn't have to come down from "Olympus" :rolleyes: for me to believe abortion is wrong.

[RavenPoe]

Philosophy is a wonderful endeavor. Conservative philosophy is, however, an oxymoron. lol

Yep. People are just screwing and having abortions. It doesn't have anything to do with uneducated women and conniving men. Just keep existing in your fantasy world and understand that the real world has already passed you by. The debate on this is over. It's legal and happening as we speak. You've already lost this battle. Fight one that you have a chance at winning.

[York Hunt]

Once again Mr. Hunt,

You've outed yourself as a non-libertarian. Libertarians don't have a choice/life stance. They don't care.

Define "care."

What's your obsession with fitting me into some category?

Are you saying I could agree with everything a libertarian is supposed to believe but that one thing will not make me a libertarian?

You call yourself a former democrat but you must be 120 years old for that to be true.

Did you just toke? I don't even know what that means.

Actually living woman have more rights than the collection of cells in their bellies.

I'm not going to have this discussion with you. If I think it's a baby, being the libertarian that you allegedly are, you'd say, "I respect your right to think it's a baby" and leave it at that.

We exist in the realm of reality, not in the space where God rules.

This has nothing to do with God.

If God has a problem with abortion, let him come down off Olympus and open his fat fukken mouth. Until then, the rest of you need to shut yours about it.

And you say you're a libertarian?

Why you want to make this about God, I don't know. i guess God is in your dome.

It's a little baby in there. beating heart, movement, the whole nine yards.

Every bit as helpless then as at 3 months old....6 months old.

[York Hunt]

I'll interpret your lack of a response as a concession of the point. You're a republican, plain and simple.


Sorry, I'm not. I am enjoying your fukken unraveling though.

Since you can't pigeonhole me, you've decided to have ameltdown.

great job, mensa

:lol:

btw, it's apparent from your responses that you're a lying homosexual.

[York Hunt]

Philosophy is a wonderful endeavor. Conservative philosophy is, however, an oxymoron. lol

Yep. People are just screwing and having abortions. It doesn't have anything to do with uneducated women and conniving men. Just keep existing in your fantasy world and understand that the real world has already passed you by. The debate on this is over. It's legal and happening as we speak. You've already lost this battle. Fight one that you have a chance at winning.


Like kicking your drug addicted ass all over this forum?

:lol:

have another drink, alkie.

[Montrovant]

The whole abortion debate simply comes down to when you believe life begins--conception or birth. God doesn't have to come down from "Olympus" :rolleyes: for me to believe abortion is wrong.

Gotta disagree with this Ricky, for a number of reasons. First of all, abortion isn't about life, rather it's about human life. Further, for some it's about potential human life, for others it's about thinking, reasoning human life. Personally, I don't care about conception or birth, but rather at which point the brain forms and functions enough for the child/fetus/whatever to be considered more than a vegetable. Actually, I don't much care about that personally, but I have different views as far as what I care about and what I think is best in a societal sense.

The solution is to come up with a sterilization technique that's easily reversable, sterilize everyone, and make them get a license to have children :) Or at least that's my preferred solution, but of course almost no one would agree with it :P

[Richard the Lionheart]

True, but that's all subjective, and that's where the debate stems from. I believe human life begins at conception, so of course I would be against abortion. That's just my opinion, and I certainly understand the contrary views.

[CKFresh]

York,

I seriously need to show documentation that non-violent drug users are going to jail? Are you insane? I'll help you out, think about this ok Peter Pan? If doing drugs is illegal, and there is a "war on drugs," wouldn't it make sense that there are people getting arrest for selling and using drugs? Seriously, I hope you are kidding or else your mentality is lacking a necessary function of reasoning.

As far as "rampant drug use" if drugs were made legal, can you give any reason why that would happen? Look at places like Holland. They've made soft drugs like pot legal, and use of hard drugs like heroin has dropped.

York, you are quite possibly the most inept poster I have ever come across, on any board. You actually believe that there are NO non-violent drug users in jail right now. That is beyond comprehension. Please wake up Peter Pan, you and your small minded friends are ruining this nation.

[Cure]

September 18, 2006 - Washington, DC, USA

Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 786,545 persons for marijuana violations in 2005, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 42.6 percent of all drug arrests in the United States.

"These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said NORML Executive Director Allen St. Pierre, who noted that at current rates, a marijuana smoker is arrested every 40 seconds in America. "This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that diverts law enforcement personnel away from focusing on serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism."

Of those charged with marijuana violations, approximately 88 percent some 696,074 Americans were charged with possession only. The remaining 90,471 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use. In past years, roughly 30 percent of those arrested were age 19 or younger.

"Present policies have done little if anything to decrease marijuana's availability or dissuade youth from trying it," St. Pierre said, noting young people in the U.S. now frequently report that they have easier access to pot than alcohol or tobacco.

The total number of marijuana arrests in the U.S. for 2005 far exceeded the total number of arrests in the U.S. for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

Annual marijuana arrests have more than doubled since the early 1990s.

"Arresting hundreds of thousands of Americans who smoke marijuana responsibly needlessly destroys the lives of otherwise law abiding citizens," St. Pierre said, adding that over 8 million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges in the past decade. During this same time, arrests for cocaine and heroin have declined sharply, implying that increased enforcement of marijuana laws is being achieved at the expense of enforcing laws against the possession and trafficking of more dangerous drugs.

St. Pierre concluded: "Enforcing marijuana prohibition costs taxpayers between $10 billion and $12 billion annually and has led to the arrest of nearly 18 million Americans. Nevertheless, some 94 million Americans acknowledge having used marijuana during their lives. It makes no sense to continue to treat nearly half of all Americans as criminals for their use of a substance that poses no greater - and arguably far fewer - health risks than alcohol or tobacco. A better and more sensible solution would be to tax and regulate cannabis in a manner similar to alcohol and tobacco."

[RavenPoe]

Let's get one thing clear. I am no libertarian. I'm a liberal democrat. It's not pigeonholing you to say that you're defying the very principal foundations of libertarianism by rejecting personal freedoms. There is a word for a libertarian who believes in freedom for businesses but not for individuals. The word is republican.

[York Hunt]

That article proves MY point.

88% was for simple possession. Those people are not being "thrown into prison" as the CK Fresh Prince of Bel Aire said originally.

sh1t, where i live, simple possession is a ticket payable by freakin' mail.

try again.

RavenPoe- While you try to figure out what I am, I'll continue to know what you are. :D

[York Hunt]

As far as "rampant drug use" if drugs were made legal, can you give any reason why that would happen? Look at places like Holland. They've made soft drugs like pot legal, and use of hard drugs like heroin has dropped.

Pot is practically legal now, mensa.

Tell me, have you ever been busted for pot? Almost every friend I had growing up toked all day every day and none of them ever got busted.

And I could give two *****s about heroin use. If people wanna shoot up, let 'em. who gives a crap if it's legal or not?

I don't care that it's illegal. I wouldn't care if it was legal. I just don't care either way. why do you?

[Jaguar Rick]

It makes no sense to continue to treat nearly half of all Americans as criminals for their use of a substance that poses no greater - and arguably far fewer - health risks than alcohol or tobacco. A better and more sensible solution would be to tax and regulate cannabis in a manner similar to alcohol and tobacco."[/QUOTE]

Cure,
I hope I live to see legalization. I can dream can't I? As my wife leaves for grocery shopping and asks if I need anything, I can tell her yes! Get me a 12 pack of Heineken and a carton of Tallahassee-Two-Toke smokes. Hell, I wouldn't mind being taxed!

[Peter North]

As far as "rampant drug use" if drugs were made legal, can you give any reason why that would happen? Look at places like Holland. They've made soft drugs like pot legal, and use of hard drugs like heroin has dropped.

And "soft drug" use is extremely high. Stoners everywhere. The country is hell. As I said, we may as well wave the white flag and surrender if our government is going to support having it's citizenry floating around on drugs.

Wake up.

We're not some half ass country like Holland. No, we happen to be the world's lone superpower, and if we want to stay that way, drugging up our citizens is the opposite way of going about it.

Hellllll oooooooo

And stop trying to make your position sound noble and just. It just comes off as total bullcr@p.

Face it, the libs just wanna get their buzzzzzz on. duh

End of story.

[Cure]

Here's a couple more...

According to the latest statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, more than two million men and women are now behind bars in the United States.1 The country that holds itself out as the "land of freedom" incarcerates a higher percentage of its people than any other country. The human costs — wasted lives, wrecked families, troubled children — are incalculable, as are the adverse social, economic and political consequences of weakened communities, diminished opportunities for economic mobility, and extensive disenfranchisement.

Contrary to popular perception, violent crime is not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States since 1980. In fact, violent crime rates have been relatively constant or declining over the past two decades. The exploding prison population has been propelled by public policy changes that have increased the use of prison sentences as well as the length of time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release.

Although these policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, they have instead yielded high rates of confinement of nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes.2 Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates are held for violent offenses.3

Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.4

Even more troubling than the absolute number of persons in jail or prison is the extent to which those men and women are African-American. Although blacks account for only 12 percent of the U.S. population, 44 percent of all prisoners in the United States are black (Figure 1).

Census data for 2000,which included a count of the number and race of all individuals incarcerated in the United States, reveals the dramatic racial disproportion of the incarcerated population in each state: the proportion of blacks in prison populations exceeds the proportion among state residents in every single state. In twenty states, the percent of blacks incarcerated is at least five times greater than their share of resident population (Figure 2).

---------

http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/fea/20060331/202/1804

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/27/INGD3KNS441.DTL

---------

Society locks up drug suppliers for multiple reasons. Drug sellers cause great harm because of the addiction they facilitate and the crime and disorder that their markets cause. Thus there is a retributive purpose for the imprisonment. Still, sentences can exceed what mere retribution might require. Perhaps the most infamous example is that in federal courts the possession of 5 grams of crack cocaine will generate a five-year mandatory minimum sentence, compared with a national average time served for homicide of about five years and four months, even though that $400 worth of crack is just one fifty-millionth of U.S. annual cocaine consumption, or about two weeks’ supply for one regular user.


http://www.issues.org/23.1/caulkins.html

http://www.justicepolicy.org/news/news060112drugs-race.dwt

[RavenPoe]

RavenPoe- While you try to figure out what I am, I'll continue to know what you are.

Well, that about confirms it. You dodge just like a republican as well. Eluding only makes your case look weak. I have always said exactly what I am and I never waver.

Libertarianism is a pigeonholed philosophy to begin with. What I said stands. If you are for freedom for industry and against freedom for individuals, you are a republican. The way you buddy up to the conservatives here only helps to prove it.

[Montrovant]

Peter North, are you for alcohol prohibition? From your posts I get the impression you would be, since you seem to think having any kind of recreational drug available to the public legally will lead to everyone getting f***ed up constantly.

I truly don't understand people who believe alcohol being legal is fine, whereas pot being legal is horrible. If you are against alcohol being legal, then that's a different story.

And just to make it clear before anyone ends up making claims about my life, I neither do drugs nor drink. I still would like to see marijuana legalized.

[York Hunt]

Well, that about confirms it. You dodge just like a republican as well. Eluding only makes your case look weak. I have always said exactly what I am and I never waver.

Libertarianism is a pigeonholed philosophy to begin with. What I said stands. If you are for freedom for industry and against freedom for individualas, you are a republican. The way you buddy up to the conservatives here only helps to prove it.

I don't really call myself anything. If your opinion is that I'm a Republican, hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

Let's talk about you and your effeminate ideology. You're a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. :lol:

That puts you immediately in the "Emasculated Pansy" category.

You're a naive Marxist who obviously has some real disdain for humanity. Only a misanthrope would be a liberal. Only a real hater would want to degrade people with the idea that they are unable to take care of themselves.

Go ahead, lend a helping hand. Emasculate more men into your realm of estrogen ya frickin tulip!

:lol:

[Cure]

Hey York Hunt,
You going to read any of the information presented, or just accuse people of being emasculated tulip pansy whatevers? You asked for information on drug arrests, it has been provided.

[York Hunt]

Nobody is being thrown into prison for casual marijuana use and you know it. Nobody has even come close to proving that.

[Peter North]

Montrovant, with alcohol the cat has long been out of the bag. You can't put it back in -- see prohibition. "Drugs" are still in the bag, and they most definitely need to remain there.

Cure, the druggies that end up being put in prision are there because that is where they belong. You get put in prision if you belong there. Casual reefer tokers don't end up in prison, and pressing on with this concept is only making you look the fool.

[RavenPoe]

As I stated, I know a casual user who spent 6 years at Camp Hill state prison. He was growing his own plants for himself and was labeled a drug manufacturer because he had reservations about buying drugs that ultimately come from South American murderers. That's America for you.

Yorakunt,

You call me a pansy on these boards. You'd ball like the little foul mouthed baby that you are in person. Your kind doesn't fool anyone. Being an asshole to women doesn't make you a man, it makes you a coward. You would cower in the presence of a real man. It's likely that you've never seen a real man. Your dad is likely a pencil neck wine sipper type. Just go ahead and have the sex change so you lose some of that hate.

[Jaguar Rick]

Nobody is being thrown into prison for casual marijuana use and you know it. Nobody has even come close to proving that.

Yor kHunt, Did you just awake from a century-long coma? Simple possession has placed many in jails and prisons. Not long ago in Texas a guy was sentenced to life as a habitual offender for a shoplifting and two charges of possessing cannabis.
I have read many of your posts, and there are so many contradictions I believe you are just arguing to be arguing. You calling anybody a tulip is hillarious. A lot like being called ugly by a frog.

[York Hunt]

As I stated, I know a casual user who spent 6 years at Camp Hill state prison. He was growing his own plants for himself and was labeled a drug manufacturer because he had reservations about buying drugs that ultimately come from South American murderers. That's America for you.

He wasn't merely "labeled a drug manufacturer"

He is a drug manufacturer.

He knew he was breaking the law. Instead of going ahead and doing so, he should have been responsible and promoted legalization and voted for candidates that feel the same way he does.

But no. He decided to break the law and now you're crying "That's America"

You ignorant schmuck. You talk about "America" as if it's a persona with some offensive personality.

If you don't like the laws, get them changed, mensa.

You call me a pansy on these boards. You'd ball like the little foul mouthed baby that you are in person.

Is that a threat, fatso?

Your kind doesn't fool anyone. Being an asshole to women doesn't make you a man, it makes you a coward.

You're a woman? :lol:

I had no idea!

You would cower in the presence of a real man. It's likely that you've never seen a real man. Your dad is likely a pencil neck wine sipper type. Just go ahead and have the sex change so you lose some of that hate.

My father was a former Marine who could bench over 320. He's also dead. He kicked my ass numerous times and I took it like a man.

I didn't know you were a chick. Not that I would have treated you any differently. I thought libs were about equality and you go the "I'm a woman" card?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[York Hunt]

Simple possession has placed many in jails and prisons.

Simple possesion with no priors? Riiiiiiiight. Link?

If you're on probation or parole and you are carrying weed, you're a DUMBF U C K.

:lol:




Not long ago in Texas a guy was sentenced to life as a habitual offender for a shoplifting and two charges of possessing cannabis.


"habitual offender?"

case closed.

Why do you people insist on kicking your own asses like this?

You throw out one or two examples of f-ups on parole getting popped for weed and this proves that casual users are being chucked into the pokey en masse?

BWAHAAHAHA!!!!

I've rarely heard anything more untrue.

[RavenPoe]

Your dad was a candy ass just like you. Are you transsexual? Is that your deal? Your dad wore high heels, didn't he? Your mom was the marine who could bench 320. BTW, your dad's not dead just because he came out of the closet. :lol:

[Cure]

Montrovant, with alcohol the cat has long been out of the bag. You can't put it back in -- se