Why The World Sucks...

[Ellis]

The world is messed up... from starvation to violence. Look, it is one thing to attack an enemy who is going to try and kill you, but the problem is that no one tries to fix things in the long term... by ending starvation, ending violence, giving everyone an equal chance for education, and guaranteeing everyone social justice and liberties.

Capitalists tell you that can never happen, but the fact of the matter is that there is enough food in the world to feed everyone, so it is possible.

It's just messed up... it makes me wonder how people can have such little compassion for other human beings... people are selfish... the world is just messed up. It could be a better place, where everyone was guaranteed the things that I mentioned, but people refuse to believe that it is possible. Those are the people holding it back...

I would say that the best form of government is democratic socialism. Martin Luther King Jr. was in favor of it, Albert Einstein was in favor it, and I am sure Gandhi would have been too. You don't want business to be run by the government, but you want it regulated to where greedy capitalists can't take advantage of workers and consumers. The privileged need to feel some compassion toward the unprivileged and realize that it is our responsibility to help the people of the world out and end suffering.

We don't need utopia... we just need a place where we can all get along and we can all start at on an equal playing field and somewhere that it is fair and just for everyone...

[IntheNet]

It's just messed up... it makes me wonder how people can have such little compassion for other human beings... people are selfish...

Ellis: You may wish to investigate the African Humanitarian Aid programs; through CARE, and its millions of supporters in the United States and other nations, millions of barrels and bags of grain are disseminated to poor nations all the time! Quite benovolent!

I would say that the best form of government is democratic socialism...

I like capitalism in a democracy; everyone earns their own way in a free society; I love it!

[CKFresh]

ending starvation, ending violence, giving everyone an equal chance for education, and guaranteeing everyone social justice and liberties.


Those in power don't want this. Their power and wealth is based off the suffering and exploitation of the world.

it makes me wonder how people can have such little compassion for other human beings

No need to wonder, I will tell you. Over half of this country has no compassion. They want to dismantle welfare, do away with social programs, lower minimum wage, out-source jobs, take oil from other poor nations, attack the wrong countries (killing over 100,000 people), oppress minorities, provide limited emergency relief, provide even less for the veterans, and give more money to the wealthy through tax cuts.

It could be a better place, where everyone was guaranteed the things that I mentioned, but people refuse to believe that it is possible.

Of course it could. But then rich could only have 5 SUVs, 4 boats, a 3 summer homes. That would not be fair to them. I mean, why should they have to sacrifice anything...


I would say that the best form of government is democratic socialism.

Of course it is. That is why the rest of the civilized world has realized this. The US is simply 50 years behind because of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. It will take the next Democratic president the entire term just to begin to repair the damages of neo-conservative philosophy. We might never be able to heal the international wounds their philosophy has created.

we just need a place where we can all get along and we can all start at on an equal playing field and somewhere that it is fair and just for everyone

Such a simple idea, but with certain people who refuse to look at the world objectively, and are too stubborn to admit their philosphy is wrong, this will never happen. There are people in this country who still think Iraq attack us on 9/11, people who think welfare should be entirely cut out of the budget, people who think we should spend more death (weapons) than life (food, and aid), people who are too worried about their "right" to have a gun than they are worried about feeding the homeless, people who are more worried about gays marrying than improving the environment.

Ellis,
You give me some faith that there are still a few people out there that actually think. However the more I look at our country the more I think that the people in this nation have stopped thinking critically. It is all about the political party and not the greater good. It is all about power and war instead of compassion and understanding.

This country needs another JFK. But we won't get him. As soon as one comes along, he will be torn apart because he has been divorced, or protested Vietnam. Once again, politics and greed come before the greater good in this country, and that is not going to change.

[IntheNet]

This country needs another JFK.

Forget him... We need another George S. Patton; throw in an Eisenhower and we'll be fine!

[DETMURDS]

Ok, each of you ask yourself, "why are there countries with starving people?" The answer for most is the corrupt government, or terrorist group that is running it! It happens way too much, and I am sure that some of you would be against it if we were to fight those "bad guys" to allow the good people living there to eat food that we are eager to give them via world charity groups.

[CKFresh]

"why are there countries with starving people?"

It is because of exploitation and the lasting effects of imperialism or colonialism. Many of these corrupt govenments you speak of were either put in place by the US or other western countries.

Typical conservative speak. You blame those who are being exploited and enslaved as opposed to the people who created the situation. Take a history lesson. Africa isn't a mess because those people "can't get their act together." Third world nations have been exploited for centuries and pitted against each other so that western countries can profiteer from the wars and strip these countries of there resources.

[Marc]

Ellis, I thought you had made your last post here? You know, the time when you took half-truths and false assumptions and called me a bunch of names? For such a lousy job I do at running this site, you sure can't stay away from it.

What you said is true. Yes, the world would be better if we were all unselfish. But let me remind you ... it isn't the capitalists blowing up each other in Iraq, it's religious zealots. It wasn't greedy businessmen who crashed planes into the WTC, was it? The world has far bigger problems than greed. But as I grow older, I realize you are on your own. You have to stand up for yourself because no one else will.

[KevinBeane]

Ellis, I thought you had made your last post here? You know, the time when you took half-truths and false assumptions and called me a bunch of names? For such a lousy job I do at running this site, you sure can't stay away from it.



Well, that's why he asked you to ban him: Martyrdom only works if you are fired, not if you quit.

[Ellis]

Well, that's why he asked you to ban him: Martyrdom only works if you are fired, not if you quit.

I didn't post in here to cause any trouble... well said Kevin... I asked to be banned for a reason...

On the subject... the rich capitalists aren't the ones fighting our wars, it is primarily the poor who have no better options.

As I grow older, I realize that purity is the most important thing that you can have and that the dreams of a child... the dreams of an orderly world, a fair world, and a peaceful world... are the most important things you can have.

The world can be a good place, but we can't let the greed of a few powerful men and a few powerful corporations take advantage of the hard working people of America... the people who are at the mercy of their bosses and at the mercy of money...

We need to start by fixing our nation and then work on fixing the world... ridding it of the roots of violence...

[CKFresh]

What you said is true. Yes, the world would be better if we were all unselfish. But let me remind you ... it isn't the capitalists blowing up each other in Iraq, it's religious zealots. It wasn't greedy businessmen who crashed planes into the WTC, was it? The world has far bigger problems than greed. But as I grow older, I realize you are on your own. You have to stand up for yourself because no one else will.

Marc, we need to understand the whole picture, instead of simply saying, "it isn't the capitalists blowing up each other in Iraq, it's religious zealots." Of course there are crazy people in the middle-east. But there are several reasons these crazy people can recruit so many young people to do their dirty work. The US and the western world has exploited the rest of the world for centuries, and we are paying the price for that. As long as we continue to fight unjust wars in foreign lands, and exploit the labor or resources of poor nations, we will always be under attack by the extreme terrorists. The only way to beat these people is to take away their recruitment tools. We can not win this war militarily. They are in every country and in every color. The only way to win this war is through good foreign policy and compassion.

[Marc]

The US and the western world has exploited the rest of the world for centuries, and we are paying the price for that. As long as we continue to fight unjust wars in foreign lands, and exploit the labor or resources of poor nations, we will always be under attack by the extreme terrorists. The only way to beat these people is to take away their recruitment tools. We can not win this war militarily. They are in every country and in every color. The only way to win this war is through good foreign policy and compassion.
But surely the U.S. cannot be blamed for all the Middle East's problems. I blame corrupt and tyrannical governments in places like Saudi Arabia because it is they who hoard all the oil wealth and keep it in the hands of few, rather than spreading it to all their citizens. There is incredible wealth in the Middle East, but the governments are to blame. I agree we shouldn't be involved in Iraq and such, but I lost all "compassion" on 9/11.

[CKFresh]

But surely the U.S. cannot be blamed for all the Middle East's problems. I blame corrupt and tyrannical governments in places like Saudi Arabia because it is they who hoard all the oil wealth and keep it in the hands of few, rather than spreading it to all their citizens. There is incredible wealth in the Middle East, but the governments are to blame. I agree we shouldn't be involved in Iraq and such, but I lost all "compassion" on 9/11.

Of course the US isn't to blame for all the problems, but I would say at least half.

These corrupt governments you speak of (Saudi Arabi) are either supported by the US or were put in place by the US. Remember, the US armed Saddam Hussein in the 80s. Remember, we still support the corrupt government is Saudi Arabia.

Not compassion for the 9/11 hijackers, instead for the children of these antions. We need to show US compassion before they are able to be brain washed by the sickos and terrorists in these nations. Surely we can't get to all of them, but wars in Iraq only help the recruitment process for Al Qaeda and others.

[IntheNet]

Remember, we still support the corrupt government is Saudi Arabia.

Do you think about what you recommend? Exactly what should we do about Saudi Arabia? And if we do, are you prepared for the consequences?

How would you feel paying $8.00/gallon for gas? Answer that... The United States frequently condemns the House of Saud and issues condemnation on practices it deems barbaric or horrific when they are presented. But in terms of our reliance upon its oil, exactly what would you recommend in terms of Saudi Arabia?

[CKFresh]

How would you feel paying $8.00/gallon for gas? Answer that... The United States frequently condemns the House of Saud and issues condemnation on practices it deems barbaric or horrific when they are presented. But in terms of our reliance upon its oil, exactly what would you recommend in terms of Saudi Arabia?

Here's a novel idea: SWITCH TO ALTERNATIVE FUELS! They are available and ready to be used. Why don't we use them yet? Because this administration is in bed with the oil companies. Georgie's buddies would go out of business if we switched to alterantive fuels.

There are people in this country running cars on the grease that is left over from frying machines, like the ones at McDonalds. Trust me, we could end our dependence on oil within a year if the government and big business would allow us.

[IntheNet]

Here's a novel idea: SWITCH TO ALTERNATIVE FUELS!

Good idea but can't be done overnight unless you want a depression... our reliance upon internal combustion engines goes back 100 years now... we can't switch overnight.

They are available and ready to be used. Why don't we use them yet?

Cost! Matter of fact that pushes everything else... when one can buy a regular Toyota for less than half the cost of a hybrid, why switch? Alternative fuel vehicles cost more today... when alternative fuel vehicles make sense economically, they will catch on...

Because this administration is in bed with the oil companies.

Oh cripes Fresh... stop believing that liberal propaganda for once will you? Oil companies don't need Bush to drive consumerism... They're doing the same now that they did when Bubba was in White House...

There are people in this country running cars on the grease that is left over from frying machines, like the ones at McDonalds. Trust me, we could end our dependence on oil within a year if the government and big business would allow us.

Yeah we could, and run our economy into depression too. Given a healthy economy or a healthy planet I'll take healthy economy every time? Why? Because I am human. You too. We can't bankrupt humanity at the expense of ecology.

[CKFresh]

Alternative fuel vehicles cost more today... when alternative fuel vehicles make sense economically, they will catch on...

What kind of cost? Maybe financially we would take a hit, but so would the Arabs. If it means we don't have to support a terrorist government, I'd be willing to take the economic hit.

Oh cripes Fresh... stop believing that liberal propaganda for once will you? Oil companies don't need Bush to drive consumerism... They're doing the same now that they did when Bubba was in White House...

Fair enough, let me rephrase: "Because the entire US government is in bed with the oil companies." Not just republicans. Our government is run by the companies that support the candidates. Oil companies are some of the largests.

We can't bankrupt humanity at the expense of ecology.

Not just ecology, safety as well.

[catman]

With the size of the hybrid cars, I wouldn't say safety is their strength. The Ford Escape hybrid, on the other hand, looks quite intriguing. I may take a look at one when my Tracker gives it up (in a couple of years, hopefully).
I seriously considered a Prius or Accord hybrid when I was shopping for a new car a couple of years ago, but couldn't see spending an additional $10K just for the novelty. Also, my insurance would have been about 15% higher on it.
As to alternative fuels, ethanol can be produced to sell at about $1.50/gallon, with a reasonable profit for the producer built in. Bio-diesel is only slightly more expensive than diesel from petroleum, and both benefit American farmers by offering them higher prices for their crops. They are win-win-win situations, as they have been shown by the Argon National lab in Chicago to burn about 25% cleaner than standard fuels.

[CKFresh]

With the size of the hybrid cars, I wouldn't say safety is their strength. The Ford Escape hybrid, on the other hand, looks quite intriguing. I may take a look at one when my Tracker gives it up (in a couple of years, hopefully).
I seriously considered a Prius or Accord hybrid when I was shopping for a new car a couple of years ago, but couldn't see spending an additional $10K just for the novelty. Also, my insurance would have been about 15% higher on it.
As to alternative fuels, ethanol can be produced to sell at about $1.50/gallon, with a reasonable profit for the producer built in. Bio-diesel is only slightly more expensive than diesel from petroleum, and both benefit American farmers by offering them higher prices for their crops. They are win-win-win situations, as they have been shown by the Argon National lab in Chicago to burn about 25% cleaner than standard fuels.

catman,

You sound like a liberal here! :eek:

Good post! :thumbup:

[catman]

Fresh, I am what is known as a classic liberal. I believe in tolerance and "live and let live" attitudes.

[CKFresh]

Fresh, I am what is known as a classic liberal. I believe in tolerance and "live and let live" attitudes.

I gotcha. I think you and I would agree on a lot of things. It just happens that a lot of the "hot" issues are the ones we are in disagreement about.

[catman]

Well, if that is the way it is, that is the way it is. I am not one that falls into an easy category. I am a "free-thinker" and decide what is best for me on every issue.

[CKFresh]

http://photos21.flickr.com/34381144_3fbce5ddb0.jpg

[CKFresh]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[catman]

Not necessarily, Fresh.
This is one area I guess I'd disagree with the Baptists on.

[catman]

That is funny, though.

[CKFresh]

This is one area I guess I'd disagree with the Baptists on.

This may not be something that all baptists agree on, let's keep that in mind. This could very well be one cooky preacher.

But that's a pretty appropriate picture for all of our conversations leading to your last comment, if I do say so myself...

[IntheNet]

I just got my annual bonus check (Yeah... three months after it was suppose to be delivered) so for me, THE WORLD IS ROSY AND BEAUTIFUL!

Onward to the gun store... :lol:

[CKFresh]

Onward to the gun store...

I hope you feel you have compensated for those areas you lack with that "big gun" you buy :lol: :lol: :lol:

Does that gun make you feel like a real man?

[IntheNet]

Does that gun make you feel like a real man?

Yup! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzri8dn7p0)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DETMURDS]

I hope you feel you have compensated for those areas you lack with that "big gun" you buy :lol: :lol: :lol:

Does that gun make you feel like a real man?

Hope that dope you smoke makes you feel like a happy person too! Why smoke it? Are you not happy with reality in the life that you live? You don't have to answer that here, just answer yourself!

[Montrovant]

Just curious....do you drink at all Detmurds? :)

[CKFresh]

Hope that dope you smoke makes you feel like a happy person too! Why smoke it? Are you not happy with reality in the life that you live? You don't have to answer that here, just answer yourself!

As Monto is pointing out, I do it for the same reason most people drink (and if you think marijuana is any worse than alcohol you are terribly misinformed.)

Counter-question:

WHy would you give a sh**?

[IntheNet]

(and if you think marijuana is any worse than alcohol you are terribly misinformed.)

any worse than? :rolleyes:

According to the law?

[CKFresh]

any worse than?

According to the law?

The law also says that punching a man in the face is worse than an abortion, do you agree with the law there?

The law isn't always right when it comes to "right and wrong," would you agree?

[IntheNet]

The law isn't always right when it comes to "right and wrong," would you agree?

I agree... but that's not the issue here despite you telling us it is.... according to the law (most states) marijuanna is far worse...

[CKFresh]

according to the law (most states) marijuanna is far worse...

Fine. According to doctors, toxicologists, and the number of deaths each one causes - alcohol is worse.

Sorry, I trust medical experts with my health more than the law. As I said, the law doesn't always get it right.

Legally, marjuana is worse. In terms of health, alcohol is worse.

[IntheNet]

Legally, marjuana is worse...

Okay... just wanted that clarified. As a recovering drunk I know the dangers of booze so you don't have to beat that horn... but legally is the only measure here.....

[CKFresh]

Okay... just wanted that clarified. As a recovering drunk I know the dangers of booze so you don't have to beat that horn... but legally is the only measure here.....

Fair enough, and I simply wanted to clarify that the lagality of something doesn't always determine the true dangers, or what is "right or wrong."

Anyone want to get high? :lol:

[DETMURDS]

As Monto is pointing out, I do it for the same reason most people drink (and if you think marijuana is any worse than alcohol you are terribly misinformed.)

Counter-question:

WHy would you give a sh**?

I doubt it, because drinking isn't against the law,....please don't break the law in my COUNTRY! Many dope smokers in prison as well,...enough said!

Please, your comments are jsut "apples and oranges"! Make a smart comparision ok?

[Montrovant]

Considering that this all stemmed from your comments about 'escaping reality' Detmurds, I don't see how it's 'apples and oranges'. Marijuana and alcohol are both drugs, and while one is illegal and the other is not, I don't think that has a lot of bearing on why they are used. Generally I think, both are used, if not to escape reality, then at least in an attempt to have fun or feel good. Just because pot is illegal, doesn't mean that isn't why people use it, as CK pointed out.

It doesn't mean people SHOULD do it, just giving a reason why.

[CKFresh]

Please, your comments are jsut "apples and oranges"! Make a smart comparision ok?

You're right, I guess it is "apples and oranges" because Alcohol is much more dangerous and harmful to society. Alcohol killed more people in the time it takes me to write this post than marijuana has in the history of the world. Alcohol causes abusive husbands and violence. Marijuana cases the munchies and good music...

[Montrovant]

You're right, I guess it is "apples and oranges" because Alcohol is much more dangerous and harmful to society. Alcohol killed more people in the time it takes me to write this post than marijuana has in the history of the world. Alcohol causes abusive husbands and violence. Marijuana cases the munchies and good music...

Let's be fair here, it causes some really bad music too!

[CKFresh]

Let's be fair here, it causes some really bad music too!

Lol, very true...:lol:

And some annoying stoners (Cheech and Chong types).

[DETMURDS]

Considering that this all stemmed from your comments about 'escaping reality' Detmurds, I don't see how it's 'apples and oranges'. Marijuana and alcohol are both drugs, and while one is illegal and the other is not, I don't think that has a lot of bearing on why they are used. Generally I think, both are used, if not to escape reality, then at least in an attempt to have fun or feel good. Just because pot is illegal, doesn't mean that isn't why people use it, as CK pointed out.

It doesn't mean people SHOULD do it, just giving a reason why.

An attempt you say,...so are they not having fun already, or not feeling good? What a risk to take just to have fun, or feel good isn't it? Must be some issues to goas far as to breaking the law.

[CKFresh]

An attempt you say,...so are they not having fun already, or not feeling good? What a risk to take just to have fun, or feel good isn't it? Must be some issues to goas far as to breaking the law.

Do you ever speed in your car DET? In many states, possession of Marijuana is no worse than a speeding ticket. So it's not really that big of a risk. You risk a 100 dollar fine for feeling great, without a hangover. Pot can't kill you and there are limited side effects.

So, for many of us, the risk is not a big one at all. No more than the risk of getting a speeding ticket is for you.

[DETMURDS]

Do you ever speed in your car DET? In many states, possession of Marijuana is no worse than a speeding ticket. So it's not really that big of a risk. You risk a 100 dollar fine for feeling great, without a hangover. Pot can't kill you and there are limited side effects.

So, for many of us, the risk is not a big one at all. No more than the risk of getting a speeding ticket is for you.

No, I never speed in my car, my job can be lost if I get a bad driving record. What I am telling you is I DON'T BREAK THE LAW! EVER!

I know that many people will lie, and break laws to please themselves, but that doesn't make it ok. Example: I really dislike how someone will make thier child lie and say they are under 12 to get into a movie theatre when he or she is really 13, or 14 years old. It does many things, but the worst is it is a bad example to the child!

[CKFresh]

What I am telling you is I DON'T BREAK THE LAW! EVER!

Well, you are an exception to the rule. Most people speed occasionally, or have run a stop sign by accident. I don't think you would codemn these people too much for those crimes. What I am telling you is that in my state (and many others) smoking pot is no worse than those offenses. No big deal really.

[DETMURDS]

Hey CK, I did an edit to my last post.

[CKFresh]

I know that many people will lie, and break laws to please themselves, but that doesn't make it ok.

I agree, but there are degrees of right and wrong, and the law isn't always right. I would counter by saying, just because someone follows the law, it doesn't make them "right." For instance, an abortion doctor who never breaks a law in his life, would you say he lived a good live in the "right?" I don't think so. Some laws are flawed, like the War on Drugs (in my opinion) and the War on the Unborn (in your opinion). Laws are made by failable humans.

[CKFresh]

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, and just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.

[CKFresh]

The situation you cited effects other people. If I smoke a joint no one else is effected. It is a victimless crime.

[DETMURDS]

I agree, but there are degrees of right and wrong, and the law isn't always right. I would counter by saying, just because someone follows the law, it doesn't make them "right." For instance, an abortion doctor who never breaks a law in his life, would you say he lived a good live in the "right?" I don't think so. Some laws are flawed, like the War on Drugs (in my opinion) and the War on the Unborn (in your opinion). Laws are made by failable humans.


I don't really have a problem with the doctor, it is the fault of all those irresponsible women, who break the laws of God, and pays the doctor(s) for the abortion(s). Our end result is, they are keeping the doctor in business.

Not much one can do about it as long as it isn't illegal, all we can do is pray for them, and hope this law changes.

[DETMURDS]

The situation you cited effects other people. If I smoke a joint no one else is effected. It is a victimless crime.

Ok, it was smuggled in from Mexico,...therefore it is illegal already before it even got to you.

[CKFresh]

Ok, it was smuggled in from Mexico,...therefore it is illegal already before it even got to you.

Nope, only crappy pot comes from Mexico. The stuff I use is grown in the good old U S of A.

Even if it were from Mexico, your argument is only one more reason to make it legal. Instead of criminals are foreigners profitting, let US business and the federal government profit off of something that is going to happen either way.

[DETMURDS]

Nope, only crappy pot comes from Mexico. The stuff I use is grown in the good old U S of A.

Even if it were from Mexico, your argument is only one more reason to make it legal. Instead of criminals are foreigners profitting, let US business and the federal government profit off of something that is going to happen either way.

Ladies, and Gentlemen,...this is only one reason why we have so many issues in our great country.

I rest my case!:thumbdown:

[CKFresh]

Ladies, and Gentlemen,...this is only one reason why we have so many issues in our great country.

I rest my case!:thumbdown:

:thumbup:

Good point, or lack there of... :lol:

[DETMURDS]

I don't really have a problem with the doctor, it is the fault of all those irresponsible women, who break the laws of God, and pays the doctor(s) for the abortion(s). Our end result is, they are keeping the doctor in business.

Not much one can do about it as long as it isn't illegal, all we can do is pray for them, and hope this law changes.

It appears you have dodged this post CKFresh.

Hey, if it isn't too late, join the fantasy baseball league,..it would be fun to have you there CKFresh!:thumbup:

[CKFresh]

It appears you have dodged this post CKFresh.

Hey, if it isn't too late, join the fantasy baseball league,..it would be fun to have you there CKFresh!:thumbup:

I'm not sure what you want to say about the issue you mentioned here. I can't convince you that abortion is necessary, and you can't convince me that it is not. Kind of a "dead horse" no?

I will check it out, you guys haven't drafted yet?

[DETMURDS]

I'm not sure what you want to say about the issue you mentioned here. I can't convince you that abortion is necessary, and you can't convince me that it is not. Kind of a "dead horse" no?

I will check it out, you guys haven't drafted yet?

Tomorrow afternoon is the draft.