Bong Hits for Jesus

[CKFresh]

I don't even know what to say about this story. It is very interesting, no matter what you think. LOL

Bong Hits For Jesus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17687386/)

[DETMURDS]

As stupid of a thing this is,..they do have the right to freedom of speech, but if it is against school rules, the suspension was right.

When I joined the military in 84, I waived many rights that I had as a civilian,...therefore, if one makes an agreement on something, they are possibly waiving some rights in the same manner.

[CKFresh]

Yeah, I have no problem with the suspension really. I just thought it was a funny story. I knew it would get a few laughs and anger a few people.

Speaking of religion and pot, if Jesus were alive today, do you think he'd smoke the reefer? I do, he was basically a hippy right?

[Montrovant]

The important question seems to be whether or not he can be considered to have been 'in school' for the event. According to the article, it was considered a school sponsered event because they allowed students to leave classes for it.....but that this student had not gone to school before this happened.

I remember when I first saw this story, it was funny then, too :)

[IntheNet]

I don't even know what to say about this story. It is very interesting, no matter what you think. LOL

Bong Hits For Jesus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17687386/)

It is cases like these that surface the idea of a limited "free speech" clause instituted in the First Amendment for collegiate morons that seem to abuse the priviledge. This trial period will extend free speech to elementary children from ages 1-21 under a conditional period... Clearly the gang that prompted this issue would have their free speech rights revoked.

[catman]

Yeah, I have no problem with the suspension really. I just thought it was a funny story. I knew it would get a few laughs and anger a few people.

Speaking of religion and pot, if Jesus were alive today, do you think he'd smoke the reefer? I do, he was basically a hippy right?

I do not speak for Jesus, but I doubt if he'd smoke pot. As it says in the Bible, the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and one should treat it as such.

[CKFresh]

I do not speak for Jesus, but I doubt if he'd smoke pot. As it says in the Bible, the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, and one should treat it as such.

Hmmm, so he wouldn't drink either... :(

Sounds like a party pooper to me

[CKFresh]

It is cases like these that surface the idea of a limited "free speech" clause instituted in the First Amendment for collegiate morons that seem to abuse the priviledge. This trial period will extend free speech to elementary children from ages 1-21 under a conditional period... Clearly the gang that prompted this issue would have their free speech rights revoked.

IntheNet,
Some of your hateful rants have made me question the "freedom of speech" in this country as well. But then I think about it and say, if people want to say things and look silly while doing so, let them. This kid made a statement, and no one was hurt. He has that right, as he should.

[catman]

It also says "all things in moderation", Fresh. Don't feel so down.

[CKFresh]

It also says "all things in moderation", Fresh. Don't feel so down.

:lol:

Ok, then I'm good. I do adhere by that bit of wisdom.

[IntheNet]

This kid made a statement, and no one was hurt. He has that right, as he should.

Does he? Or are you tolerating it simply because it smears a religion which you don't give two cents about? I wonder if I could rewrite that poster which was exhibited would you be as tolerant?

[DETMURDS]

The important question seems to be whether or not he can be considered to have been 'in school' for the event. According to the article, it was considered a school sponsered event because they allowed students to leave classes for it.....but that this student had not gone to school before this happened.

I remember when I first saw this story, it was funny then, too :)

I remember a guy that got suspended because one of the teachers seen him smoking, and he wasn't even on school property.

[CKFresh]

IntheNet

Actually, i support your right, along with the crazy fundamentalists Christians' right to say anything you want.

[IntheNet]

Actually, i support your right, along with the crazy fundamentalists Christians' right to say anything you want.

Do you?

Why didn't you protest to ACLU that school lose its government education funding because it was advancing a religious message?

[CKFresh]

Do you?

Why didn't you protest to ACLU that school lose its government education funding because it was advancing a religious message?

I said I support your right to SAY whatever you want, not brainwash my child in a place of education.

[CKFresh]

You can stand on the street corner every day and preach. You can get on this board and talk about Jesus. You can call my house, or visit my house, and try to convince me. But don't force your religion in a public school, that's against the law. Our state (public school) does not adopt a religion, you did take history classes in school and know about the "Freedom of religion" right? Brainwashing in public schools impedes one's right to freedom of religion.

[IntheNet]

But don't force your religion in a public school....

So you are against these kids, their free speech rights, and their display of a religious leaders name on a banner huh?

[CKFresh]

So you are against these kids, their free speech rights, and their display of a religious leaders name on a banner huh?

Yes, as I said, I have no problem with the suspension. They are free to SAY whatever they want outside of school.

[DETMURDS]

You can stand on the street corner every day and preach. You can get on this board and talk about Jesus. You can call my house, or visit my house, and try to convince me. But don't force your religion in a public school, that's against the law. Our state (public school) does not adopt a religion, you did take history classes in school and know about the "Freedom of religion" right? Brainwashing in public schools impedes one's right to freedom of religion.

You also have the right to worship the devil, that is one's freedom of religion! What is your point? Don't you see, by demonstrating this, one is showing thier freedom of religion.

Now, nobody is making these kids go to school if you really think about it, but they probably do want the diploma too,...therefore they must follow the rules of the school.

[CKFresh]

Now, nobody is making these kids go to school if you really think about it, but they probably do want the diploma too,...therefore they must follow the rules of the school.

Right, and the school must follow the laws of the nation. ONe of the laws is that the government shall not sponsor any ONE religion. By promoting a single religion in a school, the law is being broken. And we all know how you feel about breaking the law....

[IntheNet]

ONe of the laws is that the government shall not sponsor any ONE religion. By promoting a single religion in a school, the law is being broken...

Note highlighted words. How is school sponsoring or promoting religion?

[CKFresh]

Note highlighted words. How is school sponsoring or promoting religion?

You brought up the school that lost funding, "because it was advancing a religious message."

That is promoting religion and sponsoring it...

[IntheNet]

:lol: You brought up the school that lost funding, "because it was advancing a religious message."

That is promoting religion and sponsoring it...

Is it? I don't see that!

Is Los Angeles School District promoting and sponsoring Christianity via its name for angels?

Is Saint Louis, Missouri promoting and sponsoring Christianity via its name for a patron saint?

You have to dig pretty deep to legally find "promoting and sponsoring" a religion by simply mentioning it!

Does school promote religion since its employees are paid funds on the U.S. Treasury whose money invokes "In God We Trust"?

I bet those Arabs just burn dollar bills all day in protest! :lol:

[CKFresh]

Is Los Angeles School District promoting and sponsoring Christianity vis its name for angels?

Is Saint Louis, Missouri promoting and sponsoring Christianity vis its name for a patron saint?

No, they are not indoctrinating anyone with any belief or religion, simply paying tribute to a symbol within the religion that the cities' founders practiced. I don't care if schools mention or even talk about religion, it is the "advancing a religious message," part that crosses the line. It's real simple actually.

Does school promote religion since its employees are paid funds on the U.S. Treasury whose money invokes "In God We Trust"?

Again, no, it's a very basic concept. Talk about religion in school all you want. Just don't advocate one over another... How is that hard to understand?

[DETMURDS]

Hey, the New Orleans Saints should have to pay "the church"! I don't see anyone getting offended by the name either.

[CKFresh]

Hey, the New Orleans Saints should have to pay "the church"! I don't see anyone getting offended by the name either.

Again, no one is offended by names (except for native americans). It is the MESSAGE behind what you teach children in schools. If you want to teach religion in schools, go to private schools or home school. Public schools are for facts...

[DETMURDS]

Again, no one is offended by names (except for native americans). It is the MESSAGE behind what you teach children in schools. If you want to teach religion in schools, go to private schools or home school. Public schools are for facts...

Are you saying this is happening? Prove it,...as you would say!

[IntheNet]

Public schools are for facts...

That statement is funny in itself, but even more so when you mix in "My Dad Is a Monkey" Evolution Theory 101!

No, they are not indoctrinating anyone with any belief or religion, simply paying tribute to a symbol within the religion that the cities' founders practiced.

So you'd support prayers in school huh? :D

[CKFresh]

That statement is funny in itself, but even more so when you mix in "My Dad Is a Monkey" Evolution Theory 101!

Again, showing your lack of understanding of the concept.


So you'd support prayers in school huh?

Sure, you can pray anywhere you want. It's called, praying SILENTLY. God can hear you even if you don't put your hands together or say it aloud right? The only reason you would do it in groups in a school, or out loud is to piss people off. If you need pray in school, do it silently.

[IntheNet]

The only reason you would do it in groups in a school, or out loud is to piss people off...

Do you get "pissed off" when people pray? Just curious?

[CKFresh]

Do you get "pissed off" when people pray? Just curious?

No, I go to church once a week with my girlfriend and sit in a church filled with people who are praying.

[DETMURDS]

No, I go to church once a week with my girlfriend and sit in a church filled with people who are praying.

Wow, you mean you started going to church again? What made you go back? I do remember in post #124 of the Church and State thread you posting word for word, "I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible." It says you haven't been to church since you were 14.

Even though it doesn't matter, I do think you are a story teller CKFresh. You seem to make up things as they come along.

[CKFresh]

Wow, you mean you started going to church again? What made you go back? I do remember in post #124 of the Church and State thread you posting word for word, "I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible." Sounds like you stopped going when you posted that doesn't it?

Even though it doesn't matter, I do think you are a story teller CKFresh. You seem to make up things as they come along.

uhh... what the hell are you talking about.

If you'd like, i can provide you with the name, location, name of the priest, and email addresses of members of my church so you can verify my "story."

I have no reason to lie about any of this. I promise you I go to church with my girlfriend ALMOST every week. I have missed a few weeks when I am "sick" and can't go. She really get's mad so I try to avoid it. She knows I am not religious she just doesn't like going alone. Even my priest knows I don't believe in religion.

Seriously, I am not lying about this, I will copy down this weeks sermon and post it for you if you'd like proof.

[CKFresh]

"I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible." It says you haven't been to church since you were 14.

Where?......?

[DETMURDS]

CKFresh, it doesn't matter really, I am just pointing out what you said in the Church and State thread. Go ahead, look it up yourself,...you typed it in!

It is in here, it is post #124: http://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=16190&page=9

[Montrovant]

If it makes you feel any better Detmurds, I don't go to church! Haven't been inside one since a friend's wedding a few years back.

Ok, so I doubt it will make you feel better....but maybe you can talk about it and give CK time to look up that post so he can stop sounding so confused :P

On the plus side, I feel fairly certain both I and the church-goers are better off with me not going :lol:

[DETMURDS]

If it makes you feel any better Detmurds, I don't go to church! Haven't been inside one since a friend's wedding a few years back.

Ok, so I doubt it will make you feel better....but maybe you can talk about it and give CK time to look up that post so he can stop sounding so confused :P

On the plus side, I feel fairly certain both I and the church-goers are better off with me not going :lol:

That's fine Montovant, you have the freedom to make that choice. I'm just pointing out that he said he went to church until he was 14, and now he states he goes every week? Which is it? 14, or every week?

[CKFresh]

CKFresh, it doesn't matter really, I am just pointing out what you said in the Church and State thread. Go ahead, look it up yourself,...you typed it in!

Yeah, I said I went to church every day until I was 14, stopped until about 3 or 4 months ago, when my girlfriend made me start going with her. Find me one post of mine that contradicts that..

You won't...

Immaculate Heart Of Mary (http://www.ihom.org/splash.htm)

Mass Schedule (http://www.ihom.org/massschedule.htm)

You can find me at the Sunday evening mass if you want to check up on it...

[DETMURDS]

Yeah, I said I went to church every day until I was 14, stopped until about 3 or 4 months ago, when my girlfriend made me start going with her. Find me one post of mine that contradicts that..

You won't...

Immaculate Heart Of Mary (http://www.ihom.org/splash.htm)

Mass Schedule (http://www.ihom.org/massschedule.htm)

You can find me at the Sunday evening mass if you want to check up on it...

Well that post you made wasn't even 3 months ago, it was on 01-18-2007, at 08:49 AM. Did you forget that you were already going to church again? I am just stating what you posted, you made no reference to going back to church in any shape, manner, or form.

[CKFresh]

Where does that post say anything about what I do currently?

[CKFresh]

The question I was asked was about Theological classes. I said I went to Church and attended SUNDAY SCHOOL every day until I was 14. My current Chruch going had no relevence to that conversation.

Seriously, call Reverend Jan Schmidt at 513-388-4466. If you want my real name I will PM it to you and you can call him and ask him. He knows me personally and knows my views on religion.

[DETMURDS]

Where does that post say anything about what I do currently?

YOU SAY IT WHEN YOU MADE THE POST IN JANUARY! A month less than 3 or months ago.

You stated, "until I was 14", did you not?

[DETMURDS]

The question I was asked was about Theological classes. I said I went to Church and attended SUNDAY SCHOOL every day until I was 14. My current Chruch going had no relevence to that conversation.

Seriously, call Reverend Jan Schmidt at 513-388-4466. If you want my real name I will PM it to you and you can call him and ask him. He knows me personally and knows my views on religion.


It's ok, but your statement that you haven't been to church since you was 14 is a lie.

You said it, not me!

[CKFresh]

You stated, "until I was 14", did you not?

I said I "attended church" until I was 14. Did I ever say, "I never went back." Or "I haven't been since."

You are reaching here, and you look like an idiot.

Please call the church and ask for Reverend Jan

[CKFresh]

It's ok, but your statement that you haven't been to church since you was 14 is a lie.

I never said.

[DETMURDS]

Whatever,..your business anyhow.

[CKFresh]

Whatever,..your business anyhow.

Stop accusing me of saying things I never said, and there will be no problem.

[Montrovant]

Bah, my ploy to stir controversy (or at least humor) to diffuse this ridiculous argument failed :(

I guess it's the thought!

[CKFresh]

Sorry Montro, I get angry when people accuse me of lying when it is not true.

[DETMURDS]

Stop accusing me of saying things I never said, and there will be no problem.


Look, I like you, you are ok with me as I have mentioned in the past. But, when you post something saying that you haven't done it since 14 years old,...isn't that what it is suppose to mean? C'mon, you wrote it, not me, don't blame me for what you wrote.

[DETMURDS]

I'd undertand it if you said you started going again if it was say, 2 months ago, but you also stated 3-4 months ago which is a month prior to your post.

[CKFresh]

But, when you post something saying that you haven't done it since 14 years old

DETMURDS, go back and read what I said. Where did I say I haven't been back? I said I stopped going when I was 14, but I never said I haven't been since. I DID STOP GOING AT THE AGE OF 14 WHEN I WAS CONFIRMED.

You are making an assumption based on the information available I provided. I never said that which you are accusing me of.

[CKFresh]

As I said, my current status on going to church was irrelevant to the question I was asked, why would include.

[DETMURDS]

The word "until" means up to the time of! The time was ony 2 months ago you posted that. Not 3-4 months ago.

[DETMURDS]

"I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible."

It is really simple english isn't it?

[CKFresh]

The word "until" means up to the time of! The time was ony 2 months ago you posted that. Not 3-4 months ago.

Right, let me explain. "I went to church every day UNTIL I was 14." That means that after my confirmation into the Catholic church, I STOPPED GOING. You can do something UNTIL you are 14 and then begin to do it again later, and that statement still makes sense. It's really not hard to understand this.

Now... If I would have said, "I went to church until I 14 and have never been back..." You would have a point. But I didn't say that. I jsut said I stopped at the age of 14, which I did.

[DETMURDS]

Ok, do you agree with me on the definition of what "until" means?

[CKFresh]

DETMURDS,

There is an easy way to resolve this. Call the church. Ask for the Reverend. He will agree with my original statement from the other thread, and my statement on this thread. After you hang up with him, I will wait for your apology.

[CKFresh]

Ok DETMURDS.

Let's say you were an alcoholic. And you drank every day. At the age of 45 you stopped drinking for 10 years. Then, at the age of 55 you started drinking again. You could say, "I drank alcohol EVERYDAY UNTIL I WAS 45." And it would be a true statement.

[DETMURDS]

DETMURDS,

There is an easy way to resolve this. Call the church. Ask for the Reverend. He will agree with my original statement from the other thread, and my statement on this thread. After you hang up with him, I will wait for your apology.

I'm not saying you don't go to church, you said it in this sentence. Remember and heed what the word "until" means! SIMPLE!

"I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible."

[CKFresh]

I'm out, call the church, my name is Kerry.

[CKFresh]

I'm not saying you don't go to church, you said it in this sentence. Remember and heed what the word "until" means! SIMPLE!

"I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible."

Right, call the church, they will confirm that statement too...

They will say, "He came everyday until he was 14, when he stopped coming. Recently he has been coming with his girlfriend."

[DETMURDS]

Ok DETMURDS.

Let's say you were an alcoholic. And you drank every day. At the age of 45 you stopped drinking for 10 years. Then, at the age of 55 you started drinking again. You could say, "I drank alcohol EVERYDAY UNTIL I WAS 45." And it would be a true statement.


Yes, but without a follow-up statement saying I had started hitting the bottle again, it still means that the last time was when I was 45.

C'mon CKFresh, you can't be telling me you don't undertand the english language?

"I attneded Church every Sunday until I was 14. I also was forced to attend Sunday School and learn the Bible."

[CKFresh]

Yes, but without a follow-up statement saying I had started hitting the bottle again, it still means that the last time was when I was 45.

C'mon CKFresh, you can't be telling me you don't undertand the english language?

I can understand how you would misunderstand that. BUt as I said, it wasn't relevant to the conversation what my current status on going to church is, so I didn't include it. Now that I have explained it to you, it shouldn't be that hard to understand. I think are simply giving me a hard time for the hell of it. I mean, you know what I meant, it wasn't a lie, I simply didn't include a statement to "update" you on that. At that point I had only been back a few times and it wasn't important. I wasn't sure if my lady would continue to force me to go to church. Got it?

[Montrovant]

The real question here is why you allow yourself to be 'forced' into going :lol:

[CKFresh]

The real question here is why you allow yourself to be 'forced' into going :lol:

I know man, I feel like a fake. It's really not that bad. It's an hour a day to keep my woman happy. She isn't very religious though. She goes because she feels guilty. It makes her mother happy. There are nice people there and it is a good way to know the enemy :lol: (just kidding IntheNet and DETMURDS). It is basically the church of the suburb I grew up in so it is a nice way to keep in contact with former friends.

I sometime wonder if the congregation can see the eyes of the Devil when they look at me :redhot:

:lol: ;) :cool:

[IntheNet]

It's an hour a day to keep my woman happy.

Wow! I can do that in about 16 seconds... :lol:

[CKFresh]

Wow! I can do that in about 16 seconds... :lol:

Lol, you're a better man than I, I suppose...:rolleyes:

[IntheNet]

The Supreme Court still studies issue; let's hope they side with school to smack down these idiotic students and make a statement about the dangers of drugs and the respect due religious figures....

[CKFresh]

The Supreme Court still studies issue; let's hope they side with school to smack down these idiotic students and make a statement about the dangers of drugs and the respect due religious figures....

Just curious IntheNet, have you ever smoked pot?

[IntheNet]

Just curious IntheNet, have you ever smoked pot?

I follow our state and federal laws and refrain from drug abuse. In an equally curious gesture though, have you ever stopped smoking pot?

[CKFresh]

I follow our state and federal laws and refrain from drug abuse. In an equally curious gesture though, have you ever stopped smoking pot?

That explains your ignorance of the drug. Only someone who has never smoked pot could think it is more dangerous than alcohol.

To answer your question, yes, I stopped smoking pot my senior year of college. I stopped drinking too in order to focus more on my studies instead of drinking and smoking. I was also worried about a possible drug test for potential jobs. Sure enough, I had to take one for the job I currently have. I now smoke pot probably twice a week and it helps me to relax and enjoy life a bit more. You should try it, you might find you become more of a pleasant person...

[IntheNet]

That explains your ignorance of the drug.

I don't have to become a criminal to understand crime. That is your mistake.

I was also worried about a possible drug test for potential jobs. Sure enough, I had to take one for the job I currently have. I now smoke pot probably twice a week...

So you're a hypocrite? You stop engaging in criminal activity to get a job then re-engage in it and call us wrong?

Keep digging Fresh... we'll throw you a rope when we stop laughing!

[CKFresh]

I don't have to become a criminal to understand crime. That is your mistake.

Ok.. Would you try marijuana if it were made legal?

So you're a hypocrite? You stop engaging in criminal activity to get a job then re-engage in it and call us wrong?


Call who wrong? What are you talking about.

Stop worrying about my actions. I smoke pot, and it effects you...how?

Keep digging Fresh... we'll throw you a rope when we stop laughing!

You are laughing, who else?

[IntheNet]

Stop worrying about my actions. I smoke pot, and it effects you...how?

It is a criminal act Fresh. That you can't deny. Unless you of the small minority of recipients of medical marijuanna in La La Land in the Peoples Republic of California, you are a criminal in most states if you use marijuanna. Since you asked, it effects me in two ways; one, you are advocating illegal acts, and two, you are admitting an illegal act.

What do I personally think of it? It is illegal.

However...

I actually think marijuanna should be legalized upon extensive FDA review, grown exclusively by tobacco firms, sold, and taxed, in much the same what alcohol is produced and regulated. Until it is legalized, it is an illegal drug and use of it is criminal.

By the way, the most vocal opponents to legalizing marijuanna are not who you think they are; the opponents to legalization are those making so much ($) off of it through illegal trafficing and who would be put out of business if it were made legal.

[CKFresh]

It is a criminal act Fresh. That you can't deny.

Yeah, but no more than speeding or j-walking. It is a misdemeanor with the only penalty being a small fine. I don't see you speaking out against j-walkers or those that drive 56 MPH in a 55 zone.

By the way, the most vocal opponents to legalizing marijuanna are not who you think they are; the opponents to legalization are those making so much ($) off of it through illegal trafficing and who would be put out of business if it were made legal.

That's my entire point. If we make pot legal, honest Americans profit off the sale instead of criminals and terrorists.

(btw, the stuff I get doesn't come from these people. Well I guess they are criminals, but only in the sense that they supply people with pot. Other than that, they are no different than you! But some of the world's most dangerous people are those who benefit from the sale of marijuana, on the larger scale)

[DETMURDS]

Yeah, but no more than speeding or j-walking. It is a misdemeanor with the only penalty being a small fine. I don't see you speaking out against j-walkers or those that drive 56 MPH in a 55 zone.



That's my entire point. If we make pot legal, honest Americans profit off the sale instead of criminals and terrorists.

(btw, the stuff I get doesn't come from these people. Well I guess they are criminals, but only in the sense that they supply people with pot. Other than that, they are no different than you! But some of the world's most dangerous people are those who benefit from the sale of marijuana, on the larger scale)

They are in hiding, therefore they are not just criminals but terrorists! Is this why you don't like the Patriot Act?

[CKFresh]

They are in hiding, therefore they are not just criminals but terrorists! Is this why you don't like the Patriot Act?

No, I don't like the Patriot Act because I am for freedom instead of fascism.

[CKFresh]

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology and mass movement that seeks to place the nation (defined in exclusive biological, cultural, and historical terms) above all other loyalties.[1] Various scholars attribute different charactersistics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, collectivism, totalitarianism, and anti-egalitarianism.[2]...abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion."[11]

[Montrovant]

They are in hiding, therefore they are not just criminals but terrorists! Is this why you don't like the Patriot Act?

Huh? I must be missing something, I'm not sure what you mean by this....if a criminal hides they are a terrorist? Am I missing outside context or something?

[CKFresh]

I didn't get that either.

[IntheNet]

No, I don't like the Patriot Act because I am for freedom instead of fascism.

I don't believe you! You don't like the Patriot Act because your handlers told you not to like it!

What affect has the Patriot Act had on you? What freedoms and liberties were denied to you as a result of the Patriot Act?

A little less liberal propaganda Fresh and more honesty huh?

[CKFresh]

What affect has the Patriot Act had on you? What freedoms and liberties were denied to you as a result of the Patriot Act?

The Patriot Act effects me the same way abortion effects you.

[CKFresh]

Are you against abortion because you yourself were in fact aborted?

[IntheNet]

Are you against abortion because you yourself were in fact aborted?

Think about the logic of that statement then repost when you see and admit the error. And lest you missed it, What affect has the Patriot Act had on you? What freedoms and liberties were denied to you as a result of the Patriot Act?

[Montrovant]

We've had this discussion! In fact, I think you've asked that same question to CK before! Sheesh :(

[CKFresh]

Think about the logic of that statement then repost when you see and admit the error. And lest you missed it, What affect has the Patriot Act had on you? What freedoms and liberties were denied to you as a result of the Patriot Act?

I know that it is a logical impossibility, that's why I posted it. The point was that yuo don't have to be directly affected by something to be against it. We have had this conversation. How are you affected by gay marriage? How does it change your marraige? It is the same thing.

Other people have had rights denied because of the Patriot Act. That is enough for me to oppose it.

[CKFresh]

We've had this discussion! In fact, I think you've asked that same question to CK before! Sheesh :(

I know. Something have to be beaten in to his head, and he still doesn't get it. :rolleyes:

[IntheNet]

Other people have had rights denied because of the Patriot Act...

"Other people" have had their lives saved because of the Patriot Act. That is enough for me to support it!

[CKFresh]

"Other people" have had their lives saved because of the Patriot Act. That is enough for me to support it!

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

[IntheNet]

I read a report a while back in Science about chemicals the FDA is testing now that would be able to be aerially sprayed on huge wild coca and marijuanna fields that would neurtralize the use of the plant in either dried or refined form... apparantly the spray is an severe irritant that affects all who handle the plant and makes it actually untouchable and even worse if inhaled or ingested. It was developed by Dow/Monsanto and I hope it becomes available soon so it can be employed rapidly....

[CKFresh]

What would Jesus do?

[CKFresh]

I read a report a while back in Science

You've never read anything in any science magazine, who are you kidding. Don't you know that those are the same Satanists who promote evolution and global warming?

[IntheNet]

What would Jesus do?

Surprised you spelled His name right! Use a dictionary?

[CKFresh]

Surprised you spelled His name right! Use a dictionary?

You forget my background? I was raised in a family of religious nuts like you. I know all about Jesus. He was a great philosopher. It's a shame people like you bastardize his name and use his name to oppress and exploit other people...

[IntheNet]

I know all about Jesus. He was a great philosopher...

Asked and answered. Did your high school diploma come with a warranty?


Plato was a "great philosopher"
Emanuel Kant was a "great philosopher"
Jesus Christ was far more that that.


Even a first year kindergarten graduate knows that!

[CKFresh]

Jesus Christ was far more that that.

No, he was just a man he told people to live the right way, nothing more, nothing less.

[IntheNet]

No, he was just a man...

How's that hole going? How deep are you down to?

[CKFresh]

How's that hole going? How deep are you down to?

News Flash, You are in the minority. The great majority of this earth sees Jesus as a MAN, nothing more.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't act like I am CRAZY for not seeing Jesus as the lord. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT.

[IntheNet]

News Flash, You are in the minority. The great majority of this earth sees Jesus as a MAN, nothing more.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't act like I am CRAZY for not seeing Jesus as the lord. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT.

It is amazing to me each time some secular salesman beats his drum telling us all about our religious leaders... You may wish to confine your comments to that you know...

[CKFresh]

It is amazing to me each time some secular salesman beats his drum telling us all about our religious leaders... You may wish to confine your comments to that you know...

Nah, I'm good.

[DETMURDS]

News Flash, You are in the minority. The great majority of this earth sees Jesus as a MAN, nothing more.

You can believe whatever you want, but don't act like I am CRAZY for not seeing Jesus as the lord. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT.

I cannot agree with you at all on this one CKFresh. Maybe you are only trying to get ITN going, but that is just crazy.

Matter of fact, the two most powerful people in the world is our President, and the Pope.

I am not Catholic FYI.

Jesus loves you CKFresh!;)

[CKFresh]

Matter of fact, the two most powerful people in the world is our President, and the Pope.

This may be true, but there are more NON-Christians in the world than there are Christians. That's my point. I don't think there is anything wrong with worshipping Jesus, I was just telling IntheNet to not make me out to be crazy for not belieiving in him.

Jesus loves you CKFresh!

I'm sure he does. I think I live more like Jesus than most Christians do (not talking about either of you). I give to the poor (even though I am poor), I respect everyone (believe it or not I am the most polite person you will ever meet, in person), and I treat everyone as my equal.

Wait a minuet, am I Jesus?

[IntheNet]

Wait a minuet, am I Jesus?

You see, kids, what happens when you abuse drugs? CKFresh is a good example of what happens when abuse becomes chronic..

Just say no!

[Montrovant]

You see, kids, what happens when you abuse drugs? CKFresh is a good example of what happens when abuse becomes chronic..

Just say no!

Drug abuse turns you into Jesus?! :lol:

[BigBuddhaPup]

What would Jesus do?

Hang out with his hippie friends sitting in a circle passing around the dube, saying something silly like "this is my body"...:D

[BigBuddhaPup]

Asked and answered. Did your high school diploma come with a warranty?


Plato was a "great philosopher"
Emanuel Kant was a "great philosopher"
Jesus Christ was far more that that.


Even a first year kindergarten graduate knows that!


Only the brainwashed ones... excuse me, I mean cult members... let me be more PC... the children of the faithful that were taught this...

[BigBuddhaPup]

It is amazing to me each time some secular salesman beats his drum telling us all about our religious leaders... You may wish to confine your comments to that you know...


Well someone has help people that are ignorant about their own religion...:D

[BigBuddhaPup]

I cannot agree with you at all on this one CKFresh. Maybe you are only trying to get ITN going, but that is just crazy.

Matter of fact, the two most powerful people in the world is our President, and the Pope.

I am not Catholic FYI.

Jesus loves you CKFresh!;)


Detmurds,

CK probably is trying to get ITN going...which I must admit is amusing... but most people in the world do not think Jesus is a god... stats point that out...

Yes, the pope and president are powerful men...

[BigBuddhaPup]

I'm sure he does. I think I live more like Jesus than most Christians do (not talking about either of you). I give to the poor (even though I am poor), I respect everyone (believe it or not I am the most polite person you will ever meet, in person), and I treat everyone as my equal.

Wait a minuet, am I Jesus?

Who lives in caves, travels around with men and preaches to the villages?



Praise CK, and all of his glory...Halleujah...:D

[BigBuddhaPup]

Drug abuse turns you into Jesus?! :lol:


Having brain damage would explain the messiah complex... Jesus should have laid off the peyote...

[CKFresh]

Having brain damage would explain the messiah complex... Jesus should have laid off the peyote...

LOL, BBP is killing it right now. :lol:

[IntheNet]

Who lives in caves, travels around with men and preaches to the villages?

Hillary Clinton?

[BigBuddhaPup]

Hillary Clinton?


You havin' erotic dreams about Hillary again? :D

[IntheNet]

You havin' erotic dreams about Hillary again? :D

nightmares... Me moving to Greenland after she is elected... :eek:

Nothing The Bible and a donation to the Republican Party can't cure...

[catman]

Don't worry ITN. Polling I have seen recently shows that fully 60% will not consider voting for her. Not a strong showing so far.

[BigBuddhaPup]

nightmares... Me moving to Greenland after she is elected... :eek:

Nothing The Bible and a donation to the Republican Party can't cure...

Is that what Rev. Haggard did too?:lol:


Have fun in the wonderful tundra of Greenland..:thumbup:

[BigBuddhaPup]

Don't worry ITN. Polling I have seen recently shows that fully 60% will not consider voting for her. Not a strong showing so far.



Well, that leaves 40%... and is plenty considering that around half of our population votes....

You know you want Hillary as the next president....:lol:

[CKFresh]

Don't worry ITN. Polling I have seen recently shows that fully 60% will not consider voting for her. Not a strong showing so far.

Wow, she's almost as low as Bush :lol:

[catman]

Her approval ratings hover around 15%. Not very good, IMO. If she is the best the Democrats can do, they are in real trouble, again.

[IntheNet]

Don't worry ITN. Polling I have seen recently shows that fully 60% will not consider voting for her. Not a strong showing so far.

Well... to be perfectly honest... I am not crazy about having a Madrasa-schooled Muslim/Christian mix with no international experience and a middle name of Hussein as my leader either.... :thumbdown:

[CKFresh]

Well... to be perfectly honest... I am not crazy about having a Madrasa-schooled Muslim/Christian mix with no international experience and a middle name of Hussein as my leader either.... :thumbdown:

But you're not a bigot, right?

LOL.

[IntheNet]

But you're not a bigot, right?

Admittedly not as much as you....

[CKFresh]

Admittedly not as much as you....

But you have trouble voting for someone who is not Christian and has a foreign name. BIGOT. I would vote for someone of any race, color, culture, religion, or back ground. Can you say the same.

Speaking of approval ratings, i wonder if Bush will leave with a rating over 70 percent when he leaves? Oh yeah, he's not Clinton, nevermind... :lol:

[CKFresh]

Tell me IntheNet, who am I bigotted towards?

[catman]

Christians.

[IntheNet]

I would vote for someone of any race, color, culture, religion, or back ground. Can you say the same.

No. Why should I? We live in a democracy where I can vote for any American that holds his patriotism and morals in the same grasp.

[IntheNet]

Tell me IntheNet, who am I bigotted towards?

You are bigotted toward (note no "s" is needed) Christians.

[BigBuddhaPup]

You are bigotted toward (note no "s" is needed) Christians.


I dislike Christianity... it is silly, ignorant superstition...

"Hate the belief, not the believer"... Halleujah!:thumbup:

[CKFresh]

You are bigotted toward (note no "s" is needed) Christians.

Really? I am bigotted TOWARD my Girlfreind who I live with? Or how about my very religious Christian parents?

Try again...

[CKFresh]

No. Why should I? We live in a democracy where I can vote for any American that holds his patriotism and morals in the same grasp.

No, you don't have to, but it shows you are bigotted. You don't look at ideas, you look at color and religion.

[catman]

But you have trouble voting for someone who is not Christian and has a foreign name. BIGOT. I would vote for someone of any race, color, culture, religion, or back ground. Can you say the same.


Yes I can. I would have no problem voting for a person regardless of race, creed, national origin (as long as they are Constitutionally qualified to run for the office), sexual preferrence, or gender. I am not a bigot.

[IntheNet]

Really? I am bigotted TOWARD my Girlfreind who I live with? Or how about my very religious Christian parents....

Busted! :lol:

If she is even a little Christian and her parents are a lot Christian (as is normal), you wouldn't be "living with" her in any sense of the word!

[catman]

I dislike Christianity... it is silly, ignorant superstition...

"Hate the belief, not the believer"... Halleujah!:thumbup:

How is Christianity ignorant? Please explain, using specifics.

[CKFresh]

Yes I can. I would have no problem voting for a person regardless of race, creed, national origin (as long as they are Constitutionally qualified to run for the office), sexual preferrence, or gender. I am not a bigot.

I didn't say you were a bigot, that's inthenet.

[BigBuddhaPup]

Well... to be perfectly honest... I am not crazy about having a Madrasa-schooled Muslim/Christian mix with no international experience and a middle name of Hussein as my leader either.... :thumbdown:


But you were fine with a Ivy League, silver spoon in his mouth, born-again Christian, admitted alcoholic, ex-cocaine user, with at least two DUI's under his belt, bankrupt two businesses, draft dodger, with no international experience as your president?

[CKFresh]

Busted! :lol:

If she is even a little Christian and her parents are a lot Christian (as is normal), you wouldn't be "living with" her in any sense of the word!

Wrong. Not every Christian interprets the Bible the same way you do.

Try again....

[CKFresh]

But you were fine with a Ivy League, silver spoon in his mouth, born-again Christian, admitted alcoholic, ex-cocaine user, with at least two DUI's under his belt, bankrupt two businesses, draft dodger, with no international experience as your president?

LOL :lol:

Keep going BBP

[IntheNet]

You don't look at ideas, you look at color and religion.

I also look at political party in addition to color and religion! Why not? As a Caucasian I support my race! (btw... so does the NAACP)! As a Christian I support my religion. Nothing wrong with either of those! As a Republican I support my party! I vote with all three of those criteria, and their stand on issues.

[CKFresh]

I also look at political party in addition to color and religion! Why not? As a Caucasian I support my race! (btw... so does the NAACP)! As a Christian I support my religion. Nothing wrong with either of those! As a Republican I support my party! I vote with all three of those criteria, and their stand on issues.

Yeah, the NAACP is full of bigots.

I am surprised, for the first time you have admitted to being a racist and a bigot. That is the first step towards recovery.

[BigBuddhaPup]

How is Christianity ignorant? Please explain, using specifics.


All religions are ignorant. It is the nature of being a believer. To be a believer you have faith. Faith is blind belief. Blind belief is ignorance. Religion can't prove God. Hence ignorance. Ignorant of that fact that God doesn't exist, nor can be proven. Religion is superstitious nonsense.

I would have said stupidity, but some people just don't know any better.

[catman]

This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I feel it is an incorrect assessment of the situation, however, and that is my opinion.
I guess when the rapture takes place and you are still here, while I am not, you'll understand.

[IntheNet]

I am surprised, for the first time you have admitted to being a racist and a bigot...

What is "racist"?
What is "bigot"?

Consider => The NAACP urges its members to support and vote for specifically black Americans. That is both racially insensitive and bigotted toward blacks. Therefore, if I am a racist and a bigot in your opinion, I am no more so that the management of the NAACP. I am okay with that!

Sorry. You lose this one Fresh...

[CKFresh]

READ MY POST ABOVE!

Yeah, the NAACP is full of bigots

I SAID THEY ARE BIGOTS.

Just like you...

[BigBuddhaPup]

I also look at political party in addition to color and religion! Why not? As a Caucasian I support my race! (btw... so does the NAACP)! As a Christian I support my religion. Nothing wrong with either of those! As a Republican I support my party! I vote with all three of those criteria, and their stand on issues.


Caucasian is a superfical notion...

Nvm...

So a white Christian Republican... then issues....

Does this person need to be a man? Is any sect of Christianity okay?

Just narrowing down for ya...

[CKFresh]

I guess when the rapture takes place and you are still here, while I am not, you'll understand.

LOL, sorry, scare tactics aren't very effective...

[BigBuddhaPup]

This is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I feel it is an incorrect assessment of the situation, however, and that is my opinion.
I guess when the rapture takes place and you are still here, while I am not, you'll understand.

"the rapture" - see silly ignorant superstition...:lol:

[catman]

Fresh, no one is as bigotted as the NAACP, presently. They want to see blacks given special rights, not granted to any other race. That is the definition of racism.

[catman]

"the rapture" - see silly ignorant superstition...:lol:
You think so? I do not. We'll see when it happens.
One who knows where they are going is not concerned about your sort of thinking.
Faith is a matter of personal choice. You choose to not have the one I espouse and have decided to ridicule it. I shall not reciprocate.

[CKFresh]

Sorry. You lose this one Fresh...

I can I lose when you don't even understand my statements. I have agreed that the NAACP is full of bigots. It's not my fault you can't read.

Let me know when you want to talk on a level where you can understand me.

[BigBuddhaPup]

LOL, sorry, scare tactics aren't very effective...


Put some Hindu fear in him...

Well, yeah, when your reincarnated, you are going to be a dungbeetle and I will be in Nirvana... so there..:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CKFresh]

Fresh, no one is as bigotted as the NAACP, presently. They want to see blacks given special rights, not granted to any other race. That is the definition of racism.

WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!

I SAID THE NAACP IS FULL OF BIGOTS.

Seriously, can republicans read or not?

[BigBuddhaPup]

Fresh, no one is as bigotted as the NAACP, presently. They want to see blacks given special rights, not granted to any other race. That is the definition of racism.


*see KKK, Aryan Youth, Neo-Nazi, and GW*

[CKFresh]

Put some Hindu fear in him...

Well, yeah, when your reincarnated, you are going to be a dungbeetle and I will be in Nirvana... so there..:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice play BBP, nice play...

[catman]

*see KKK, Aryan Youth, Neo-Nazi, and GW*
All of the above are filled with hate, as is the NAACP. GW is not a bigot.

[BigBuddhaPup]

You think so? I do not. We'll see when it happens.


100%.

No, you will never see it, you will die like everyone else, provide worms some food, then eventually be swallowed by our even expanding sun and become the stuff that stars are made of.... that is your ending... and everyone elses...

[CKFresh]

catman, respond. Can you read? Or are you just unable to understand basic words?

[catman]

But you were fine with a Ivy League, silver spoon in his mouth, born-again Christian, admitted alcoholic, ex-cocaine user, with at least two DUI's under his belt, bankrupt two businesses, draft dodger, with no international experience as your president?
As opposed to the alternatives presented by the opposition party in 2000 and 2004, the answer is a resounding yes.

[BigBuddhaPup]

All of the above are filled with hate, as is the NAACP. GW is not a bigot.


Sure he is. He didn't attend any NAACP function until before last election, and that was the only time... but the easiest indictation of his bigotry is how he left New Orleans and surrounding areas to ****ing rot... if those were a bunch of rich white folk, he might have taken time from playing a guitar at a fund raiser to help...

To quote the Bard, Kayne West, "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Playon, playa...:thumbup:

[catman]

100%.

No, you will never see it, you will die like everyone else, provide worms some food, then eventually be swallowed by our even expanding sun and become the stuff that stars are made of.... that is your ending... and everyone elses...

That's fine. The Earthly body is just a shell that houses the immortal soul while we are here. I am not concerned with it's disposition. I do not fear death, nor do I wish to hasten it. If you do, that is your concern.

[BigBuddhaPup]

As opposed to the alternatives presented by the opposition party in 2000 and 2004, the answer is a resounding yes.


I would take "Mr. Roboto" - Gore or "Mr. Verbose" - Kerry over GW any day....

While they aren't the best choices, a feces throwing chimp is better than what we have now...

[IntheNet]

Fresh, no one is as bigotted as the NAACP, presently. They want to see blacks given special rights, not granted to any other race. That is the definition of racism.


Excellent!

[CKFresh]

Excellent!

For the last time, you guys are aware that I said the NAACP IS FULL OF BIGOTS, right?

Who are you arguing with?

[BigBuddhaPup]

That's fine. The Earthly body is just a shell that houses the immortal soul while we are here. I am not concerned with it's disposition. I do not fear death, nor do I wish to hasten it. If you do, that is your concern.

Are you part of "Heaven's Gate"? They said the exact same thing... then they drank the drug spiked vodka to join the spaceship behind the Hale-Bopp comet..


We don't have souls. I do have some R&B soul though. I don't fear the reaper either, the Blue Oyster Cult taught me that.

Never said anything about hastening...where did that come from?

[catman]

Sure he is. He didn't attend any NAACP function until before last election, and that was the only time... but the easiest indictation of his bigotry is how he left New Orleans and surrounding areas to ****ing rot... if those were a bunch of rich white folk, he might have taken time from playing a guitar at a fund raiser to help...

To quote the Bard, Kayne West, "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Playon, playa...:thumbup:

Why would President Bush attend a function at which his ridicule would be certain and where his ideas would be disregarded out of hand?
Why do the people of New Orleans insist on returning one who squandered the money ear-marked for levy repair and renovation on political favors for his "friends"? The fault of the city of New Orleans being left to rot lies directly at his feet.
Why is the opinion of Kayne West more important than anyone elses? Does he have an association with the NAACP or any other racist group?
If so, I believe his opinion is biased beyond repair and to acknowledge and endorse it is to approve of racism. Are you sure you wish to admit this hypocrisy?

[IntheNet]

...you will die like everyone else, provide worms some food, then eventually be swallowed by our even expanding sun and become the stuff that stars are made of.... that is your ending... and everyone elses...

Wrong! My soul will hold dominion over the sinners and............ potheads! Also... if I was good, I get an audience with St. Peter and a life in Paradise ever after...

[BigBuddhaPup]

For the last time, you guys are aware that I said the NAACP IS FULL OF BIGOTS, right?

Who are you arguing with?


His imaginary friend? Maybe Jesus.... Those silly Christians...:lol:

[catman]

Are you part of "Heaven's Gate"? They said the exact same thing... then they drank the drug spiked vodka to join the spaceship behind the Hale-Bopp comet..


We don't have souls. I do have some R&B soul though. I don't fear the reaper either, the Blue Oyster Cult taught me that.

Never said anything about hastening...where did that come from?
I am not part of any "cult". I am an independent thinking Christian that has a strong faith in God, period. You do not share this faith and you are entitled to your opinion. I shall not reciprocate your ridicule.

[CKFresh]

Wrong! My soul will hold dominion over the sinners and............ potheads! Also... if I was good, I get an audience with St. Peter and a life in Paradise ever after...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, evil potheads..... LOL

[catman]

And by the way Fresh, by admitting that the NAACP is full of bigots and not renouncing their racism, you are being a bit hypocritical by criticizing others.

[CKFresh]

His imaginary friend? Maybe Jesus.... Those silly Christians...:lol:

Seriously, they keep arguing about the NAACP when i have said 5 times that I think they are a racists organization.

These guys would argue with an encyclopedia...

[CKFresh]

And by the way Fresh, by admitting that the NAACP is full of bigots and not renouncing their racism, you are being a bit hypocritical by criticizing others.

When did I say I support them, or say anything good about them? They are bigots, I don't support them or their mission...

[BigBuddhaPup]

Wrong! My soul will hold dominion over the sinners and............ potheads! Also... if I was good, I get an audience with St. Peter and a life in Paradise ever after...


And an exclamation point swings the truth....:lol: You don't have a soul, none of us do, it is man-made fiction to make us buy into the inane ideas of relgions..

If you are really good, then you will get ice cream and rainbows too... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Freakin' juvenile notions...

[catman]

Fresh, you appear to think they are all right, when they are supporting your position, politically.

[CKFresh]

These guys would argue with an encyclopedia...

Wait a minuet, the encyclopedia talks about evolution and global warming, SO I AM RIGHT. They WOULD argue with facts... lol

[CKFresh]

I would? I simply think you not renouncing the NAACP is a bit hypocritical.

I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CKFresh]

I would? I simply think you not renouncing the NAACP is a bit hypocritical.

And I think it is hypocritical of you not to renounce IntheNet, who is equally racists and bigotted.

[catman]

And an exclamation point swings the truth....:lol: You don't have a soul, none of us do, it is man-made fiction to make us buy into the inane ideas of relgions..

If you are really good, then you will get ice cream and rainbows too... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Freakin' juvenile notions...

Again, you ridicule legitimate faith. Please stop the hypocrisy. You, and your party, insist they are "open-minded". This sort of attitude is pretty closed-minded, and contrary with your party's stated attitude. Are all Democrats hypocrites or is it just you.

[catman]

And I think it is hypocritical of you not to renounce IntheNet, who is equally racists and bigotted.
Have I publically voiced support for him in this arena?

[BigBuddhaPup]

I am not part of any "cult". I am an independent thinking Christian that has a strong faith in God, period. You do not share this faith and you are entitled to your opinion. I shall not reciprocate your ridicule.

If you are a Christian then you are a part of a cult, the only difference is yours might be socially acceptable.

I choose not to share in your mythology.

Entitled to an opinion... how relativist of you...

[catman]

I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then you must also renounce the Democratic Party in total, as they approve of the NAACP's attitude. You are a hypocrite as well.

[CKFresh]

Again, you ridicule legitimate faith. Please stop the hypocrisy. You, and your party, insist they are "open-minded". This sort of attitude is pretty closed-minded, and contrary with your party's stated attitude. Are all Democrats hypocrites or is it just you.

Catman,

We are open-minded and tolerant, until you use your "faith" to discriminate others and steer this country backwards 50 years. When people use faith to stop the teaching of science, or to oppress homosexuals, we become intolerant of that faith.

Sorry, we are intolerant of intolerance...

[CKFresh]

Then you must also renounce the Democratic Party in total, as they approve of the NAACP's attitude. You are a hypocrite as well.

So I have to agree with EVERYTHING the democratic party stands for to vote for them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Do you agree with EVERYTHING the republican party says?

Think about that before you answer...

[catman]

Catman,

We are open-minded and tolerant, until you use your "faith" to discriminate others and steer this country backwards 50 years. When people use faith to stop the teaching of science, or to oppress homosexuals, we become intolerant of that faith.

Sorry, we are intolerant of intolerance...

I do these things? I do not recall ever saying anything of this nature. Others may do so, but I do not.
I am intolerant of intolerance that is shown by people of your party, and those of my party that display similar closed-minded attitudes.
Nice try.

[BigBuddhaPup]

Again, you ridicule legitimate faith. Please stop the hypocrisy. You, and your party, insist they are "open-minded". This sort of attitude is pretty closed-minded, and contrary with your party's stated attitude. Are all Democrats hypocrites or is it just you.


Open-minded doesn't mean accepting any idiotic notion that comes around. It means taking all ideas into consideration. Well, I considered the notion, and it is ignorant bunch of foolishness...and yes, I ridicule all faiths, because they are idiotic... 'legitimate'? under the law, sure... by imaginary entity, :lol: ....

I am not a democrat btw... I am registered undecided(independent in some states)...

[CKFresh]

o I have to agree with EVERYTHING the democratic party stands for to vote for them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Do you agree with EVERYTHING the republican party says?

Think about that before you answer...

Answer the question hypocrit

[IntheNet]

Freakin' juvenile notions...

No... "Freakin' juvenile notions" are things like weak city folks who buy pit bulls thinking that particular breed of dog will be tough and defend them when quite the reverse is true; i.e., the odds of getting bit by your own pit bull are just as great as it actually defending you in a scape or break in, which is about 50:50 for any breed of large dog. That's a "Freakin' juvenile notions" defined for ya.

Now as for souls; that's a fact jack! No notion there! Unless you like picking hot coals out of your butt for time eternal while an ugly guy jabs you with pitchfork 24/7 I suggest you pray with an amplifier on max power!

[catman]

So I have to agree with EVERYTHING the democratic party stands for to vote for them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Do you agree with EVERYTHING the republican party says?

Think about that before you answer...
I always think about things before I answer them. I do not regard any doctrine as "absolute". I follow my own conscience, period. I consult others when I am in doubt.
Your attitude shows a bit of intolerance here.
Before you call me a hypocrite, discontinue your own hypocritical attitudes. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone">

[IntheNet]

I am not a democrat btw... I am registered undecided(independent in some states)...

You're a liberal leftist... admit it... I can smell 'em a mile away and hear 'em coming twice that distance....

[CKFresh]

No... "Freakin' juvenile notions" are things like weak city folks who buy pit bulls thinking that particular breed of dog will be tough and defend them when quite the reverse is true; i.e., the odds of getting bit by your own pit bull are just as great as it actually defending you in a scape or break in, which is about 50:50 for any breed of large dog. That's a "Freakin' juvenile notions" defined for ya.

WTF????

I have no idea what this guy is talking about...

[catman]

Open-minded doesn't mean accepting any idiotic notion that comes around. It means taking all ideas into consideration. Well, I considered the notion, and it is ignorant bunch of foolishness...and yes, I ridicule all faiths, because they are idiotic... 'legitimate'? under the law, sure... by imaginary entity, :lol: ....

I am not a democrat btw... I am registered undecided(independent in some states)...
Again, this is your opinion. You are entitled to it.

[IntheNet]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about...

Sorry... I did use a few multisyllable words in that last post... I'll try to use smaller words for you...

[BigBuddhaPup]

No... "Freakin' juvenile notions" are things like weak city folks who buy pit bulls thinking that particular breed of dog will be tough and defend them when quite the reverse is true; i.e., the odds of getting bit by your own pit bull are just as great as it actually defending you in a scape or break in, which is about 50:50 for any breed of large dog. That's a "Freakin' juvenile notions" defined for ya.

Now as for souls; that's a fact jack! No notion there! Unless you like picking hot coals out of your butt for time eternal while an ugly guy jabs you with pitchfork 24/7 I suggest you pray with an amplifier on max power!


Juvenile.. looking for some imaginary mommy and daddy to take care of in a fantasy land forever and forever...

Why is always something anal with you? Another juvenile notion, see psycho-analytic studies...

There is absolutely nothing that proves the existence of soul or any other of your religious mumbo jumbo....:)

[CKFresh]

I always think about things before I answer them. I do not regard any doctrine as "absolute". I follow my own conscience, period. I consult others when I am in doubt.
Your attitude shows a bit of intolerance here.
Before you call me a hypocrite, discontinue your own hypocritical attitudes. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone">

How am I a hypocrit? I denounce the NAACP. I wish the Democratic party didn't support them. I vote Democrat because they represent my interests best.

Where's the hypocricy?

[CKFresh]

Sorry... I did use a few multisyllable words in that last post... I'll try to use smaller words for you...

No inthenet, my point is, pit bulls are not owned by liberals only. In fact, they are kind of "hill billy" dogs. And I believe your party holds a monopoly on hill billies.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[CKFresh]

Now as for souls; that's a fact jack!

Look up the word "fact."

Souls are not fact, just fairy tales...

[catman]

OK, I'm glad to see you back away from the racist organization that your party panders to. Discontinue calling me a hypocrite, as I am not one.
As to souls not being a "fact" according to a research study, done in Britain in the 50's, the body loses several grams of weight when death occurs. I do not have a link as I read it in a magazine about 20 years ago.

[IntheNet]

There is absolutely nothing that proves the existence of soul...

I don't require proof to fully believe... you do. Not my problem really; your doubt will cost you your ultimate salvation... That's good... more room in Paradise for me and my friends!

There are thousands of things you can't completely prove scientifically yet you believe in them! Unfortunately, the most imortant of these - your soul and the afterlife - you chose to disbelieve!

You remind me of all those folks on the Titanic that walked around on deck saying, "What iceberg?"

[catman]

Juvenile.. looking for some imaginary mommy and daddy to take care of in a fantasy land forever and forever...

Why is always something anal with you? Another juvenile notion, see psycho-analytic studies...

There is absolutely nothing that proves the existence of soul or any other of your religious mumbo jumbo....:)

Again with the ridicule? Please discontinue this sort of talk, as it is not appropriate in "adult" society. Legitimate opinions are fine, as are discussions of the merits or demerits of "faith". Ridicule is not.

[BigBuddhaPup]

You're a liberal leftist... admit it... I can smell 'em a mile away and hear 'em coming twice that distance....


You been sniffing me? And listening to me.... nvm... freaky...


I am socially liberal/libertarian... fiscally conservative..

I believe that we need to take care of our people, stay out their business, treat all individuals as equals, in a balanced budget, less spending, less pork, a graduated flat tax with no loopholes...

I have a lot of idea in common with Goldwater... then the religious right came in and screwed up the republican party... dumb ass Reagan had to go to bed with them...

If Guiliani sticks to his policies and doesn't do a McCain(180), I might consider him...

I am not against all republicans... just idiots like GW...

[CKFresh]

OK, I'm glad to see you back away from the racist organization that your party panders to. Discontinue calling me a hypocrite, as I am not one.
As to souls not being a "fact" according to a research study, done in Britain in the 50's, the body loses several grams of weight when death occurs. I do not have a link as I read it in a magazine about 20 years ago.

glad to see you back away from the racist organization that your party panders to

I can't back away when I never supported them to begin with.

Stop calling me a hypocrit and I will do the same. I am far from a hypocrit.

This loss of weight proves the existance of a soul how?

This loss of weight could not be due to evaporation of respiratory fluid, or SEVERAL other things that happen to the body when you die?

[catman]

I agree about Guiliani. I think he'd be fine. I do not agree with him completely, but he would appoint some good judges, and that is important to me. He would also be fiscally conservative and his tax policy would be along the lines of "supply-side". I approve of that.

[BigBuddhaPup]

I don't require proof to fully believe... you do. Not my problem really; your doubt will cost you your ultimate salvation... That's good... more room in Paradise for me and my friends!

There are thousands of things you can't completely prove scientifically yet you believe in them! Unfortunately, the most imortant of these - your soul and the afterlife - you chose to disbelieve!

You remind me of all those folks on the Titanic that walked around on deck saying, "What iceberg?"


You are correct... I need proof to believe something....

It isn't doubt. It is reality.

For shame, ITN, celebrating someone's demise into hell...that is okay, I don't believe in anyway...but for you to rejoice in that... bad, ITN, bad...

*yawn*... I know science is based on facts, it doesn't matter if can't prove something... eventually it will be proven or not..

Logic 101: You can't prove a negative.

You remind me of Jonestown: "Sure I will have the kool-aid"

[catman]

glad to see you back away from the racist organization that your party panders to
This loss of weight proves the existance of a soul how?

This loss of weight could not be due to evaporation of respiratory fluid, or SEVERAL other things that happen to the body when you die?
The dr that ran this study accounted for all of the fluid changes in the body. This was an instantaneous weight loss, occuring precisely at the time of death.

[CKFresh]

I agree about Guiliani. I think he'd be fine. I do not agree with him completely, but he would appoint some good judges, and that is important to me. He would also be fiscally conservative and his tax policy would be along the lines of "supply-side". I approve of that.

Republicans will not support a remarried, cross-dresing, socially liberal Mayor of New York city as their candidate. Don't worry, he has no chance. Start thinking of someone else.

[BigBuddhaPup]

Again with the ridicule? Please discontinue this sort of talk, as it is not appropriate in "adult" society. Legitimate opinions are fine, as are discussions of the merits or demerits of "faith". Ridicule is not.


Just giving the rationale why religion is juvenile.

It is a de-merit of faith.

It is not up to you to define conversation.

I surmise we all are over 18, even ITN.

[CKFresh]

The dr that ran this study accounted for all of the fluid changes in the body. This was an instantaneous weight loss, occuring precisely at the time of death.

Any chance this doctor had an agenda? Has this study been done by anyone else?

That's the beauty of science. If it is true, we can test it over and over again. If we get the same results, we can conclude that the study was accurate.

[CKFresh]

even ITN.

I doubt that... if he is, he hasn't developed properly.

[BigBuddhaPup]

21 grams...

the old "god of the gaps" argument... since there isn't any answer for something, then it must be supernaturally based...

I guess god took those missing socks too...:lol:

[CKFresh]

I guess god took those missing socks too...

LOL, BBP, I'm going to get fired for laughing so hard...

[catman]

Any chance this doctor had an agenda? Has this study been done by anyone else?

That's the beauty of science. If it is true, we can test it over and over again. If we get the same results, we can conclude that the study was accurate.

The report said he was an "athiest" so I doubt if he had any agenda. He was just curious.
As to the study being replicated anywhere else, I have no idea. I have not seen any other reports of similar studies being done. If you wish to disregard the study, by all means do so. If not, also fine.

[CKFresh]

The report said he was an "athiest" so I doubt if he had any agenda. He was just curious.
As to the study being replicated anywhere else, I have no idea. I have not seen any other reports of similar studies being done. If you wish to disregard the study, by all means do so. If not, also fine.

Nah, I have already made up my mind.

[catman]

I was pretty sure you had. I just thought I'd give an "opposing" view. You do not believe in the existance of a soul, I do.
As I said before, for those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without it, no explanation is possible.

[CKFresh]

no explanation is possible.

Hmmm, can't agree there... But whatever, we are beating a dead horse.

[catman]

If you would accept an explanation, you would have already done so. The choice is yours, obviously, and I cannot make it for you. Faith is one of the most personal things a person has.

[BigBuddhaPup]

The report said he was an "athiest" so I doubt if he had any agenda. He was just curious.
As to the study being replicated anywhere else, I have no idea. I have not seen any other reports of similar studies being done. If you wish to disregard the study, by all means do so. If not, also fine.

I am happy for him... being an atheist.....

If it is unexplained phenomenon, then I applaud his curiousity, I hope he is able to figure it out.

[BigBuddhaPup]

I was pretty sure you had. I just thought I'd give an "opposing" view. You do not believe in the existance of a soul, I do.
As I said before, for those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without it, no explanation is possible.


I agree with the first part: For those with faith, no explanation is necessary...

The second part of the cliche is incorrect, it should be: For those without faith, an explanation is necessary.

[CKFresh]

If you would accept an explanation, you would have already done so. The choice is yours, obviously, and I cannot make it for you. Faith is one of the most personal things a person has.

Oh, I misunderstood you. My bad. Your statement makes sense now...

[BigBuddhaPup]

If you would accept an explanation, you would have already done so. The choice is yours, obviously, and I cannot make it for you. Faith is one of the most personal things a person has.


So explanation equates what? Faith?

[catman]

I agree with the first part: For those with faith, no explanation is necessary...

The second part of the cliche is incorrect, it should be: For those without faith, an explanation is necessary.
As an athiest, no explanation of faith in God would be acceptible to you. You simply would never understand it.
If one refuses to accept the existance of God, how would any explanation sway their thinking?

[BigBuddhaPup]

As an athiest, no explanation of faith in God would be acceptible to you. You simply would never understand it.
If one refuses to accept the existance of God, how would any explanation sway their thinking?


I understand the explanation of faith.... sure, I don't accept it, because it is incorrect.

It isn't a refusal... it is logic...

To refuse something, is to say something exists or might exist.... God doesn't exist... so there is absolutely nothing to refuse...

To sway my thinking on any subject, I want facts, not myths.... I want truth, not faith... give me something tangible, not metaphysical... when it comes right down to it, religion offers us nothing except the nonsense that is conjured up in our imaginations...

[CKFresh]

As an athiest, no explanation of faith in God would be acceptible to you. You simply would never understand it.
If one refuses to accept the existance of God, how would any explanation sway their thinking?

I think he means, an ACCEPTABLE explanation is necessary. There is no explanation for the existance of God, it requires faith. Therefore, an athiest requires an explanation.

[BigBuddhaPup]

I think he means, an ACCEPTABLE explanation is necessary. There is no explanation for the existance of God, it requires faith. Therefore, an athiest requires an explanation.


Sure. The wording was biased, so I tweaked a bit.

[Montrovant]

I think he means, an ACCEPTABLE explanation is necessary. There is no explanation for the existance of God, it requires faith. Therefore, an athiest requires an explanation.

Actually, I think it's more along the lines of an agnostic requires an explaination. An atheist actively disbelieves. Although, the definition of those 2 words can change depending on who's doing the defining.

I don't believe in god, but at the same time know that I can't prove what did create life or the earth or the universe. I'm willing to admit the possibility of some sort of divine creation. An atheist, on the other hand, believes there is no divine being(s). A matter of degree I guess....

You all sure did post a lot in a short period today! :P

[IntheNet]

If Guiliani sticks to his policies and doesn't do a McCain(180), I might consider him...

Rudy Giuliani made a good mayor for NYC but he cannot be considered by the GOP as a serious candidate; he is not conservative. He is pro-abortion and anti-gun; two issues he is backwards on! The Republican base will not back him. The religious right and the american sportsment and NRA supporters will not vote for him!

We are waiting for a better candidate; possibly Newt Gingrich or Fred Thompson!

[catman]

BBP, you have said God does not exist. This statement needs to be proven to me. I'll wait.
In your opinion, He does not exist. To prove or disprove His existance is difficult, but you have thrown down the gauntlet and I will require proof of this statement before you may proceed. Yes I have that authority. I will simply edit out all of your posts until the statement is proven or retracted.

[DETMURDS]

I understand the explanation of faith.... sure, I don't accept it, because it is incorrect.

It isn't a refusal... it is logic...

To refuse something, is to say something exists or might exist.... God doesn't exist... so there is absolutely nothing to refuse...

To sway my thinking on any subject, I want facts, not myths.... I want truth, not faith... give me something tangible, not metaphysical... when it comes right down to it, religion offers us nothing except the nonsense that is conjured up in our imaginations...


Regardless of what you say, God still loves You! You will be calling for him when you least expect it. I promise.;) It seems you have some sort of anger, fear, or history of failure to make you be this way. Don't worry, in the end it will be all good for you, as well as everyone.

"BE HEALED!"

[catman]

I, to have prayed for his soul. God does, indeed, love even those who deny Him.

[Montrovant]

Regardless of what you say, God still loves You! You will be calling for him when you least expect it. I promise.;) It seems you have some sort of anger, fear, or history of failure to make you be this way. Don't worry, in the end it will be all good for you, as well as everyone.

"BE HEALED!"

Are you saying you have to be disturbed in some way NOT to believe in God, or maybe more specifically, the Christian God? Or are you just refrencing BBP's rather vociferous denial of God's existance? :)

And unless you are talking about after death, the idea that anyone who doesn't believe will be 'calling for him when you least expect it' is pretty condescending. Not that BBP hasn't been the same, but I feel it's pretty likely there have been many people who have lived their entire adult lives either not believing in anything divine, or at least who's beliefs were far different than yours.

And hey, if God still loves those of us who don't believe in Him, then there's no reason FOR us to do so! ;)

[Montrovant]

BBP, you have said God does not exist. This statement needs to be proven to me. I'll wait.
In your opinion, He does not exist. To prove or disprove His existance is difficult, but you have thrown down the gauntlet and I will require proof of this statement before you may proceed. Yes I have that authority. I will simply edit out all of your posts until the statement is proven or retracted.

At this point in human history, I'd say proving God's existance to someone who doesn't already believe is impossible. Just as the reverse is true. There's no real proof one way or another, which is why it's still belief (or disbelief). I try not to argue proof of any God's existance (or lack thereof). I'll happily argue why I don't think people should believe a particular religion, or any religion at all, but getting caught up in proving or disproving the existance of divinity is futile. Sometimes it's fun though! :D

[CKFresh]

We are waiting for a better candidate; possibly Newt Gingrich

IntheNet,

I find it hard to believe that you would stand behind Newt. He is guilty of cheating on his wife. Clinton is the devil for doing the same. Maybe it's ok for republicans, you tell me...

There's no real proof one way or another, which is why it's still belief (or disbelief). I try not to argue proof of any God's existance (or lack thereof). I'll happily argue why I don't think people should believe a particular religion, or any religion at all, but getting caught up in proving or disproving the existance of divinity is futile. Sometimes it's fun though!

I think the existence of multiple religions, and a lack of consistant belief, is proof enough for me. IF there is a God, I have to believe that he would be a kind God, and an enlightened God. To believe in Christianity, Judiaism, or Islam, you MUST believe that the majority of this world is going to hell. I can't belief that any God would be that heartless. A REAL God would accept people of all faiths, all colors, and all experience.

I guess what I am saying is that my God is better than yours. He doesn't care what you believe. All he cares about is your intentions, and your impact on this world. Christians belief that a murderous Christian gets to heaven above a loving muslim, as long as the Christian asks for forgivness.. Muslims believe that a suicide bomber reaches heaven over a loving Christian, as long as the suicide bomber does it in the name of Allah. I KNOW that any true God wouldn't be so discriminatory. A real God wouldn't ask us to seperate this world by religion, color, sexual orientation, class, culture, or country. A real God would only care that you treat others kindly, enjoy life, and make the world a better place. He wouldn't care about where you go to church, or what term you use to describe him (Alla, Jesus, Buddha).

That is why I am an agnostic. In order to be religious (in the sense of organized religion) you have to believe that most people will go to hell. You have to believe that some evil people are better than good people, simply because they accept the same god that you do. This is a logical fallacy that has caused more death and hardship than any other belief in the history of mankind's existence. Whether you are talking about the Christian crusades, African tribal wars, Islamic suicide bombers, or any other fundamentalist organized religious war - the belief in superiority by religion is the most dangerous weapon in this world.

Religion is not bad, in and of itself. What IS bad is the belief in superiority BECAUSE of religion.

The God you pray to doesn't make you more "holy." Your every day actions, and your positive impact on others will get you closer to "god" than any church can do for you.

Believe in yourself, believe in the human race, and work to make the world a better place than you found it. Do this, and you ANY God will except you.

[Montrovant]

I think the existence of multiple religions, and a lack of consistant belief, is proof enough for me. IF there is a God, I have to believe that he would be a kind God, and an enlightened God. To believe in Christianity, Judiaism, or Islam, you MUST believe that the majority of this world is going to hell. I can't belief that any God would be that heartless. A REAL God would accept people of all faiths, all colors, and all experience.


Actually, this is one of the arguments I have against religious belief :) Why must a God be kind? Sure, it's nice to think that's true....but if we're talking about a being able to create the universe, and one that actually pays attention to the thoughts and actions of each individual person, that's a being who's desires and goals could easily be way outside or beyond human norms. The concept of 'we cannot know God's will' actually seems like a good one. No human mind could encompass all that God is supposed to know and do, so who knows what it's intentions might be? Is it not, in fact, human arrogance to think that we CAN know what God wants?

Now of course, the various religions have their reasons for believing they DO know at least some of God's will. With the proliferation of religions around the world now, and throughout history, I just don't quite understand how one is supposed to choose between them. It seems to me that most people choose based on environment; the religion most accepted or followed around them, and what a person is raised to believe, are major factors (just like most of the other things a person believes). That seems to me to be a poor reason to choose a religion. Or put another way, because our beliefs and values are so influenced by our environment and upbringing, I don't understand why more people don't find their religious beliefs suspect, or at least question them more strongly.

And while I'll probably always be opposed to religion, I also think most of them have very good basic values attatched to them.