Should future Hall of Famers quit while they're ahead ... of the game?

[BTRoots]

Am I the only one out here who's not in love with the Moose? Send his name off to the "Hall", put him on his yacht, give him a fishing rod, bait, a bonus to cover the fuel bill (mandatory), a model/actress/actor/otherwise famous person, or perhaps Mom, or some other member of the only family that ever supported a loved one, for company, and American citizenship. Give him an invitation to ???, given his knowledge, coach? His knowledge will always be there, but his overpaid ability is waning. Give the youngsters a break, and not force them to play under his overwhelming presence, power and ego. He belongs to the 1980s, early '90s. Oh yes, and Manhattan.

[lmanchur.]

Welcome to the Sports Central message boards, CanFan!!!

...well, you provided just one sample of a "future hall of famer who quit while he's ahead of the game," and even then, most of these people, not to take anything away from them, on Sports Central's message boards are only semi-hockey fans and may not even know who "the Moose" is! (BTW, it's Mark Messier).

...Messier did have a "down-time" in Vancouver, but I think he could play until he wins another Cup!... I thought that would be within, perhaps, the next 2-3 years MAX, but he, Gretzky, and Bourque all entered the NHL in the same year (1980), and the amount of fuel left in Gretzky's tank is already gone, and it's getting quite near the "E" for Bourque and Messier.

Nevertheless, Bourque made it to the All-Star Game yet again and has a great chance at the Cup this year (I predicted the Avs at the start of the year to go all the way), and so does Messier.

HOWEVER, the odds of the Rangers and Bruins winning the cup in back-to-back years is quite low (especially how the Rangers are playing these days), and you have to wonder if it's too late for them to "quite while they're ahead."

Remember, though, Gretzky didn't really quit while he was ahead... he was "only" scoring 62 points in his last few seasons!

[Edited by SC-Lee on 01-20-2001 at 08:37 AM]

[Marc]

Originally posted by CanFan
Give the youngsters a break, and not force them to play under his overwhelming presence, power and ego.
What do you mean give "youngsters" a break? If anything, playing with a true Hall of Famer is a good experience for them, it will improve them.

[BTRoots]

I should have known. Another, yes, MESSIER lover. What does he possess that enables him to continue his merry way at will, worthlessly pulling in millions? Charisma? if you're rich and famous. American? he favours all things American. I'm not disputing his knowledge, savvy. Indisputable. A future "Hall of Famer". Without doubt. BUT, how long can he lead down a garden path with promises? Downtime in Vancouver? 3 years? That says something in itself. The downtime continues in NYC. My opinion (only)is that he plays on, with sheer egoism, power of presence. Having read several message boards, there ARE others who agree. To push their opinion? Only those who dare wreak his wrath. Time is up. He should be put (or put himself) out to pasture to count his sweet blessings. Hey, how about our new Captain, Markus Naslund? How unfortunate that serious, knowledgeable fans don't visit your message board.

[Marc]

CanFan, how do you characterize "serious, knowledgeable" fans anyway? Just because we have a difference of opinions doesn't mean you should overract in such a way.

I'm not a Messier lover, in fact, I don't even watch hockey. My point is that having him playing along with younger guys does nothing but help them.

[Wedge231]

I agree. If you had a team full of young players they still need some veterans to learn from their experience.

Earlier this year, when Messier was acquired, he made the prediction for the Rangers to get in the playoffs. Doesn't look like that's going to come through.

[iFroggy]

If someone that has accomplished as he has wants to continue, thats great for him and let him play. I mean, the guy can still play at a professional level and provides leadership and guidence to younger players.

[BTRoots]

M. James - 'Give the youngsters a break'is not a slur on the Moose. He can teach for sure. As I stated to Lee, he is a "Hall of Famer". Yes, 'youngsters' can learn (the Mess should be a coach), but his will power and 'omni-presence' could be somewhat overwhelming. I'd lay odds that he thrives on it. The Canucks developed well under his tutelage. They are now able to put into practice, what he taught, as they are not playing in his shadow. He has outlived his powers on the ice (yes, he still can skate, score and up his records), but the team that got him for a coach, would perhaps do better than if they were playing 'with' him.

[BTRoots]

M. James: I apologize. The words you are referring to were meant as a response to Lee's comment that most postings on this board are made by semi-hockey fans. Very few serious hockey fans would not know who 'the Moose' is. I was busy with messages on another board, and personal emails, and was not quick enough to reply to his posting before you slipped in there. No offense intended.

To all other replies: I still stand by my opinion that 'the Moose' would be better earning his $ by coaching. He taught in Vancouver, definitely. He is teaching in NY, definitely. He led the Canucks nowhere in 3 years. He is fast leading the Rangers nowhere. As a player. Yes, all 'youngsters' need leadership and tutelage, but there are other, younger, 'Vets' on board most teams, Vets that do no overwhelm and overshadow said youngsters by their mere presence and demand. He should add egoism to his program. There you have it. Awe demanded and received by strong will, self-importance, and, obviously, magnetism.

[Marc]

Originally posted by CanFan
M. James: I apologize. The words you are referring to were meant as a response to Lee's comment that most postings on this board are made by semi-hockey fans. Very few serious hockey fans would not know who 'the Moose' is. I was busy with messages on another board, and personal emails, and was not quick enough to reply to his posting before you slipped in there. No offense intended.
It's okay - and welcome to the SC boards! We're glad to have you here, please stick around.

[BTRoots]

M. James: Thanks. I intend to. Got to go have a life today for a while. I will be back.

[lmanchur.]

So, CanFan, you think Messier would make a good coach?

Somehow, I don't think so... players RARELY make good coaches (exception: Larry Robinson... example: Scotty Bowman is arguably the best all-time and never really played). Messier is a team leader, no question about it, but I would question his coaching abilities...

...which brings an interesting point: why was Rob Zamnuer selected over Mark Messier for Team Canada at the 1998 Olympic games?

[BTRoots]

Well, SC-Lee, I don't rightly know if Mess would make a good coach. I realize you can't read my mind and I do try to keep my spoutings short... What I do think is that IF he could coach, he has excellent knowledge to pass on. Personality wise, he probably wouldn't make a good coach. He'd jump on the ice, grab the nearest stick, run after the puck and thus do the job himself. Better yet, he'd be wearing skates, just in case. No one in my, or your, lifetime, could ever aspire to reach, let alone match Scotty. Team leader? So I've been told and lead to believe. However, he taught the Canucks more than he lead. Now that he's gone, they have put this knowledge into practice and have done an excellent job (excluding the present road trip). They do tend to break down somewhat, but they did that with Mess at the helm too. Vets have to buy into his system (or him, i.e. the complete change over of the Canucks), and rookies, young players, have to get over thier expected awe of his presence. Therein lies my point. Passed over in '88. Do you know? I was outraged myself and even felt for him. Today, he's leading the NYR. Not much time left for him.

[BTRoots]

SC-Lee; Sorry, that should have been '98.

[ppsprotec]

Good job CANFAN,I like those who tell it like it is.As for putting the "moose" out to pasture.If Mark can no longer do the job,or put up NHL caliber stats,then we will miss him,but as long as he can continue to be a contributer to his team,I'll still enjoy watching him play.I am not a Messier lover,in case that is your first reply.PPS

[BTRoots]

Thanks PPS. Its good to know there's someone out there who at least sees my point. I too shall miss watching him play, when his time comes. He has been a joy watch ... soooo cool, fluid. He makes the game look easy. I don't get the chance to watch him often as we don't get the Eastern Conference games on Star Choice and in spite of my distaste for the person, I miss seeing him play, especially for the Canucks. He says in life after playing, he'll still be involved in some way. Any guesses as to how?

[lmanchur.]

My guesses... probably he will not be invovled at the NHL level UNLESS he does some broadcasting... In my mind, I have this image of him helping Hockey Canada and bettering the youth program.

[BTRoots]

Lee? Have you ever heard him speak? Broadcasting? Uh, I doubt it. I was ill once, and for lack of anything better to do, I replayed an interview I'd taped after a game, by mistake, during his pretension of being Canadian. In his first five or six sentences, uh, came up 28 times. It was the same interview that I ended up counting how many times he swiped his nose. Yes, I was REALLY bored. Ryan and Jim both commented not much later that he would have to have an active role in hockey, as opposed to a speaking role. This on live TV.

Hello Lee. Hockey Canada? Mess New York. Even kids New York. He has made his name in hockey, yes. He even deserves it. Slay me, but I prefer Messier over Gretzky. Always have. However, is anyone out there besides me that will admit that we are talking about an American wannabe here, not a Canadian. I probably have more American roots than he does, considering that my father's father was an American, as were his nine brothers. Americans all. Anything he does for kids (lucky them) will be for New Yorks kids, not ours. Unless proven otherwise, I stand by my assessment.

[lmanchur.]

No, i've actually never heard Mess speak that much... once at the news conference that he was going back to NY last year... that's all.

Really, I don't care what he does after retirement... Hockey Canada was the first thing that popped into my head, and I'm sure he will dedicate himself to bettering the youth of the game anywhere, of course, after he takes a few months break! :)

However, guys, HE'S STILL PLAYING!!!!!!

[Wedge231]

Looks like a lot of us actually might have forgot that small fact for a short amount of time. Thanks for reminding us.

[BTRoots]

SC Lee/Wedge231 - Your're right, both of you. He'll do what's best for him and hopefully, he'll do for the kids, both elder and younger. He's still playing and is doing pretty good. Not worth the $, but, well anyway.

[BTRoots]

Lee, or M. James: Time to close. Thanks to everyone who viewed or posted a reply. Special thanks to Lee, who kept me going and provided much information.