lack of talent?

[Wedge231]

What is with the Southeast Division in the Eastern Conference?!? First place is a mere 16 points! Last place teams in the West have better records than that. Seems to me that the West overall is much more competitive than the East. What are your views on this?

[lmanchur.]

Thanks for starting this thread, because I haven't been able to come up with any lately!!

It's obvious the NHL doesn't belong in Georgia, Florida, or Carolina, which takes up four of the five Southeast Division teams. Where's this "big market" from the US South we keep hearing about from the NHL office!?... The 'Canes don't have an arena in their home city (40 miles out of the city in the middle of nowhere, I think)... on the other extreme the Lightning have had about three arenas, and they did sell out their first game at over 21,000 people, but not too many lately, I think (except when Wayne Gretzky played there). Now, FINALLY, the dark days of Phil Esposito in Tampa Bay are over and the team is finally starting to get decent, but it took seven years, and they are still not even close to competing! Atlanta looks promising, already with 15 points this season, but it should still be a few years until they make the playoffs.

With the talent these teams have, there's no reason why the NHL could not have expanded to Hamilton, Ontario, because I'm sure they could have afforded these low team salaries... but, wait a minute! let's go into Gary Bettman's mind: expanding to Canada -- the place where hockey was born, the place where the Stanley Cup was born, the home of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and the place where the the citizens of the country really care about their NHL clubs and follow hockey like a religion -- would make TOO much sense!!

Oh wait a minute.. was this post about the Southeast Division!?... oh yeah...

What's the saddest thing about this division, is that one of these teams will finish THIRD overall in the Eastern Conference, technically, the Hurricanes are ranked 9th in the East with only 18 points. This is because, the leaders of each of the divisions are ranked 1-2-3 in the final standings, so if they playoffs were today, the Hurricanes (18 PTS) would have home ice advantage over the Pittsburgh Peguins (23 PTS, 6th OV in East).

What does everyone else think of the Southeast Division and overall lack of talent in the NHL???

[Marc]

Lee, I disagree with you, to a certain extint. The reason teams, particulary in the Southeast division, is because the teams are absolutely horrible, not because the fans don't care and these towns aren't capable of holding a successful hockey franchise.

I don't know about lack of talent now, but if this is the case, it is probably just a passing phase.

SC has a good article critizing the horrid Southeast division here (http://www.sports-central.org/sports/nhl/articles/article51.shtml).

[Wedge231]

I think Lee is right and the NHL should get teams going in Canada rather than the southern USA

[Marc]

I still disagree... prove me wrong.

The NHL has to go with locations that will provide them with the most money and a lot of Canadian destinations don't. I mean, the few Canadian teams left are struggling!

[Wedge231]

Canadians overall attend more hockey games than teams in southern areas of the US. The Expos in baseball suffer because the town is not really a baseball area. Same with most southern cities and hockey.

[lmanchur.]

what i said was, that with the talent and payroll of these teams in the Southeast Division, the NHL should have had a team in Hamilton, Ontario rather than Atlanta or Columbus in their recent expansion phase, but Wedge has a point, that overall attendance equals more revenue for the team equals a bigger team salary -- especially since the NHL has no salary cap (which they really should, though)!....

...Tampa Bay, though, really got off on the wrong foot with very poor management... for a while, a seemingly non-existent person from Japan owned the team... no one had EVER seen him, but now someone else owns the team.

[Peck]

Well my opinion is that i think they should change the playoff format i agree that southern USA should not get it but i think Tampa should get one cause it is kind of exciting to watch them play. And there young talent is pretty good.

[lmanchur.]

Yeah, Tampa Bay is an OK team... but they've been in the league for seven years!... It took Ottaway five years to get into the playoffs. The Sharks were in the playoffs within three or four years, and the Panthers were in the Stanley Cup Finals in three or four years as well.

However, still, there's still a very low talent pool in this division. You would think, after seven years of being in the league, that Tampa Bay should be, at the very least, a playoff contender, which they are, in terms of they can finished 3rd overall in the East if they win their division, but compared to the West and other Eastern Divisions, they aren't at all.

[Wedge231]

Yes. I guess NHL people are stupid. Why are all the new teams being made down there? Not like many people in the South are big hockey fans anyway.

[Marc]

Originally posted by Wedge231
Yes. I guess NHL people are stupid. Why are all the new teams being made down there? Not like many people in the South are big hockey fans anyway.
Now, I was ready to agree and compromise, but that's exactly what I disagree with! You are stereotyping southern citizens of the U.S. when you have no basis or stats to back you up. There are probably plenty of fans down there, just as much as the north, but they are not going to games or giving as much fan support because they teams flat out stink! And even if the hockey following down there isn't the biggest, why can't the NHL expand and try to bring in NEW fans?

[Wedge231]

Okay, but I have alot of relatives in the midwest and south and they do not follow hockey. I visited some local card shops down there also and some didnt even carry hockey cards. I do agree if they want to make those teams better and expand the league they must try to reach out to the sothern US but personally, i think canada is a better choice for expansion teams to be made.

[Marc]

The reason local card shops don't carry hockey cards down there doesn't mean no one cares about hockey down there. You have to take into fact that hockey cards are not nearly has its popular as baseball, basketball, or football counterparts.

[lmanchur.]

Yeah, the NHL should expand its market to increase overall revenue and promotion and stuff... so in the 60s or so they let in Los Angeles... then in the 80s they had Dallas... then Tampa, so now they have NHL clubs in three southern states... and then Anaheim and San Jose -- so now that's three clubs in California alone.. then Phoenix... and Tampa Bay and Miami: that's two in the state of Florida... then we plop a few down in Atlanta, Tennesse, and South Carolina.

I think that's pushing it.

Do you realize that the state of Texas has more professional hocky teams than ALL OF CANADA now!?!?!?

..and you made a good point, Marc. you are right: hockey isn't as popular as football, basketball, or baseball in the United States, so WHY EXPAND SO MUCH DOWN THERE!?... sure, give them Dallas, L.A., and MAYBE a team in Florida or Carolina... but what the NHL has done would be like the NFL, NBA, and/or MLB expanding in Halifax, Toronto, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, Saskatoon, Montreal, and Victoria (11 canadian cities) -- there's not THAT much of a market up here for those sports, so why do it!?

We're off the topic of this original thread of the lack of talent in the Southeast Division, and that's partly my fault, but I like this topic much better!

[Edited by SC-Lee on 11-25-2000 at 10:22 AM]

[Marc]

Why expand in the U.S.? To MAKE hockey more popular... and I agree they shouldn't just "plop" so many teams down south so soon at one time, but they should do it gradually.