NHL Officials -- positioning errors?

[lmanchur.]

Being a registered Level II hockey official myself with the Canadian Hockey Assosiation, I don't like to argue with my television when the referee makes a "bad" call (other than that time where the two Leaf players bumped into each other, and then he gave an OTTAWA player a penalty for tripping!!!.. anyone see that a few weeks ago!?... terrible call!... anways...).... anyways, as I said, I don't like to argue with "bad" calls because I kind of know where they're coming from, even though I only do Atom and PeeWee games. However, the NHL officials disobey basically every positioning instruction that we are taught in the ref clinic.

"Never go behind the goal line to switch the side of the rink you are on" -- NHL officials do that

"Never climb the boards" -- NHL officials do that

"When signalling a two line pass, use the arm closest to center ice, so you don't cross over your body" -- NHL officials use their OTHER arm, crossing it over your body, making it difficult to see for the other official.

...and did I mention the encroachments on faceoffs!?... I guess that rule is not even in the book because it's NEVER enforced!!

I'm just wondering... I guess these guys are "professional" so they can do all these things, but I'm just venting about their procedures, because they're almost exactly the opposite of what we're taught!

:goof: RR2

[budman2]

couldn't agree more, the officials seem to be in it for the show sometimes, it varies from game to game and official to official but there seems to be more inconsistency now.
as for that penilty in the ottawa ,toronto game , man i could not believe ( jack ) martin did not climb over the boards at the call, a lot of coaches would have.he showed calm when it was really needed. that is the kind of leadership that is needed in the game today.can tapes of stinky calls go to anyone to review?

[PeterDewar]

Lee,

I definatley see where you are coming from. I can see why these rules are in place, all but #2. Climbing the boards...

Is that just a safety concern for the referees? Are they simply supposed to move or jump away from a puck? Just wondering on that because sometimes it seems as if there isn't much of a choice.

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by budman2
can tapes of stinky calls go to anyone to review?

I don't quite get what you mean.... or if you were just trying to imply something, but I didn't get it... over my head!


Originally posted by PeterDewar
Climbing the boards...

Is that just a safety concern for the referees? Are they simply supposed to move or jump away from a puck? Just wondering on that because sometimes it seems as if there isn't much of a choice.

Well, in CHA refereeing clincs, we're told to jump over the puck it if it's right along the ice or if it's going around the boards, move 1-2 feet out from the boards.... they advise us to NOT climb the boards or glass or sit up on the player's bench (like I see A LOT of times in the NHL) because 1) Our saftey that we don't get hit into the bench, or, if you're climbing on the glass, get hit and fall down hard; 2) The player's safety -- the official's skates can cut something

[budman2]

what i mean is , tapes are sent to colin campbell for review of plays that are deemed "dirty" . can the same be done for" stinky calls " by officials?

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by budman2
what i mean is , tapes are sent to colin campbell for review of plays that are deemed "dirty" . can the same be done for" stinky calls " by officials?

No... not to Coin Campbell... he's not in charge of officiating... I forget what his "official" position is, but it's not that. However, there is ALWAYS a supervisor at NHL games (or most of them, at least), and believe me -- the officials do hear about it if they make a bad call... (especially if you're a young official (rookie)... one single bad game, and you'll probably never get a second chance)... I don't know if really bad calls get to Andy Vanhelemond (sp?) or not, because he's the head of officiating in the NHL, I think...

...but no, not to Colin Campbell... unless he has to deliver a suspension to an official! :D he he -- that's not likely to happen any time soon! :)

[budman2]

isn't bryan lewis the head of officiating? or has he retired?
by the way i still did not get that logo e-mail! just thought i'd mention it.

[PeterDewar]

Lee,

Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense now.

[lmanchur.]

I am sure Brian Lewis is not the head of officiating.. I'll try and look it up, though...

Anyway, budman2, I've attached the leafs logo to this message... am I the first one to try this feature out, Marc!?

[budman2]

thank you mr lee, this is looking very nice and should do nicley for my run with the team for the cup( i meen there run)i wonder what happened to those other downloads?

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by budman2
i wonder what happened to those other downloads?

..you mean how it says "downloaded 3 times"? ...well, I did it once just to see how it worked, and my guess is that Marc or someone did it to see what exactly it was... looks nice! :)

[hockeyref]

The NHL has different positioning standards than USA Hockey, the CHA, or the IIHF. They are really not considered "errors". Bryan Lewis is not the head of officiating. Andy Van Hellemond is but there is a roumer that Andy will move up to Campbells position and current referee Kerry Fraser will become head of officiating. For more info, check out my website.

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by hockeyref
The NHL has different positioning standards than USA Hockey, the CHA, or the IIHF. They are really not considered "errors". Bryan Lewis is not the head of officiating. Andy Van Hellemond is but there is a roumer that Andy will move up to Campbells position and current referee Kerry Fraser will become head of officiating. For more info, check out my website. First of all, welcome to the hockey forum at the Sports Central Message Boards, fellow hockeyref!!!

Thanks for clearing that issue up about the NHL -- it appears I was correct about Van Hellemond, although I did not spell his name correctly! :)

...however, I hope Kerry Fraser doesn't retire his on-ice duties... now all the officials won't have anyone to look up to in terms of perfect hair style!! :D j.j.! -- he's a good official, too... my favorite... but also has the best hair in the league, methinks! :)

BTW, I love your site, hockeyref!... I will be visiting it many times...

[hockeyref]

Thanks for the comments.

Remember In order for Kerry Fraser to become Director of officiating, Colin Campbell would have to leave his "Director of Hockey Operations" job and Andy would have to move up. It is just a rumor, so anything can happen....

[Peck]

Originally posted by SC-Lee
up to in terms of perfect hair style!! :D j.j.! -- he's a good official, too... my favorite... but also has the best hair in the league, methinks! :)


I kind of HATE Kerry Fraser.....he kind like is aganist the Oilers he always like lean towards to other team.....Once when Kovenlako(the time he was with the oilers) was bodychecked into the oilers crease and fell on the puck and Kerry Fraser called a penalty shot since he toched his hands on the puck!!!! For god damn it he fell on it!!

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by Peck
was bodychecked into the oilers crease and fell on the puck and Kerry Fraser called a penalty shot since he toched his hands on the puck!!!! For god damn it he fell on it!!Covering the puck in the goal crease (unless, of course, you're a goaltender) is grounds for a penalty shot at any level of play.

You have to realize that officals have to make quick decisions and don't have the luxury of video replay (except on certain goals), so you can't really base your opinion of an official on just one call that happened to go against your favorite team

[PeterDewar]

I think Kerry Fraser is probably the 1st or 2nd best ref. in the game. He is probably my favorite too.

Question for the refs...
What, if there is one, is the procedure for a face off as far as the refs. arm movement to drop the puck.

I do believe they hang there arm to the side and then quickly move it forward and drop (or actually slam) the puck to the ice. I know this only because players usually watch the hand for movement. How correct am I and also any other little tidbits that most people don't know about faceoffs?

[lmanchur.]

You are a referee!?... with what association?... USA or CHA? What level?

I notice that referees in the NHL usually hold it at their waist and then just slam it down at an angle (at least that's what I see -- it's hard to tell on TV)

If you're in the CHA, you should have been taught that the correct procedure for a faceoff is TWO steps. First, you hold the puck in your NON-WHISTLE hand (there's a good reason for this -- you'll lose your whistle at one point or another if you use your wishtle arm -- i've done it before! :) ...luckily it was only age 7 and under hockey! :) ) at waist height. Then, in a quick motion, you begin the two step procedure: 1) Straight from your waist at a 90 degree angle; 2) drop it down at a 90 degree angle.

You should have really been taught this at the referee clinic... although I hear that USA Hockey doesn't have on-ice sessions at their official clinics... I forget where I saw that, but that's what I heard.

[PeterDewar]

Lee,

Nope, I'm not a ref. Thats kinda why I was asking. Not sure how you got me as a ref. outta that but oh well, lol.

Thanks for clarifying, I guess I was sorta on the right track. Obviously the non whistler hand makes sense, wouldn't mind seeing something like that happen. :D

[lmanchur.]

Originally posted by PeterDewar
Nope, I'm not a ref. Thats kinda why I was asking. Not sure how you got me as a ref. outta that but oh well, lol.

sorry -- i didn't read closely enough...

[hockeyref]

USA Hockey has on-ice sessions at their officiating seminars. The seminar usually starts at 8 and from 8 to 1 is classroom and from 2-5 is ice.

[lmanchur.]

Wow!!!... that's actually A LOT more on-ice time than the CHA clinics!