Whitlock: Ban Mark Cuban from arenas

[buckeyefan78]

Interesting Ellis. I'd like some other pro-Cuban fans to answer that question and then I'll comment on what everyone said. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from here. To repeat for all pro-Cuban fans...

What would be your first order of business if you were an NBA owner with complete control over the franchise?

[HibachiDG]

Originally Posted by Ellis

You people just don't get it.

Right...

On what level does this make sense at all?

[Ellis]

YOU GUYS DO NOT GET IT!!!

Basketball is a team game where each person must work together and make sacrifices in order to reach the top. This doesn't just mean the players... it means everyone involved in the organization.

What people like about this guy is that he is no exception. He treats himself like a fan or a player. The only difference is that he holds the power to speak out against the game and be herd. And he does.

HE STANDS UP FOR HIS TEAM. He doesn't just sit in the press box and watches the game.

He is just like a player. He sits down there with team, showing that he is no better than any of the players.

It's like going into battle. I want to go to battle with a leader who is going to fight with me and not just stand off to the side and watch.

He goes out there with the players and shows passion and battles for his team in every way he can.

He is a team owner and does all of that,which is what we appreciate about him.

[Noon]

Ellis, I'm on your side of this argument.

But stop telling people they don't get it. I think they do get it. I just don't think they agree.

[buckeyefan78]

Not to put you on the spot Noon, but what would you do if you had Cuban's money and were an NBA owner? Just the question I'm askin' pro-Cuban folks.

[Noon]

That's a tough one Buckeye, because if I had Cuban's money, I probably be just laying around, rolling around in it, trying to convince college girls to bang me for my money.

Then, if I did decide to buy a pro franchice, I don't think it would be an NBA team.

However, if pressed, and I did own a NBA team, I'd probably be different than Cuban, because we don't cheer the same way. I'm very introverted when I'm in the stands. Cuban is the fan that gets six beers and screams at the top of his lungs during the games, pissing off everyone in his section. I sit at the edge of my seat during the game and either curse vehomently, albiet silently, or cheer the same way. As far as personel, I'd hire a team president and put the control in his hands and tell him that other than the cap, money is no object. You hire a good president, a good GM, a good coach and a good scouting director and you let them make the decisions. And I believe that's what Cuban has done. The difference is that he cheers in a different way than I do. But it's his team. It's his money. And the fact that he's passionate about his team is part of what makes him a good owner.

And I imagine if I owned an NBA team, that wouldn't hurt getting girls.

On a side note, Jason Whitlock gave me my first job in sports journalism. Think whatever you want about him as a writer, but the guy has done an amazing job carving out his nitche as a national columnist.

[buckeyefan78]

So the fact that he's "passionate about his team... makes him a good owner" is the reason why you agree with Ellis?

[Noon]

Yeah. Winning starts at the top and on the Mavs, the passion starts with Cuban. He goes overboard sometimes and make an ass out of himself, but he really, really cares and he shows it to both the players and the fans.

I'd take that over David Glass.

[buckeyefan78]

Isn't it fair to say that despite having one of the highest payrolls in the NBA Cuban has failed to spend that money wisely considering he hasn't earned a ring yet? He has had 6 years with a payroll that would easily be #1 most years if not for the dysfunctional Knicks. Sounds like failure to me.

Isn't it also fair to say that Cuban wasn't the architect behind the Mavs' roster or coaching success this year considering Don Nelson was coaching since 1997...3 years before Cuban came to Dallas? It was also Nelson's preference that Avery Johnson take over after his illness (Nelson dragged Johnson back from Golden State...NOT Cuban). And it is Nelson's son who is now GM, another "non-Cuban" choice that is rooted before Cuban took over in 2000. Cuban has gone out of his way to hire an amazing amount of "assistant" coaches in comparison to what other teams have on their payroll, yet this fails to produce a title as well. The main architects of the Mavs' success were in Dallas BEFORE Cuban arrived. He didn't bring anyone in besides these assistants (which I doubt are doing anything spectacular because less is more in terms of coaching IMO). It begins at the top, as you noted Noon. I have no clue how active he is in bringing in floor talent.

Isn't it also fair to say that considering the power of Mark Cuban and his status as an owner (as well as being a "great businessman" by the feel I get from the younger posters on here) that instead of simply *****ing and moaning about what is wrong with the league that he should form some sort of association of owners, players, or whoever to address these issues in a civilized and timely manner within the perimeters of the league? I've actually read and agreed with a few of his rants on the economic side of the NBA, but he's not you or me...Joe Nobody. All we can do is complain. What does he do to make a change? He's also been vocal on rules within the league, but aside from a few one-on-ones with Stern...where is the firm, rational action that this amazing businessman and owner has taken to move things in the right direction? Improving the core product is the best way to maintain stability and profit...is it not? At the very least from a fan's perspective...shouldn't this be the measure of greatness for an owner?

The reason why you don't see the cooperation for change is because he is little more than an entitled whining brat. Things should change because HE says so. I could be mistaken here. Everything I've read and seen doesn't show me a true effort by Cuban to unite anyone within the league. You guys can post the link if I'm wrong.

BTW...lookin' for truly great owners? Look up two names: Daniel Biasone and John Bunn. There you'll find men who worked within the confines of the league (the hand that fed them) as well as together (no massive ego trips) to better the game. They put work into the house instead of pissing on it then tearing it down.

[Noon]

I guess it's all about perspective. I think some of the things of the things Buckeye just wrote only exemplify Cuban's strength as an owner.

You want to give Don Nelson the credit for the current roster, that's fine. It was Nelson's preference that Avery take over when he was done, that's fine too. And it's now Nelson's son who is running the show as the GM. And all Cuban has done is hire the top assistants.

You see a guy who has done nothing for the franchise. I see a guy who has avoided one of the biggest missteps an owner can make: He hasn't screwed it up. He didn't fire Nelson to bring in his own guy. He didn't (as far as I know) interfere with the GM's decision while making on-court personel decisions and when Nelson stepped away, he didn't ship out Johnson, who had no head coaching experience, to bring in a more experienced guy. He hasn't tried to overreach or tried to do more than he can. He seems to have entrusted the basketball decisions to smart people. That's more than a lot of owners can say. He's also the owner of the defending Western Conference champions. How many owners in the last 10 years have been able to say that?

Buckeye, I'll defer to you on most matters on the NBA because there's no doubt you've forgotten more than I know, so if I've gotten any of this wrong, you can let me know. But it seems to me you're finding reasons not to like Cuban the owner because you don't like Cuban the person.

[buckeyefan78]

Noon...

I actually agree with most of the premise that the best an owner can possibly do is not screw sh** up. But if that's the case there are DOZENS of owners superior to Cuban. Hell, I'll declare Jerry Buss a better owner than Cuban because he actually managed not to tick Jerry West off to the point that he wanted to leave for a long time. He had him for 20 years (1980-2000). That's a pretty good clip (worth 8 rings to be exact).

Again, I implore you or anyone else to find me something where Cuban has developed a logical business plan to improve the league for which he is a franchise owner. This guy is the Jesus Christ of business...no? You can't. Because it isn't about the league. It's not even about his team. It's about him. The thing is, other owners aren't in war rooms drawing up stuff to better the league but they don't berate officials, disrespect the league, and ***** like a baby EVERYTIME they don't get their way. Most of them are a-blanks. Probably all of 'em are. $ is the goal. But I don't have to deal with them like we do with Cuban. It's the players and coaches we should be arguing about, not a guy who doesn't have to have ANY b-ball knowledge at all to be involved in the league.

If it seems like I don't like Cuban the person it's because he exemplifies a bunch of things that are wrong in the world today. I've been ranting about "the house that shelters you" in here. That's an adaptation of an old political saying regarding members of Congress. You just don't go crazy calling everyone a crook in Congress (even if you are right). You have respect for that house and work WITHIN the confines of it to make it better. What does calling everyone a crook really do besides damage the credibility of Congress? What does moaning about calls really do besides damage the credibility of the league. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT CUBAN! Cuban should sell the team and start a fan's association to improve the game if he was serious and wanted to continue his moaning without going through the proper channels. This guy doesn't do that. And when you make claims of refs "not being fit to run a Dairy Queen," then you are tearing that house down (as well as sounding like an elitist jerk to me anyway...but that's my life and everyone can have their own opinion of course).

But that's the entitlement mindset that I go on about...that SOME/MOST (doin' it PC style) people have nowadays. When you do as he does, you show yourself to others as someone who believes they are better than that house because you don't use the proper channels as they once did. And that "house" in this case has people like Magic Johnson, Larry O'Brien, Chick Hearn, Red Auerbach, Walter Brown and the guys I mentioned above (Daniel Biasone and John Bunn) in it.

You spit on Chick Hearn. I don't acknowledge you...PERIOD.

I find it funny that the pro-Cuban people in here enjoy his "invovlement" like a "regular Joe." Oh the promos. Oh the giveaways. Oh the excitement. This guy is nothing more than McDonalds with a basketball team. He's feedin' you low-quality chickent nuggets that are killin' you but givin' you a Happy Meal toy at the same time and you guys are eatin' it up.

Problem is he isn't a regular Joe despite coming off as one. He has the power to make things better and does nothing to better his product (thanks Tray for that quote...I've stolen it for good). If you think he's a great owner or great for the NBA then you've got some low standards and have a lax definition of accountability (isn't a general social norm that people in power have some kinda MORAL responsibility?)

Lowering of standards and no accountability? Ha...another topic we could get into. That's a big problem all around the NBA...and life.

[Tarkus]

Passion is a good thing tho in different situations can be a liability. Cuban shows an everyday kinda average joe approach to his enthusiasm which regular fans can relate to & that's great.

However, to keep reading the articles floating around, as examples, about how Cuban needs to buy the Cubs to save them or to be the next LA based NFL owner & also to lead the NFL, the most successful sports venture on the planet, to earning more capital in the new technology age as tho the NFL are wet behind the ears, is just ludicrous.

Cuban's main draw is that we have a billionaire cavorting with the locals & throwing money around to win a championship which are great things for entertainment & potentially buying a trophy but it's portrayed as tho he's re-invented the wheel.

I'll personally give him kudos for being a passionate, money's no issue owner but I'd like to see a pro Cuban layout of where he's so rock solid in his sports acumen that a lot think he's the best out there.

[buckeyefan78]

Mr. Technology can't solve the problem that guys can't put the biscuit in the basket in the NBA.

I doubt he could "dotcom" the number of quality starting pitchers in the league to give more balance in MLB.

The NFL is pretty solid. But that's not a problem. Mr. Technology could come in and make unnecessary changes and they'll tell us that it's for the best. Gotta fiddle with sh** even when it ain't broke.

[tobynosker]

Buckeye's rants always seem to stir me up a little bit, and I will hopefully post more when I get a chance.

But I want some explanations first:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
instead of simply *****ing and moaning about what is wrong with the league that he should form some sort of association of owners, players, or whoever to address these issues in a civilized and timely manner within the perimeters of the league?...Cuban should sell the team and start a fan's association to improve the game if he was serious and wanted to continue his moaning without going through the proper channels. This guy doesn't do that.

Do you really believe that owners and players would ever come together to form an association to challenge issues in the league, such as poor officiating during the playoffs? I don't.

And do you really believe that Mark Cuban would be taken seriously by other owners and the league if he started a fan association that brought up issues with the NBA, as opposed to being an owner bringing up those same issues? I don't.

At least I don't as you present them.


I agree with USA Today columnist Jon Saraceno who wrote "When will David Stern realize that a restless owner who cares enough about the product to publicly question its weaknesses is his biggest ally?"

[buckeyefan78]

I hope someone is going to explain to me the payroll numbers I listed and Nelson's previous employment to me as I'll try to do my best to answer all questions. Just a hope.

First off, I was making a semi-joke with the reference of Cuban selling the Mavs and starting a "fan association" because he would have just as much say over things as he does now as an owner: NONE.

I also dug a bit more and actually found a FEW cases where Cuban has done something somewhat rational within the context of the proper channels.

I found that Cuban has made some formal requests that he feels would help the game within the proper channels (Competition and Rules Committee). From what I found, he basically proposes an idea (as all teams do at the meetings every year)...it gets shot down...and then he goes on his blog and moans about it...LOL. Then he tells everyone he "has the numbers to make it a go." This guy is amazing. And people hold him up as a great owner and businessman? The one in particular I found was about having a "3rd party" review refs. LOL. Yea, owners already have given that power to Stern...the "3rd party." But Rockefeller should be able to change that with his business savvy and shear greatness as a human being...right?

I'll do my best here to "PC" my response as I continue on. Let me just say that when you spit on Bob Cousy's jersey everyday, you're not going to get smiles walking down the hall from other owners and other high-ranking league names. I understand that I can't go too much into the concepts of integrity and what it means to be humble and show respect to the house that shelters you for fear of "hurting feelings" of others. I also can't dive into how professionalism and workplace politics dictate how anyone can be a success and change things from within because I might "UNentitle" what some people believe is owed them. Moving on...

Having said that, it would seem to me that men who have worked their whole lives (some are a-blanks... others are real contributors) aren't too receptive to someone who isn't willing to work within the context of the game...for the most part. If you want to label it as some "good old boys" network...go right ahead. But that doesn't change the fact that if Cuban is Jesus Christ (which I believe some think he is), he should be able to overcome this fact...shouldn't he? Al Davis won titles, was a pioneer in minority hirings, and managed to piss everyone off in the meantime. And I thought he was just a senile old man?