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Old 10-28-2005, 08:22 PM   #1
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Default HOF 2005 List

Here is the list for the 2005 HOF. Which 1st year eligibles will go?
I think just:
Troy Aikman
Reggie White

M. Irvin will prob get in this time around too.



(x-first year of eligibility, y-last year's 15 finalists list):

QUARTERBACKS -- (8) x-Troy Aikman, Ken Anderson, Jim Hart, Jim Plunkett, Phil Simms, Ken Stabler, Joe Theismann, x-Warren Moon.

RUNNING BACKS -- (6) Ottis Anderson, Roger Craig, Chuck Foreman, George Rogers, x-Thurman Thomas, Herschel Walker.

WIDE RECEIVERS -- (13) Cliff Branch, Harold Carmichael, Gary Clark, Mark Clayton, Isaac Curtis, Mark Duper, Henry Ellard, x-Irving Fryar, y-Michael Irvin, y-Art Monk, Drew Pearson, x-Andre Reed, Sterling Sharpe.

TIGHT ENDS -- (5) Mark Bavaro, Todd Christensen, x-Ben Coates, Russ Francis, Brent Jones.

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN -- (16) x-Bruce Armstrong (T), Jim Covert (T), x-Dermontti Dawson (C), Ray Donaldson (C), y-Russ Grimm (G), Jay Hilgenberg (C), Chris Hinton (G-T), Kent Hull (C), Joe Jacoby (T), Mike Kenn (T), y-Bob Kuenchenberg (G), Henry Lawrence (G-T), Nate Newton (G), Rich Saul (C), Jeff Van Note (C), Gary Zimmerman (T).

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN -- (16) Curley Culp (DT), Fred Dean (DE), y-Richard Dent (DE), Chris Doleman (DE/LB), y-L.C. Greenwood (DE), Charles Haley (DE/LB), y-Claude Humphrey (DE), Ed "Too Tall" Jones (DE), x-Cortez Kennedy (DT), Joe Klecko (DE-DT-NT), Dexter Manley (DE), Charles Mann (DE), x-Clyde Simmons (DE), Fred Smerlas (NT), x-Neil Smith (DE), x-Reggie White (DT/DE).

LINEBACKERS -- (17) x-Cornelius Bennett, Matt Blair, Robert Brazile, y-Harry Carson, Randy Gradishar, Kevin Greene (LB-DE), Ken Harvey, Rickey Jackson, Clay Matthews, Karl Mecklenburg, Sam Mills, John Offerdahl, Darryl Talley, y-Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett, x-Jessie Tuggle, Brad Van Pelt.

DEFENSIVE BACKS -- (11) Steve Atwater (S), Joey Browner (S), Kenny Easley (S), Lester Hayes (CB), Albert Lewis (CB), Fred Marion (S), Lemar Parrish (CB), Ken Riley (CB), Donnie Shell (S), Everson Walls (CB), y-Roger Wehrli (CB).

SPECIAL TEAMS/WIDE RECEIVER -- (1) Steve Tasker.

PUNTERS/KICKER -- (3) Ray Guy (P), Nick Lowery (K), Reggie Roby (P).

COACHES -- (5) Don Coryell, Tom Flores, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knox, Dan Reeves.

CONTRIBUTORS -- (11) Gil Brandt, Ed DeBartolo, Jr., Pat Haggerty, Art McNally, Art Modell, Ed Sabol, Steve Sabol, Paul Tagliabue, Ralph Wilson, Jr., Ron Wolf, y-George Young.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:23 PM   #2
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Reggie White is obviously a slam dunk.
Aikman probably gets the nod as well due to winning three Super Bowls.
I'd say Thurman has a pretty decent shot at getting in as well.

I'd love to see Sam Mills get in but I doubt that he does.
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Old 10-29-2005, 08:18 AM   #3
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Reggie White is getting in on the first ballot, no question.

I'm not sure about Aikmin as a first ballot Hall of Famer.. #46 in TD's, #20 in yards.

Warren Moon is far more deserving: #4 in yards and #5 in TD's. he doesn't have the rings, but neither does Marino. his career numbers are far better then Aikman and was far and away the best black QB in NFL history to date. Moon's meaning to the NFL and African Americans outweighs Aikmin's rings, who'd I'd be more willing to credit to Emmitt Smith then any other single Cowboys player during the time anyway.

if you look at the top 10 passing yards in a single season Moon (#7 and #8) and Marino (#1 and #4) are the only names you'll see listed twice.

Art Monk needs to be in the Hall of Fame before Irvin gets in. Monk has a ring and better career numbers (+817 yards, +3 TD's) then "the Playmaker"

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Old 10-29-2005, 09:26 AM   #4
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Warren Moon is the most deserving player on that list besides Reggie White. He not only has some of the most impressive numbers for any QB's but he paved the way for black QB's in the NFL, choosing to go to the CFL after playing at the University of Washington, instead of switching positions like other black QB's of the time. Troy Aikman won rings because he played on some of the most talented teams in the history of the NFL. Those Cowboys teams had multiple future Hall of Famers. Aikman deserves to get in some day because he did win all of those Super Bowls but his numbers aren't comparable to Moon's, not even close. It will be a travesty if Aikman makes it in on the first ballot and Moon does not.

1. Reggie White
2. Warren Moon

I can't come up with a solid potential third. There are a lot of deserving players, especially in their first year of eligibility.
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Old 10-29-2005, 04:10 PM   #5
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But, the one big thing Aikman has going in his favor besides the rings is his charisma and likeability. People like him and the media has always responded very favorably to him. Very similar to Bradshaw whose numbers are very mediocre but he had tons of charisma and won Super Bowls.

I forgot about Moon. I would say he gets in as well.
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Old 10-30-2005, 09:03 PM   #6
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Don't get me started on the Art Monk HOF thing again.

I think Aikman gets in due to his solid numbers and 3 rings. Moon for me benefited from 17 years in the league to put up his numbers, rather than being an outstanding QB.
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Old 10-31-2005, 03:37 PM   #7
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I would definitley put Aikman and Moon in, along with Reggie White for a 3rd selection.
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Old 10-31-2005, 04:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Moon for me benefited from 17 years in the league to put up his numbers, rather than being an outstanding QB.
there's no way I'd sell Warren Moon short by saying his numbers came from playing in the NFL for so long. you could blow off Dan Marino by saying the same thing. Moon was in the league for so long because of his skill. there's only one starting QB and his talent kept him in that role for so long because of talent.

Moon means much more to the NFL and the sports world then Aikman does. his career numbers are much better. you can credit most of Aikman's sucess because of the talent around him, namely Emmitt Smith. Moon, like Marino, was more of a one man show.
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Old 10-31-2005, 04:35 PM   #9
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Moon had two or three outstanding years and if you honestly believe that he means more to the league than a three time super bowl champ, then I'm shocked. It's easy to say that Aikman benefited from his supporting cast, but in turn, does that mean we need to induct Trent Dilfer because of who he didn't have to win a Super Bowl?
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Old 11-01-2005, 03:56 PM   #10
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Moon also benefitted from the Run and Shoot offense. That said, he still gets my vote for the gaudy numbers he put up.

The others getting my vote are:
The Minister (RIP)
Aikman (begrudgingly)
Irvin (in the first tier of WRs all-time. Again, begrudgingly)
Art Monk (it's about fricking time)
Cortez Kennedy (8 pro-bowls in 11 years including 6 in a row. 1992 Def POY)
Charles Haley (100.5 career sacks - 20th all time. 5 SuperBowl rings)

I'd also have to give some consideration to Roger Craig. He only had three seasons of 1000+ yds (career total: 8189 yds) but also caught a remarkable 483 receptions from 1983 to 1989 (avg. of 69 per year) including a 1985 season where he caught 92 balls for 1016 yds (in addition to 1000+ on the ground). For his career, he totalled 566 receptions for 4911 yds. And while these numbers would indeed be great still today even with the Marshall Faulks, Brian Westbrooks and LaDanian Tomlinsons of the world, these type of receiving numbers in the mid 1980s for a RB were unheard of. He (with a great deal of help from Bill Walsh's offense) truly revolutionized the RB position, and added a potent offensive weapon to the 49ers attack, one which would soon be adopted nearly league-wide.

In all, he finished his career with 13,100 yards from scrimmage and 73 TDs. Probably not good enough for the Hall, but an extremely noteworthy career nonetheless.
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Old 11-01-2005, 03:58 PM   #11
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Cornelius Bennett ought to go.
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Old 11-02-2005, 08:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Moon had two or three outstanding years and if you honestly believe that he means more to the league than a three time super bowl champ, then I'm shocked. It's easy to say that Aikman benefited from his supporting cast, but in turn, does that mean we need to induct Trent Dilfer because of who he didn't have to win a Super Bowl?
Moon was a 9 time Pro Bowl who, overall, had a great career. look at his numbers vs Aikman... it's not even remotely close. Aikman is #46 in TD's, #20 in yards.. Moon is #4 and #5 by comparison. Moon is a first ballot HoF'er, Aikman is second ballot.

Dilfer winning a Super Bowl doesn't have anything to do w/ getting in the Hall of Fame.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:40 PM   #13
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Moon might have had "gaudy" numbers, but I would venture to say he will never be in anyone's top 10 quarterbacks of all time list..........but neither will Aikman
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:00 PM   #14
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Interesting point. Moon would not be on my top ten list of QB's. I would take Aikman though... multiple rings say alot.
My top ten (in order of who I would want 1st):
1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. Steve Young
4. John Elway
5. Jim Kelly
6. Troy Aikman
7. Brett Farve
8. Dan Marino
9. Johnny Unitas * (Never saw him play, but his records are enough)
10. Terry Bradshaw * (Again, never saw him play...)

Only 2 on my list have never won a SB....
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Old 11-02-2005, 10:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdogsong
Moon was a 9 time Pro Bowl who, overall, had a great career. look at his numbers vs Aikman... it's not even remotely close. Aikman is #46 in TD's, #20 in yards.. Moon is #4 and #5 by comparison. Moon is a first ballot HoF'er, Aikman is second ballot.

Dilfer winning a Super Bowl doesn't have anything to do w/ getting in the Hall of Fame.
And once again, his numbers benefited from playing 17 mostly healthy years , where as Aikman only played 12 with the last three years of his career cut short by injuries. Aikman also went to 6 straight pro bowls. Statisically Moon had 3 outstanding seasons where he was playing in the run and shoot offense in Houston 91,92 and with the Vikings in 95. Then look at all the other years where his TD throws only just outweigh his interceptions. Aikman was a big game QB who should be a 1st ballot HOF, where as Moon has the career numbers, but not much else.
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