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Old 02-14-2003, 02:05 PM   #1
buckeyefan78
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Default NFL to question Millen's hiring policy...look out, here comes trouble...

According to the Detroit News, the NFL has asked Matt Millen to explain the hiring of head coach Mariucci and whether or not the team adequately considered hiring minority canidates. This right here, is COMPLETELY JUNK, and I don't won't to speak for others, but even those who are pro- minority hiring process, should be able to see how stupid this is. Hold on for a second, it gets better...

Upshaw, who is head of the NFLPA, Jesse Jackson, and Johnny Cochran have all criticized the Lions for not interviewing atleast one minority canidate. Dan Rooney, President of the Steelers,and head of the committe on the minority hiring matter, said the Lions " fell short" of committe guidlines after Mooch's hiring.

The Lions are facing a possible fine or punishment in regards to draft picks.

At the news conference announcing Mornhigweg's firing, Millen said he would follow league guidelines in regards to the minority hiring practice.

Now, here is where it gets nice and juicy...

And I quote from the ESPN pick up of the story from the Detroit News..." A source within the league, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said five minority canidates turned down interview requests from the Lions because it appeared inevitable that Mariucci would be hired"

Good Lord almighty, have we all lost our minds here?


So basiclly, the committe is CONSIDERING punishment for the Lions for hiring Mooch, who, and I think I am not going out on to much of a limb here, everyone on the boards here thinks is ATLEAST a good coach, because no minority canidates were interviewed.

Then word gets out how 5, that's right, AS MANY AS 5 minority canidates turned down interviews with Detroit, cause everyone knew Mooch was in. Hell yeah they knew Mooch was in cause Mooch is a PROVEN WINNER and a damn good coach !!!!! What the hell were the Lions to do, kidnap a black assistant from somewhere and FORCE him to have an interview?

Rooney is an idiot, and this whole committee, IN IT'S CURRENT SET UP, is a joke. I have said many times that the idea of the minority hiring pracitce CANNOT be judged fairly until it has some major tweaking done to it. And now the Lions are going to get screwed cause no minorities wanted to be interviewed? This is junk. I have NO IDEA how anyone can defend this. If I was an assistant coach, regardless of my color, and someone contacted me for a head coaching position, why wouldn't I ATLEAST GO to the interview, even if I knew I wasn't going to get it? What could it hurt? Hey,maybe I could make a good impression on someone in Detroit, and down the road, who knows? Or maybe someone I talk to in Detroit ends up somewhere else and then another job opens up there and I have an " in". This all sounds fishy to me. And Millen and the NFL are going to meet next month on the issue.

This above event, and whether or not the Lions get punished for it or not, is a complete DISGRACE for the NFL, the Players Association, the owners and presidents, the ACTUAL MINORITY HIRING PRACTICE, and all sane people everywhere.

The sad thing is, in the end, the practice, which I still believe may be viable if tweaked properly, will suffer in the end along with the further division of people inside the NFL on the issue. But we will never know if the practice could actually work, cause we have a league full of idiots playing paddy-cake with each other...SHEESH


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Old 02-14-2003, 04:26 PM   #2
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Well obviously there is no need for me to say anything here...............lol.............its pretty well known where I stand on this.

I actually believe Dave, even though we debated many related issues and then some well beyond............lol..........thinks the hiring of Mariucci was fine also, correct if i'm wrong Dave.
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Old 02-14-2003, 06:20 PM   #3
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i don't think Detroit deserves to be investigated or punished. the NFL policy is stupid and f'ed up. teams will hire however they like so interviewing a minority candidate does nothing excpet create one more interview
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Old 02-15-2003, 03:24 AM   #4
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Funny how they're not considering any "sanctions" against Dallas - guess that means the Cowboys must still be America's Team!
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Old 02-15-2003, 04:55 PM   #5
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No ... the Packers are now officially America's Team, according to the latest poll.

That aside, this is utterly ridiculous. In this country, you shouldn't dictate a company's hirings, such as with the Lions, which the NFL is practically doing. Even if teams "interview" minority candidates, it doesn't mean they will get the job if they already have their minds set on other candidates. This process is completely ineffective.
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Old 02-15-2003, 06:18 PM   #6
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I agree with most of the stuff said ... not much more that I could add on that hasnt been said already
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Old 02-16-2003, 03:51 AM   #7
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What I think is really going on here is that the NFL is afraid of negative publicity - possible boycotts and the like; if people stopped buying licensed products with the team logos on them it could inflict considerable financial damage on the league, and it would affect all 32 teams since the revenue from such sales is shared like almost everything else in Paul Tagliabue's socialist paradise. The last thing they want to see is something like what almost happened at the Kentucky Derby back in 1967, when civil-rights demonstrators planned to lie down in the stretch at Churchill Downs and the governor ended up calling out the National Guard to prevent it.
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Old 02-17-2003, 01:07 AM   #8
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Couple of things: 47, right on. I'm in total agreement that Detroit should be untouchable here, and Dallas as well, since Anthony raises the point, but for different reasons.

1. The NFL established guidelines without determining a punishment. It should be reponsible enough to create guidelines to follow and tell you what consequences you'll suffer should you ignore/not-abide-by said guidelines. If the NFL fines the franchise, I'd happily support and suggest mightily that the team sue the league, likely killing the guidelines in their present form.
2. Despite Millen's protestations otherwise, and while he may have attempted to abide by the guidelines, he knew exactly who he wanted to hire. The timing of the two firings aren't coincidental. The firing of Mornhinweg doesn't happen without the firing of Mariucci, and the subsequent conversation between Millen and Mariucci regarding the Mooch's desire to fill the job.
3. I don't know if Detroit merchandise sells enough to be concerned about boycotts, and I don't think the fallout exists in Detroit.
4. Gene Upshaw needs to be more concerned about correcting an idiotic league rule regarding first use of banned but legal substances, while illegal substances require being caught twice (and maybe more than that, if Moss's situation is what it appears to be) than whether Detroit hires a minority head coach or not.
5. While Dallas hired a guy they wanted, I think part of the excusal (sic) of the Cowboys is that they entered the discussion process of hiring a new coach before the hiring guidelines were in place. As a token, despite having come to all but written agreement with Parcells, Jones did talk with Denny Green.
6. 78- Give Rooney a break, will ya? He's the chair of the committee. He has to say what the committee says.
7. For the final time: NO ONE IS TELLING ANYONE WHOM TO HIRE; THE LEAGUE IS MERELY TRYING TO OPEN DOORS THROUGHOUT THE LEAGUE WHERE THERE MAY STILL EXIST CLOSED DOORS.
8. Did Jacksonville interview a black candidate? Someone should call Johnny Cochran.

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Old 02-17-2003, 03:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by MountaineerDave
I don't know if Detroit merchandise sells enough to be concerned about boycotts, and I don't think the fallout exists in Detroit.
Detroit merchandise doesn't matter; if Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton etc. called for a boycott of NFL Properties across the board, all 32 teams would feel the pinch because NFL Properties revenue is shared by all of the teams, regardless of whose logo generates the most sales.


Quote:
Did Jacksonville interview a black candidate? Someone should call Johnny Cochran.
No, but they hired a Hispanic candidate, making them completely immune from any consequences under the "guidelines." And the light-skinned/dark-skinned argument is a non-starter - otherwise Herman Edwards would only "count" as half an African-American since his mother is a white German immigrant.
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Old 02-17-2003, 11:46 AM   #10
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I stand by calling Rooney an idiot Dave. Anyone who sits back on this Lions situation without calling for a halt to the practice to get it re-tooled is at the very least, a major moron.The question is, are Rooney and Upshaw this ignorant?This situation with the Lions will ultimately ruin any creditablity, in my eyes anyway, of all involved, the currently flawed minority hiring practice, and may even damage a re-tooled practice in the future. Why are Upshaw and especially Rooney so PC on this one? What the hell do they have to lose?

My biggest question is this. Did the league make public they were going to investigate Millen BEFORE OR AFTER it became known five minority canidates turned down interviews? Cause if the league went after Millen AFTER finding out 5 minorities turned down interviews, instead of proposing a re-tooling, or doing something else, they look like complete idiots in my book.

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Old 02-18-2003, 05:08 PM   #11
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What do they have to lose? is a good question. Upshaw does it in lieu of going after one of the dumber--dumber even than the minority interview requirements, in my opinion, because it matters every day--rules the NFL has on the books. It would really behoove the players to oust Upshaw, I think, because he's an awful rep and dances to whatever music the owners play.

Rooney. I don't know what he has to lose. It seems likely that, if he's still with the team at the time, whenever Billy's time in the 'Burgh is over, he's painted himself into having to hire Ted Cottrell, Romeo Crennel, Tim Lewis, Lovie Smith, or some other black assistant I don't know who is available at the time.

Well... I think that the stories came out around the same time, but I also believe that league was aware of the minority refusals before they announced that they would investigate.

I wonder if the investigation is taking place as a precursor to the retooling. One also wonders if the Fords have no friends in the league. Maybe they're the new Al Davis. I'm not sure it actually makes sense to propose a retooling prior to talking to Millen, though. Best for the committee to have a couple of examples to mull over, and Millen's testimony (such as it is) will likely be a good place to start considering what and where to retool. Anthony's proposed exceptions are a decent jumping-off point, but more needs to be done that excepting.

I've proposed in another thread that the guidelines need a minor reward system in place, so that organizations advancing the cause of minority development have some reason to change their ways. I do not believe a fine or the reduction of draft choices is the way to go. Penalties for advancing something that the natural flow of the population will eventually--but not speedily enough-- fix seem a foolish prospect and only raise hackles that I don't think would be raised, at least not as highly, if rewards were used.

Of course, publicly announcing an investigation that may or may not be to appease the likes of Jesse Jackson doesn't mean that the investigation wasn't already set or, heck, even mostly complete at the time of the announcement.

I'm out of touch with the real world. Is the world really is such a state that Jesse Jackson has suddenly revived his reputation as a voice to follow on ANY matter? And please don't tell me that because Al Sharpton is running for the Democratic nomination for President that he's a serious voice anywhere except maybe with the folks in his neighborhood. I won't go so far as to say the NFL is boycott-proof, but... if I'm Tagliabue, I will avoid a public war of words with Jesse, on principle, not because he's right.

Maybe Tags needs to step down. I'm actually looking forward to the day that Condoleeza Rice throws her hat in the NFL Commissionership race. I think anyone whose ambition is to be the commissioner of the NFL deserves the job. I'm sure it'd be more fun that the stupid National Security Advisor job she currently has... (I'm serious. I think anyone whose professional motivation has been, since meeting Rozelle, is to be NFL Commissioner should have a strong opportunity to get the job. And, I think she'd quit the government job to do it.)

I've gotten far afield as usual. Quitting now, before I start into race at the college level...

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Old 02-18-2003, 08:17 PM   #12
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Another lenghty, but well received post Dave....LOL.

I see your theory on following through the Millen investigation to see what retooling needs to be done. I HOPE that is all that they get out of that one.

Upshaw..an awful rep.. 100% with you on that one Dave. Anyone who follows the NFL knows the players have bigger problems then this and Upshaw has neglected those problems or made them worse through appeasement of owners over time.

Rooney having to hire a black coach. Yeah, I think he's painted himself into that. Maybe he has someone in mind, who knows. Again Dave, I like Rooney overall, just hate how this is playing out.

Are the Fords the new Al Davis ? No clue on this one. I'm a little leary of Millen myself. Never really liked him.

Jackson and Sharpton are wind bags. I can't stand either of them. They have no credibility with me. The only thing that stands them apart from Johnny Cochran is that Jackson and Sharpton are in positions of trying to help minorities and are considered "leaders" of the black community. We live in a country where nearly 25% of all blacks live under the poverty level, and these two idiots argue over the movie Barbershop and blacks in the NFL.... It REALLY irks me that two men who could help advance and enhance the life of blacks in this country are the equivalent of mindless senile old men going on about anything that strikes their fancy. In the end, it's the black community that suffers,and it's a damn shame cause of these two morons.

I LOVE YOUR CONDOLEEZA RICE statement and you know why Dave? While I quit thinking of politics as a viable solution to matters of life years ago, I still consider myself very liberal and one who likes NOTHING about Bush. Then Rice comes on and actually prepares and makes rational thoughts on Bush's views that I can't help but respect and even AGREE with ! She is a no nonsense professional. Not only would she make a better commish then Tags, but she would be a much better President then Bush !!! Ok, off topic again, but funny you brought it up.

Back to the minority hiring practice. My fear, and has been since the beginning, is that if the practice isn't tweaked and prepared properly in it's guidelines, punishments, and rewards, it will be a joke. One that will only hurt the league.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:58 PM   #13
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Off-topic, but Dave, can you check your PMs? I sent you one and it is still unread. Thanks!
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Old 02-20-2003, 04:04 AM   #14
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One way for the NFL to resolve this issue is to take a carrot-without-a-stick approach. Here's how it might work: If a team hires a "minority" candidate to fill a head-coaching vacancy, they receive an extra draft pick, 16 selections after their normal first-round pick (or where that pick would have been if they traded it away). If this was already in effect, for example, the Lions would have also picked #18 overall as well as #2 if they had hired a black coach instead of Steve Mariucci. It stands to reason; by forgoing a "proven winner," a team is making a sacrifice, and one could argue that they should be compensated for making that sacrifice. But there should be no penalty for not hiring a minority candidate, though.

If one of the owners were to propose something like this, it would most likely be approved - and maybe then this whole controversy will go away!
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Old 02-20-2003, 01:15 PM   #15
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Anthony, I don't like that idea. I don't think teams should be bribbed with extra draft picks, so that teams will hire minority coaches. This controversy would not go away with this new approach either, and it might make the whole controversy even worse. Once again, the owners of teams should be able to hire who they deem best for the job...whether that is politically correct or not.

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