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Titans100 09-22-2005 11:54 AM

Turning up the Heat
 
Well, it was announced earlier on ESPN.com that the Heat are 99% through finalizing a contract deal with PG Gary Payton. It is clearly obvious that this is yet another attempt for GP to get himself onto a winning team and try to win a NBA Championship. GP was a terrific player back with Seattle and is now just simply a good player. I think GP and The Mailman lost sight towards the end of their careers when they both signed with the Lakers on the "gurantee" of winning a NBA Title.

However, don't get me wrong. GP is just the thing that the Heat needed. He now helps solidify the bench more than ever. If GP would have been in the Eastern Conference Finals last season all the times Wade was injured, then I would have taken the Heat over the Pistons.

All in all, another terrific pick-up for the Heat organization:D

SoCal sports 09-22-2005 01:40 PM

Yeah, I dont see anybody, especially in the east having a chance against Miami. I would favor Miami over anybody in the west as well but I would give the Spurs and Suns a chance. Wade has quickly become on of my favorites, maybe they will trade him to the Lakers for Kobe, I can dream.

Titans100 09-22-2005 03:58 PM

wow a laker fan that doesn't like Kobe? Or do you think that Wade is better than Kobe? I'm not bashing you or anything, i just think it's weird that a Laker fan would want to trade away Kobe?

doublee 09-22-2005 06:26 PM

Titans100 you may find one or two other Lakers' fans not overly enamored with Kobe as well.

Good pickup for the Heat. Payton can still give you 20-25 good minutes a night and I would rather have him closing out games at the point than Jason Williams.

I still give the edge to the Spurs though. Finley, Barry, Van Exel, Parker, Manu, and Udrih give them so much more verstatility on the perimeter than anyone else can put on the floor right now.

blackdogsong 09-22-2005 07:38 PM

Heat vs Spurs the whole way. but Spurs are still my pick. Finley was a great pickup.

But Payton ensures the Heats have a legit point guard (or two) on the floor at all times.

something the Pistons sure could use. last season Lindsey Hunter was a bit suspect. have they made any moves?

doublee 09-22-2005 09:33 PM

No they haven't, but the experts think that if and when Delfino and Arroyo mature they can be stars in the league. If Arroyo gets his head out of his butt he has shown that he can be a quality NBA PG.

Marc 09-22-2005 09:51 PM

I'm not enamored by Payton anymore, so this doesn't impress me. Frankly, it seems like the Heat are going after big names more than guys who can help them win. Look how far L.A. got with Payton. The Glove is more like a the Fish Net nowadays.

doublee 09-22-2005 10:13 PM

Well, a lot of that had to do with Kobe and not how productive he could be. There was a double standard of sorts when it came to Kobe and Payton. Kobe did whatever he wanted on the floor, but if Payton strayed from Phil's offense he got benched and chewed out. Gary felt disrespected by Jackson so, he did what most tempremental stars due in that situation he packed it in and quit trying. Payton showed last year in Boston that he can still help a team win. Besides, it is not as if they are bringing him in to be the primary backcourt player.

Clipps 09-22-2005 11:50 PM

Just 4 years ago, Payton was still listed as a top 5 PG. Damn . A lot can change in 4 years

SoCal sports 09-23-2005 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Titans100
wow a laker fan that doesn't like Kobe? Or do you think that Wade is better than Kobe? I'm not bashing you or anything, i just think it's weird that a Laker fan would want to trade away Kobe?

I liked Kobe before all the junk started, but since then he has shown me that he is pretty selfish and basically cares about only himself. While some people dont care much about the intangibles they are very important to me. I think Wade has one of the best attitudes in the NBA and can already lead by example at such a young age. I also think that Wades attitude makes him more valuable to his team than Kobe. Kobe I think has more natural talent but is really struggling with how to use it at this point. Most people might disagree but I would trade Kobe for Wade anyday, at least at this point.

Dublin Mike 09-23-2005 05:17 PM

So who is the starting PG in Miami? Williams or Payton?

doublee 09-23-2005 05:47 PM

Mike, I am anticipating a situation similar to Stoudamire/Anthony in Portland several years ago where Stoudamire go the bulk of the minutes and Anthony played in crunch time and closed games.

I think Williams probably starts the majority of the time with Payton getting the crunch time minutes and Payton possibly drawing starts when he matches up better against the opposing team's PG.

Shawndo 09-29-2005 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marc
I'm not enamored by Payton anymore, so this doesn't impress me. Frankly, it seems like the Heat are going after big names more than guys who can help them win. Look how far L.A. got with Payton. The Glove is more like a the Fish Net nowadays.
I pretty much agree with that. Now granted he had issues in LA, but even when it was obvious he was playing his best, his age still showed. You could tell he was really trying against Tony Parker but Parker just ran circles around him.

I should make a funny comic about GP riding Shaq's coattails... :lol:

japardo 09-30-2005 03:06 PM

Kobe for Wade? You gotta be kidding. Sure, Kobe has his issues here and there, but you don't think that Shaq had anything to do with it? I am a huge Shaq fan, and Kobe. But Shaq had nowhere near the same attitude with Wade as he had with Kobe. When Shaq and Kobe played together, Shaq was in his prime and threatened by Kobe to be the #1 guy. Years later in Miami, Shaq is established even more, and there was no way, even if he wanted, that Wade could threatens Shaqs status as the number 1 guy!! Plus Shaq knows he's slowed down a little, so he has DIGRESSED to Wade. If he had the same attitude with the Lakers, they might still be together. Granted Kobe can be selfish, but at times he had to be. Shaq dominated for 3.5 quarters, but Kobe was EXPECTED to be the man down the stretch becasue of Shaqs free throw problems. Hard to be the man in the 4th quarter, and not allowed to be the man the whole game. Give and take. Shaq does it now in Miami, but not in LA!!! Kobe has the talent and drive to be the next Jordan. While Wade is awesome, Kobe has certin intangiblers, that Wade doesnt, at least yet. That could change, but I think this year, we will see the true Kobe

SoCal sports 10-01-2005 05:13 AM

I sure hope we see a better Kobe. I think that Wade makes the players around him better, while Kobe makes the players around him lazy. I would still trade Kobe for Wade. As far as Kobe and Shaq fighting over who the go to guy is that just proves my point, its not an issue with Wade. He cares about winning first and his own stats last.

doublee 10-01-2005 01:42 PM

Well, the biggest difference between Kobe and Wade is that Kobe wants all of the accolades and the media kissing his butt telling him how fabulous he is and Wade could care less about the press fawning all over him. Kobe seeks the spotlight and Wade lets the spotlight come to him. That is why Shaq gets along with Wade moreso than Kobe.

SoCal sports 10-01-2005 03:21 PM

Exactly.

blackdogsong 10-01-2005 03:28 PM

any GM would trade Kobe away for Wade. Wade is younger, cheaper, and has a huge upside. Kobe has already peeked and entering his 10th season i believe.

Kobe already has all the accolades he needs. he is still skilled, has the rings, and a multimillion dollar deal w/ Nike. what spotlight does he want? he's got it all already.

japardo 10-04-2005 04:31 PM

peaked at age 27!!! you gotta be kidding!! he is just entering his prime. and with all that happened over the last 2 years, we are seeing a hungrier, more humble Kobe. Yes, he wanted all the accolades and to be a top dog. But Shaq had much to do with that as well. Shaq NEVER had this attitude with Kobe, it was all about Shaq. Shaq wants more money, wants the ball down the stretch, fouled too much, blah blah blah. Kobe HAD to take over in the 4th quarter, yet was expected to lay low the first 3? Michael didnt start winning till he was 27, so Kobe has a head start, and the Lakers are looking like a young Bulls dquad, when Michael was a ballhog, Pippen was just getting his feet wet. It took them 2-3 years before there 1st championship. Kobe is not a virgin dressed in white, but dont make him out to be the devil in this as well. It takes two to tango, and he and Shaq were to blame. But never underestimate the determination of Kobe, and that is the one thing that is most comparable to Michael.

buckeyefan78 10-04-2005 10:51 PM

japardo...

If you keep putting Kobe in the same sentence with MJ, the sun is going to hurl itself towards earth and kill us all in a fiery display of God's wrath. I prefer to die the way God truly intended: watching my Lakers win 38 games for the next 10 years in a slow, painful demise.

Thank you.

Billy D 10-04-2005 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buckeyefan78
japardo...

If you keep putting Kobe in the same sentence with MJ, the sun is going to hurl itself towards earth and kill us all in a fiery display of God's wrath. I prefer to die the way God truly intended: watching my Lakers win 38 games for the next 10 years in a slow, painful demise.

Thank you.

lol

japardo 10-06-2005 12:53 PM

then you must not really be a Lakers fan. do the math, and look at Kobe's age. This is the age where Michael came into his own- with Phil and Scotties assistance of course. It wasnt until the rape charge that the Kobe haters came out. Prior, he was constantly used in the same breath as MJ. And Kobe still has 10 more years to prove himself, on HIS team now.

SoCal sports 10-06-2005 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by japardo
then you must not really be a Lakers fan. do the math, and look at Kobe's age. This is the age where Michael came into his own- with Phil and Scotties assistance of course. It wasnt until the rape charge that the Kobe haters came out. Prior, he was constantly used in the same breath as MJ. And Kobe still has 10 more years to prove himself, on HIS team now.

It wasnt until the rape charges that the Kobe haters came out, I believe thats the reason people became Kobe haters. Pretty good reason to. I think people wont compare them until Kobe gives reason to. I also dont think you should judge yourself a true fan of a team because you like all their players. I love the Lakers, I would say that makes me a good fan when I support them even though I dont like all the players.

japardo 10-06-2005 05:57 PM

Would you want someone to be a "socal hater" based on the hearsay of a 19yr old girl who was looking at her 10 seconds of fame?

No one will ever know the truth, but last I checked, this is America- innocent until proven guilty.

My point about not being a Lakers fan is that of knowledge, and automatically looking at Kobe for all that is wrong with the Lakers. Yes, he had a hand in the downfall, but it was equal parts with Shaq and less so with Phil. Being a Lakers fan since the late 70's gives me some insight I believe. Had Shaq the same attitude in LA that he has now in Miami, and maybe Kobe would be more humble and less after the accolades in the past. But Shaq made that difficult, not to mention, all he wanted was money. Yet in Miami, he took LESS than what the Lakers offered him previously.

Kobe aint perfect, but enough with the bashing. He is top 5 in the NBA and this season, you'll see just why, again.

Shawndo 10-06-2005 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buckeyefan78
japardo...

If you keep putting Kobe in the same sentence with MJ, the sun is going to hurl itself towards earth and kill us all in a fiery display of God's wrath. I prefer to die the way God truly intended: watching my Lakers win 38 games for the next 10 years in a slow, painful demise.

Thank you.

I'll put Kobe in the same sentence with Jordan right here again and again..... wear some SPF 3 million if you feel the need :lol:

Shawndo 10-06-2005 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by japardo
then you must not really be a Lakers fan. do the math, and look at Kobe's age. This is the age where Michael came into his own- with Phil and Scotties assistance of course. It wasnt until the rape charge that the Kobe haters came out. Prior, he was constantly used in the same breath as MJ. And Kobe still has 10 more years to prove himself, on HIS team now.
japardo--

Buckeye is a FORMER diehard Lakers fan (Showtime era). You would have had to be around on this board for a couple years to know all the rounds we went on that issue. He still considered himself a Lakers fan until the dichotomy became too much to ignore (love Lakers, hate Kobe, Kobe = Lakers). Buckeye hated Kobe LONG before the rape charges surfaced.

So let me save you a few hours, japardo, and let you know right now that the sun will come hurtling toward the earth in a fiery demonstration of the wrath of God before you will "sell" our friend Buckeyefan78 on the merits of Kobe Bryant ;)

buckeyefan78 10-07-2005 12:54 AM

If you recall Shawn, I still consider myself a Laker fan. I said that since I've been a fan longer than that no personality, selfish, no respect for elders, defensive gambling ego maniac has been alive, I was sticking it out. I can wait til he breaks a leg or someone locks him in a storage room deep inside the Staples Center and throws away the key (hmmmm ?)

I will say that WHEN Buss gives the go ahead and retires his number, then that will present a problem. His jersey has NO RIGHT to be beside #32. Note to self: call L.A. County Sheriff's Department and see how much the fine is if you break in the Staples Center and remove one framed jersey and wipe your a** with it.

SoCal sports 10-07-2005 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by japardo
Would you want someone to be a "socal hater" based on the hearsay of a 19yr old girl who was looking at her 10 seconds of fame?

No one will ever know the truth, but last I checked, this is America- innocent until proven guilty.

My point about not being a Lakers fan is that of knowledge, and automatically looking at Kobe for all that is wrong with the Lakers. Yes, he had a hand in the downfall, but it was equal parts with Shaq and less so with Phil. Being a Lakers fan since the late 70's gives me some insight I believe. Had Shaq the same attitude in LA that he has now in Miami, and maybe Kobe would be more humble and less after the accolades in the past. But Shaq made that difficult, not to mention, all he wanted was money. Yet in Miami, he took LESS than what the Lakers offered him previously.

Kobe aint perfect, but enough with the bashing. He is top 5 in the NBA and this season, you'll see just why, again.


I should have included that even if Kobe did not rape that girl which he probably didnt, that at best he is an adulterer. My bad. Also him dragging Shaq into his problems by telling on him was not cool. Nobody likes a rat. I think Kobe is incredibly talented, I just dont like all the garbage that comes with him. Of course it was not just Kobes fault, it was Shaqs as well as far as them not getting along but Shaq is gone now so the focus is on Kobe. I have also been a Laker fan since the mid/late 70's when I was a little kid, grew up watching them. So I like to think I also know a little about the Lakers. Believe me, I hope the Lakers have a great season as well as Kobe, but Kobe only because he will have to have a great year for the Lakers to go anywhere.

japardo 10-07-2005 12:33 PM

My point is this. I don't care if he is an adulterer or not. If he raped someone, prove it and put him in jail. Otherwise, I dont care who is sleeping with who. The NBA is becoming too much like Hollywood, when all I care about is what happens on the court. BUT some fans put too much credence into the personal lives of athletes, and consider them "role models". They play sports and they are good at it!! If my son sees an athlete as a role model, then I need to do a better job as a parent! Don't get me wrong, I looked up to athletes as a child, but I didnt get my values and ethics from them!! People today need to stop looking at athletes to provide ethics and values for kids. WRONG. Unfortunately for whatever reasons, many of these athletes have never been taught themselves. You can take a person out of the ghetto, but you cant get the ghetto out of a person.

Let Kobe play, and let's see what happens this year. Reserve judgement until we see how this season plays out. This is make or break year for Kobe and his tarnished image.

japardo 10-07-2005 12:35 PM

Cooper gets the steal, outlets to Magic on the break, who passes it to Worthy on the wing for an easy layup!!

Word!! Lakers showtime baby!!

SoCal sports 10-07-2005 01:53 PM

Thats where we differ I guess. In my opinion thats one of the problems with this world, nobody cares about what kind of people we are just can you shoot a basketball or catch a pass instead of trying to be a decent person. That is a bad example that a lot of people set for their kids. Just my opinion though. Like the showtime reference. I dont doubt Kobe could have a big year, but I would rather have Wade.

Shawndo 10-07-2005 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by buckeyefan78
If you recall Shawn, I still consider myself a Laker fan. I said that since I've been a fan longer than that no personality, selfish, no respect for elders, defensive gambling ego maniac has been alive, I was sticking it out. I can wait til he breaks a leg or someone locks him in a storage room deep inside the Staples Center and throws away the key (hmmmm ?)

I will say that WHEN Buss gives the go ahead and retires his number, then that will present a problem. His jersey has NO RIGHT to be beside #32. Note to self: call L.A. County Sheriff's Department and see how much the fine is if you break in the Staples Center and remove one framed jersey and wipe your a** with it.

oh.my.god. I thought we had settled that.
We'll just let it be obvious to EVERYONE ELSE that you can't be a CURRENT fan of the Lakers and hate Kobe Bryant that much.

Shawndo 10-07-2005 02:19 PM

back to the topic of this thread- does anyone else agree with me that the Heat are looking like the team to beat this year so far? (over San Antonio)

SoCal sports 10-07-2005 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shawndo
oh.my.god. I thought we had settled that.
We'll just let it be obvious to EVERYONE ELSE that you can't be a CURRENT fan of the Lakers and hate Kobe Bryant that much.


Are you serious? Their have been teammates who hate eachother and still love their team. I dont remember hearing a statement that wrong before. I dont think you can be a true fan of basketball if you just blindly go for a team and dont care about who is on it. If you think a guy is a distraction to your team and you want him gone, I would say that is caring about your team more than the individual no matter if their opinion is agreed with or not, they just want whats best for their team. I'm a Laker fan first and a fan of some of the players after that.

Shawndo 10-07-2005 03:06 PM

ok perhaps not quite EVERYONE else.
Yes, I am serious, SoCal sports.. Kobe IS the Lakers, not just another player on the roster.
I see where you're coming from, but if you hate watching Kobe, you're going to hate watching the Lakers, and how can you be a fan of something you hate to watch? That's where I'm coming from..

blackdogsong 10-07-2005 03:33 PM

Quote:

back to the topic of this thread- does anyone else agree with me that the Heat are looking like the team to beat this year so far? (over San Antonio)
no, the team to beat is the defending champ at least until we into the season a bit. the Heat made a lot moves which you could say they did or did not need. since we only know how they look on paper but we haven't seen the new unit play yet so you can't say the Heat are the team to beat for the title. however, they would be my pick in the East.

however, the Spurs don't have to do much to stay Champions this season. they only thing they needed was another solid player on the bench and they have more then filled that need w/ Michael Finley.

Horry, Barry, and Finley coming off your bench gives you amazing depth. the three guys combined can play all five postions on the floor.

Shawndo 10-07-2005 04:24 PM

I agree that both SA and MIA made some very aggressive and respectable off-season acquisitions, no doubt about that.
By 'team to beat', I mean who do you think is going to be the superior ballclub come post-season. I know it's just about blind speculation at this point, so it's more of a 'wild guess' type of thing just for fun..
I think as long as Shaq remains healthy, it's real hard to bet against him.

doublee 10-07-2005 07:04 PM

blackdog you forgot about Van Exel off the bench as well. Their second five of Van Exel, Barry, Finley, Horry, and Nesterovic is about as good as it gets in terms of NBA benches and that is not even mentioning the fact that they still have Glenn Robinson coming off the bench as well. Not too bad for someone who could potentially be the 11th guy off your bench.

buckeyefan78 10-08-2005 01:34 AM

Kobe IS the Lakers is pretty accurate Shawn. That's why they suck though. If the Lakers were a team, instead of being a manifestation of Kobe's ego, they would be winners.

Magic was never just another player on the roster too Shawn. Thing is, Magic never thought of himself as the ONLY player on the roster. Kareem had a little Kobe in him and it did sour me a little on him during his playing career. Thing is, the man produced rings on cue and wasn't a complete a-blank like Kobe is.

Big difference there. And that is something Kobe doesn't understand. I can still watch though. There is always the hope the scoreboard falls from the rafters right on #8's giant head.

socal...

I too cherish the ENTIRE organization and what it stood for... on and off the court. That's why I'm a fan of the Lakers and not of Kobe Bryant. This is the biggest challenge the organization has ever faced. I hope they can turn it around by getting rid of the classless losers within the organization and showing they can handle adversity. They have few people left there that I would consider upstanding human beings (Rambis, Vitti, Magic to name a few) that it takes to return the team to past glory.

SoCal sports 10-08-2005 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shawndo
ok perhaps not quite EVERYONE else.
Yes, I am serious, SoCal sports.. Kobe IS the Lakers, not just another player on the roster.
I see where you're coming from, but if you hate watching Kobe, you're going to hate watching the Lakers, and how can you be a fan of something you hate to watch? That's where I'm coming from..

See your point. I still watch every Laker game I can but I admitt I spend a lot of time bad mouthing Kobe which does effect my viewing enjoyment. He is the Lakers right now, and that is what scares me. I worry the Lakers will end up like the Sixers with Iverson. One guy doing all the scoring and being just an average team. The Sixers at least eventually put enough character players with Iverson to make a run at a championship. The Lakers don't have that supporting cast right now but I think they will be a little better than last year. I think bringing Phil back will just add to the ego problems, but I guess time will tell.


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