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-   -   Week 11 Top Ten... (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=15323)

buckeyefan78 11-05-2006 03:59 PM

Week 11 Top Ten...
 
Ohio State and Michigan got a scare but are still the best IMO...

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Wisconsin
4. Southern Cal
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Notre Dame
8. Oklahoma
9. West Virginia
10. Rutgers

HibachiDG 11-05-2006 05:48 PM

1. Ohio State
2. Louisville
3. Auburn
4. Florida
5. Michigan
6. LSU
7. Texas
8. West Virginia
9. USC
10. Arkansas

Dublin Mike 11-05-2006 05:57 PM

1.Ohio State
2. Louisville
3. Michigan
4. Rutgers
5. Boise State
6. Texas
7. Arkansas
8. USC
9. Florida
10. West Virginia

Sorry, but imo, if you have a loss at this point of the year, you don't deserve to be in front of the guys that don't, I don't give a damn who they have or have not played.

themush 11-05-2006 05:57 PM

Buck, I can't help but notice you have no SEC teams in there.

Here's mine:
1. OSU
2. Michigan
3. Florida
4. Louisville
5. Auburn
6. Texas
7. USC
8. LSU
9. WVU
10. Arkansas

Mike, Boise State in the Top 5 are you on medication?

The Executioner 11-05-2006 06:46 PM

good college football season as always. will check in with a rankings.
buckeyefan, just to let you know, you have Wisconse at number three and no SEC team in the top 10.

1. Ohio State
2. Auburn
3. Michigan
4. Florida
5. Louisville
6. USC
7. Texas
8. Arkansas
9. California
10. LSU

HibachiDG 11-05-2006 07:02 PM

Quote:

buckeyefan, just to let you know, you have Wisconse at number three and no SEC team in the top 10.
He knows, it is hilarious that he does, so I certainly don't begrudge you pointing it out, but he without a doubt knows this. I highly doubt he can defend it, which is why I assume he constantly ducks out when called on it.

Alex 11-05-2006 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Graham (Post 221818)
He knows, it is hilarious that he does, so I certainly don't begrudge you pointing it out, but he without a doubt knows this. I highly doubt he can defend it, which is why I assume he constantly ducks out when called on it.

Their SOS isn't as strong as the mighty Pac-10. :rolleyes:

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Louisville
4. Texas
5. Arkansas
6. Auburn
7. Florida
8. Cal
9. Southern Cal
10. LSU

HibachiDG 11-05-2006 10:08 PM

The funniest thing about that is that he uses the SOS argument to artificially prop up the Pac-10, but it would hurt the Badgers, so I imagine he's very conflicted there.

Aside from that, SOS is a link in the chain, it is never...evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvver a statistic that should be used on its face. Buckeye has a huge flaw with how he uses SOS, and I'm not doing this just to rip buckeye, I know I've hinted at this a couple times. But, his logic is really, really bad on strength of schedule.

For starters, it makes no sense to add up the SOSs of all the teams in a conference and then average it and boom...that's the toughest conference. This makes sense on no level.

The main reason is that conferences level out because you're constantly playing each other. For instance, of the 11 Big Ten teams, 6 of them will likely have 6 wins or more. Maybe 7 if Indiana beats Purdue. The SEC will have something like 7-8. The Pac 10 will have 6. The point of bringing this up is that teams 5 through 7 in the Big Ten, Purdue, Indiana, Iowa wouldn't get 6 wins if they were to replace a team in the SEC. Conference play allows teams to generally slip into an arc of Conference wins.

From there, you have to look at the depth of these Conferences. If a Conference is deep, there is less of a chance that the teams at the top run the table or finish with 1 loss. The Big Ten is going to finish with an undefeated team and 2 teams with 1 loss. The Pac-10 will be similar. The SEC won't. This is not because of SOS or anything like that, it has to do with conference depth...BUT...this factors in to SOS and the Pac-10 and Big Ten teams have their SOS artificially propped up.

I also think buckeye might be using one of those preseason SOSs, but there's so many out there, I really can't make that claim 100%, but it is my hunch. Those are even sillier because they are predicated on myth.

Strength of Schedule needs a huge tweak if it is to be used as a stand alone statistic. I'm not sure if I would be opposed to turning the current SOS analysis (opponents win% and opponentsopponents win%) into a state called schedule assessment, and use it in the BCS formula as normal, but then creating another statistic, SOS, that would add a team's position in the BCS into the equation somehow, then churn out the BCS once again. I don't know if that is the FIX, I haven't seen it in action, but it would make more sense in theory.

But, then again, SOS doesn't need to be fixed, since most people don't take it for more than what it is anyway. Buckeye clearly does, to his disadvantage.

Non-Conference SOS is a stat to consider, though. Any SOS including conference games is just silly, though. Just take non-conference SOS and then look at the actual strength of the conference and you'll be better off. The SEC teams will have weaker non-conference schedules, so, you balance that with how the conference is in a given season.

buckeyefan78 11-06-2006 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themush (Post 221806)
Buck, I can't help but notice you have no SEC teams in there.

Here's the deal mush...

1. Ohio State...no problem right?

2. Michigan...no problem right?

3. Wisconsin...senior QB, second leading rusher behind Wolfe, best lines (when taking both into account) in the nation, and a road loss by 14 points to a team that I had as #1 up until this week.

4. Southern Cal...strong SOS, lost on the road with many injuries, and playing the best conference in the nation...IMO.

5. Texas...home loss to #1 otherwise it has been domination.

6. Louisville...undefeated.

7. Notre Dame...home loss to #2 Michigan, still with a strong SOS despite it going down in recent weeks.

8. Oklahoma...neutral loss to Texas, road loss to Oregon (note: no SEC team went on the road to a high-ranking BCS school this year...which means Oklahoma would have only 1 loss by "SEC rules" despite the loss of their QB and partial loss of Peterson)

9. West Virginia...road loss to an undefeated...this is basically the same team that spanked the SEC champ from last year which means I can take them or leave them over an SEC team...and I just happen to be taking them right now.

10. Rutgers...undefeated, nice rushing attack, good defense.

My main problem here is that I firmly believe you have to have Arkansas as your #1 SEC team since they are the only undefeated in conference play. But they lost to a team with one loss while Wisconsin, Notre Dame, West Virginia and Texas all lost to a team with no losses. In all fairness, if we expanded the rankings I'd probably have Arkansas at #11.

Alex 11-07-2006 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 (Post 221881)
9. West Virginia...road loss to an undefeated...this is basically the same team that spanked the SEC champ from last year which means I can take them or leave them over an SEC team...and I just happen to be taking them right now.

The 2005 season is over. Deal with it. Trust me, I wish it was still 2005 but it isn't. What West Virginia did to the '05 Georgia team should have no impact on the rankings at this point in the season.

Please post the SOS rankings you use to develop your rankings. SOS is a worthless claim without anything to back it up with.

tobynosker 11-07-2006 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
5. Texas...home loss to #1 otherwise it has been domination.
It took a game-winning field goal for Texas to defeat a fairly mediocre Nebraska team, and an impressive rally from a 21-point defecit for Texas to beat another mediocre team in Texas Tech to continue their winning ways. And that all occured within the last three weeks.

Maybe I need to look up the definition of the word "domination" again, but I don't think Texas has been displaying it all season.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex
The 2005 season is over. Deal with it. Trust me, I wish it was still 2005 but it isn't. What West Virginia did to the '05 Georgia team should have no impact on the rankings at this point in the season.
I couldn't agree more.

I mean, I don't see Nebraska getting a favorable ranking in the polls based off of their win over Michigan last season.

buckeyefan78 11-07-2006 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex (Post 221916)
The 2005 season is over. Deal with it. Trust me, I wish it was still 2005 but it isn't. What West Virginia did to the '05 Georgia team should have no impact on the rankings at this point in the season.

Please post the SOS rankings you use to develop your rankings. SOS is a worthless claim without anything to back it up with.

I agree that the Sugar Bowl has no impact on the rankings this year. My point here is that I believe the Big East is a worthy BCS conference and used historical evidence to back that up. Evidence where the Big East beat the SEC since the two conferences haven't played each other this year.

My SOS rankings are from Jeff Sagarin of USA Today. SOS plays a role in my decision making. It isn't the whole basis of my poll. I believe Sagarin is credible for several reasons...

1. If you believe in the BCS you must acknowledge Sagarin because he is a hand of the system.

2. Jeff Sagarin is an agent of a poll that determined national champions in prior years.

3. If a playoff ever comes to fruition it is my belief Sagarin and/or the entity he now represents will play a factor.

I have everyone covered there. The pro-BCS people, the old poll people, and the playoff people. The only way to discredit him is to be a staunch traditionalist (as I am) and not recognize national champions at all.

Anyway, the basis of my post was to show that I believe all the teams I have ahead of Arkansas/any SEC team deserve their ranking. I'd be more than happy to go over any specific team that you'd like and why they deserve to be in over Arkansas or any other SEC team.

HibachiDG 11-07-2006 04:34 PM

I don't think anyone is going to try to discredit Jeff Sagarin. But, it's how people misuse his data, that is the problem.

suedon1970 11-07-2006 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 (Post 221791)
Ohio State and Michigan got a scare but are still the best IMO...

1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. Wisconsin
4. Southern Cal
5. Texas
6. Louisville
7. Notre Dame
8. Oklahoma
9. West Virginia
10. Rutgers

Your Big Ten/anti-SEC bias is hilarious. Yes, Wisconsin only lost to Michigan away, but that is the ONLY ranked opponent they will face this year. Florida lost to Auburn away by less than two touchdowns, and btw beat three ranked opponents. If Wisconsin is so great, why are they still only ranked 14th or 15th depending on the poll? Oh, I think I answered my own question....

USC lost to an unranked opponent, and has beat only one so far this year. You don't even have Cal on your list, and they are undefeated in the "mighty" Pac 10........

Notre Dame.....don't even get me started. Beat one ranked opponent, got whipped by another the next week at home, and that's it. USC will probably have two more losses by the time they meet on Nov 25....

West Virginia......:rolleyes:

Rutgers....I will add them to my list if they beat Louisville this Thurs, but before that, nope. Heck, Wisconsin should be ranked before them, even with their joke of a schedule......

IMO, none of these teams I mentioned should be ranked before Auburn, Florida & Arkansas.........

buckeyefan78 11-07-2006 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suedon1970 (Post 222008)
Your Big Ten/anti-SEC bias is hilarious. Yes, Wisconsin only lost to Michigan away, but that is the ONLY ranked opponent they will face this year. Florida lost to Auburn away by less than two touchdowns, and btw beat three ranked opponents. If Wisconsin is so great, why are they still only ranked 14th or 15th depending on the poll? Oh, I think I answered my own question....

USC lost to an unranked opponent, and has beat only one so far this year. You don't even have Cal on your list, and they are undefeated in the "mighty" Pac 10........

Notre Dame.....don't even get me started. Beat one ranked opponent, got whipped by another the next week at home, and that's it. USC will probably have two more losses by the time they meet on Nov 25....

West Virginia......:rolleyes:

Rutgers....I will add them to my list if they beat Louisville this Thurs, but before that, nope. Heck, Wisconsin should be ranked before them, even with their joke of a schedule......

Name the specific team you believe deserves to be in over the ten I have in there and I will go thru it point by point using that team and all ten teams I have listed.


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