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-   -   Christian at Christmas Time (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=15919)

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228709)
I apologize if I come off as angry, but it is crazy how you Chirstians insist on pushing this stuff down everyone's throat. Do it on your own time.

There's the problem. You assume that we don't feel like your secular version (just presents, booze, and friends) is being shoved down our throats. A religion is a set of beliefs that one subscribes to. So your beliefs are also a religion. Why not honor all religions that are represented in a caertain area? Considering that all of them pay taxes to fund the public school, and the majority of them will attend some type of church on any give Sunday morning, why should only one set of beliefs be honored?

No need to apologize, you were simply stating your opinion. This argument won't sound nice, simply because of it's nature. Let's all just aim to keep it civil.

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:08 PM

It is really strange for someone to insist on things such as religion in public places. Are not content with practicing religion in the places intended for religion? Why must EVERYONE be subjected to you religion? The songs such as "Frosty" are universal songs that mean nothing in particular and are simply fun for children. Perfect for a school situation. There is nothing there that should offend you. You say the holiday is originally about Christ, but only for Christians. You fail to recognize that WE ARE NOT ALL CHRISTIANS. Would you be happy if we just decided not to acknowledge the holiday at all, because if you and your fellow Christian cult continue to force it upon people that is what will happen. Be happy that most of this country is Chirstian and celebrates the same holiday as you. Quit acting like Christians are the ones being persecuted. Everything on TV and in stores is about Christmas. You have plenty of areas and time to celebrate YOUR holiday. I think if we continue to allow schools to be secular Christians will survive.

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228716)
It is really strange for someone to insist on things such as religion in public places. Are not content with practicing religion in the places intended for religion? Why must EVERYONE be subjected to you religion? The songs such as "Frosty" are universal songs that mean nothing in particular and are simply fun for children. Perfect for a school situation. There is nothing there that should offend you. You say the holiday is originally about Christ, but only for Christians. You fail to recognize that WE ARE NOT ALL CHRISTIANS. Would you be happy if we just decided not to acknowledge the holiday at all, because if you and your fellow Christian cult continue to force it upon people that is what will happen. Be happy that most of this country is Chirstian and celebrates the same holiday as you. Quit acting like Christians are the ones being persecuted. Everything on TV and in stores is about Christmas. You have plenty of areas and time to celebrate YOUR holiday. I think if we continue to allow schools to be secular Christians will survive.

It was originally about Christ. Christmas. You may not celebrate it that way, but that does'nt change it's original intent.

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 (Post 228714)
There's the problem. You assume that we don't feel like your secular version (just presents, booze, and friends) is being shoved down our throats. A religion is a set of beliefs that one subscribes to. So your beliefs are also a religion. Why not honor all religions that are represented in a caertain area? Considering that all of them pay taxes to fund the public school, and the majority of them will attend some type of church on any give Sunday morning, why should only one set of beliefs be honored?

No need to apologize, you were simply stating your opinion. This argument won't sound nice, simply because of it's nature. Let's all just aim to keep it civil.

No this is where you are wrong. Secular beliefs in schools mean NO BELIEFS allowed. And no one is shoving anything down Christians throats. I am not insisting we put on a holiday play about drinking and sing Irish drinking songs, am I? I am talking about something that everyone can agree on, aka Frosty. What is offensive about that. It doesn't mention any belief system at all, it only mentions the season and things that are fun for children. I didn't know that this was a belief system. But according to you it is.

Please tell me, why can't we just practice our own beliefs in the areas they belong, at home or in church.

I'll make a deal with you, when Churches start paying taxes, you can sing all the Christmas songs you want in schools, in court, or at the public library. Until then, keep your religion at home, and we will maintain the separation of church and state.

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228721)
No this is where you are wrong. Secular beliefs in schools mean NO BELIEFS allowed. And no one is shoving anything down Christians throats. I am not insisting we put on a holiday play about drinking and sing Irish drinking songs, am I? I am talking about something that everyone can agree on, aka Frosty. What is offensive about that. It doesn't mention any belief system at all, it only mentions the season and things that are fun for children. I didn't know that this was a belief system. But according to you it is.

Please tell me, why can't we just practice our own beliefs in the areas they belong, at home or in church.

I'll make a deal with you, when Churches start paying taxes, you can sing all the Christmas songs you want in schools, in court, or at the public library. Until then, keep your religion at home, and we will maintain the separation of church and state.

No. That's where you're wrong. Secular beliefs means no beliefs? You believe that Christ has no place in this "Holiday Season". You said it yourself, secular beliefs. That means that beliefs are coming out through the school. I'm saying why teach only one belief?

The people in them pay taxes, so why should it matter?

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:25 PM

I never said Christ has no business in th Holiday season, when did I say that? I said IN SCHOOLS. You can do everything in the world involving christ, on your time and your dime. Not the tax payer's dime and not my time. Please answer my fundamental question, why do you have to do this stuff in places where there are people that don't want to see it? You have plenty of outlets for religious thoughts and practices, why must it be in the one place where THIS SOCIETY HAS DECIDED that it is inappropriate? Please tell me... I think I know why, because Christians won't be happy until everyone else is Christian, or at least until everyone has to see and take part in Christian ceremonies. It is absolutely obvious.

HibachiDG 12-20-2006 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 (Post 228719)
It was originally about Christ. Christmas. You may not celebrate it that way, but that does'nt change it's original intent.

I find this argument hilarious whenever I hear it. Do you really think that society would not have invented a holiday such as this without Christ? I have zero problem with people celebrating Christmas because of Christ, but just because Christ was out the foundation of Christmas does not mean that all these years later someone has to celebrate Christmas and recognize Christ at the same time.

The problem to me comes when you begin to dictate what something should be about to other people. Christ, Gods, religion is/can/has been a great thing to a great many people. It has been something recognized, influenced, and celebrated by a great many people. The problem is that just because the majority of the population to a public school celebrates Christmas, does not mean that Christ and certain religious ideals should be brought to everyone in a public school.

Towards InTheNet's problem, I don't see what the school did as a WAR or anything of that sort. Your kid has many other options for singing religious Christmas songs. Why should a public school be that forum?

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:27 PM

No. That's where you're wrong. Secular beliefs means no beliefs? You believe that Christ has no place in this "Holiday Season". You said it yourself, secular beliefs. That means that beliefs are coming out through the school. I'm saying why teach only one belief?

Once again, I don't want any of my belifs taught in schools either. I want them to teach children things that don't involve RELIGION! Why can't you understand that. Once again, non of my beliefs are represneted by Frosty the snowman or 2+2 = 4. Those are things EVERYONE BELIEVES. What is wrong with teaching things that EVERYONE BELIEVES. What am I suggesting we do in schools that is something that you can't believe?

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228727)
I never said Christ has no business in th Holiday season, when did I say that? I said IN SCHOOLS. You can do everything in the world involving christ, on your time and your dime. Not the tax payer's dime and not my time. Please answer my fundamental question, why do you have to do this stuff in places where there are people that don't want to see it? You have plenty of outlets for religious thoughts and practices, why must it be in the one place where THIS SOCIETY HAS DECIDED that it is inappropriate? Please tell me... I think I know why, because Christians won't be happy until everyone else is Christian, or at least until everyone has to see and take part in Christian ceremonies. It is absolutely obvious.

You don't want to see Christ, and I don't want to see evlution (a faith based account of creation). How is that different?

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228733)
No. That's where you're wrong. Secular beliefs means no beliefs? You believe that Christ has no place in this "Holiday Season". You said it yourself, secular beliefs. That means that beliefs are coming out through the school. I'm saying why teach only one belief?

Once again, I don't want any of my belifs taught in schools either. I want them to teach children things that don't involve RELIGION! Why can't you understand that. Once again, non of my beliefs are represneted by Frosty the snowman or 2+2 = 4. Those are things EVERYONE BELIEVES. What is wrong with teaching things that EVERYONE BELIEVES. What am I suggesting we do in schools that is something that you can't believe?

Not everyone believes evolution. So you must be against it.

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:30 PM

That's the difference between me and you. Am I suggesting we teach children that marijuana can be a mind-operning experience, because I believe that. NO. I don't want to teach anything in schools unless it is either fact or something that we can all agree on. You are the only one wanting things in schools that are controversial.

CKFresh 12-20-2006 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 (Post 228738)
Not everyone believes evolution. So you must be against it.

They teach evolution AS THEORY, just like they teach about religion as THEORY. They do teach religion in schools. Do they make us watch plays and sing songs about evolution? No. they simply teach the THEORY!

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228739)
That's the difference between me and you. Am I suggesting we teach children that marijuana can be a mind-operning experience, because I believe that. NO. I don't want to teach anything in schools unless it is either fact or something that we can all agree on. You are the only one wanting things in schools that are controversial.

Im not saying I want things that are controversial. I'm saying things like evolution are controversial and you don't seem to have a problem with it. I'm simply saying if we're going to educate children on controversial things like evolutiuon, they should have the same chance to learn about Christianity.

chiefsfan27 12-20-2006 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228741)
They teach evolution AS THEORY, just like they teach about religion as THEORY. They do teach religion in schools. Do they make us watch plays and sing songs about evolution? No. they simply teach the THEORY!

They do not teach religion (besides evolution) in public schools. They may say that evolution is just a theory, but the delve deeply into evolution while failing to mention even the basics of God's creation.

Heathen 12-20-2006 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 228707)
Why can't you just enjoy YOUR holiday on your own time. Why does it have to be on public funded areas. What's wrong with church, or your own home. Public schools are secular. It wouldn't matter if it was a jewish song, a muslim song or a christian song. Public school is secular in nature. Why do you insist on making YOUR religion part of the public life. Why not just enjoy YOUR holiday in places where everyone is Christian i.e. CHURCH!!!!!

AMEN!!! :thumbup:

Oh and the reason why Evolution can be proven is here.


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