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Cure 12-21-2006 04:16 PM

CK: What I'm really waiting for is the discovery of life on other planets... interested to see how that is explained by religion, and whether such creatures would go to hell or not.

I guess it would probably depend on what sort of aliens... if they're like the movie Aliens, then I'm guessing hell...but what about the Contact aliens that disguise themselves as humans to be nice to Jodie Foster?

RavenPoe 12-21-2006 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBuddhaPup (Post 229057)
But if you disagree, aren't you going to hell?:eek: :redhot:

*stoking the flames* *heh*:D

Whether we agree or disagree is moot. You and I are both standing in the middle of hell. :redhot:

RavenPoe 12-21-2006 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure (Post 229059)
CK: What I'm really waiting for is the discovery of life on other planets... interested to see how that is explained by religion, and whether such creatures would go to hell or not.

I guess it would probably depend on what sort of aliens... if they're like the movie Aliens, then I'm guessing hell...but what about the Contact aliens that disguise themselves as humans to be nice to Jodie Foster?

This would only work to prove that the existence of God and the angels is more likely. They aren't from earth so by definition, they are extra-terrestrial, right?

BigBuddhaPup 12-21-2006 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky the Kid (Post 229058)
I'm not sure what your point is with this. I don't know how this applies to the argument you are all having about religion and science...Anyway, Abraham Lincoln loathed and detested slavery. He thought it was the greatest evil of his time. He fought his whole life to end it, and ultimately lost his life to the cause. Frederick Douglass thought he was one of the greatest men he'd ever known, and he and Lincoln considered each other personal friends.

He thought black people were in a state of degeneration because of the crimes committed against them by the white men who held them in bondage. This is not a ridiculous belief. Millions of people were held in complete captive, and most were forbidden to be educated. This is not a good thing to happen for a group of people, and is bound to have negative consequences. He felt that because of all the injustices they suffered, it was better to send them off so they could have their own colony after an eventual emancipation. He thought it would be natural for freed men to immediately turn around and attack their oppressors. This is a belief he held early in his life, and later came to see that he was wrong. Frederick Douglass convinced him by asking Lincoln why he would want to leave his country? Many men feared emancipated slaves would take up arms and seek vengeance against their former captives. It is a miracle of modern times, and a serious tribute to the honor of those emancipated slaves that they did not do this.

Lincoln did not parrot the sentiments of his time, but because he was a statesman, he understood those sentiments, took them seriously, and tried to use them to bring about sollutions to the problems of his day for the public good, and benefit of all. He succeeded. Go tarnish someone else--it'll be a lot easier-- if that's what you're trying to do.


I wasn't tarnishing Lincoln... I was being objective about him, he did say those things in debating Douglas... my point was show it is easy to take talking points and use them however you will...in the end they are usually just fluff... Putting Lincoln in any discussion when someone is talking about discriminating against gays, and women is ridiculous... I guess the point was missed....

BigBuddhaPup 12-21-2006 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229060)
Whether we agree or disagree is moot. You and I are both standing in the middle of hell. :redhot:

Hell is other people? Are you being existential again?;)

Richard the Lionheart 12-21-2006 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229043)
Ricky the kid, what is scary about me? I am only asking that they don't force religion down our throats, he is insisting we all follow his religion.

Well, maybe scary is the wrong word. I disagree with both of you, however. I don't like religion forced down anyone's throat, and I don't like hearing people insulted for having religious beliefs. I am open to all the mysteries of life. I don't pretend to know for sure if there is a God or not, but I believe its possible. Every belief has to overcome the same problem anyway...How did something come from nothing? Talks like that are fun. I don't think its very fun to hear about secular degeneration, leftist schemes, and the illogic of faith, however. That's all pretty nasty stuff, and competely useless. It never changes anyone's mind, or encourages serious, deep thought.

Personally, I don't care what the schools teach. I don't even trust the school's to teach history...let alone religion. I agree religious teaching should be left to the church, and (my preference) to the family. I don't have children, but I don't really want the schools handling their religious education. That seems silly to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229043)
Inthenet is an extremist christian, and in my book is just as dangerous as an extremist muslim.

That's a nice thing to say, and it would be nice if it were true. But, because of the condition many muslims find themselves (in extreme poverty, disillusioned, and oppressed by their governments) they have been made more dangerous than American Christians...even the extreme ones. That doesn't have anything to do with the religions themselves, however--just outside conditions. The mindsets of all extremists are similar, however.

BigBuddhaPup 12-21-2006 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229061)
This would only work to prove that the existence of God and the angels is more likely. They aren't from earth so by definition, they are extra-terrestrial, right?

After watching a movie like Contact is another proof there is no God:lol:

Richard the Lionheart 12-21-2006 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBuddhaPup (Post 229062)
I wasn't tarnishing Lincoln... I was being objective about him, he did say those things in debating Douglas... my point was show it is easy to take talking points and use them however you will...in the end they are usually just fluff... Putting Lincoln in any discussion when someone is talking about discriminating against gays, and women is ridiculous... I guess the point was missed....

Not anymore. I get ya.

Jaguar Rick 12-21-2006 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky the Kid (Post 229058)
I'm not sure what your point is with this. I don't know how this applies to the argument you are all having about religion and science...Anyway, Abraham Lincoln loathed and detested slavery. He thought it was the greatest evil of his time. He fought his whole life to end it, and ultimately lost his life to the cause. Frederick Douglass thought he was one of the greatest men he'd ever known, and he and Lincoln considered each other personal friends.

He thought black people were in a state of degeneration because of the crimes committed against them by the white men who held them in bondage. This is not a ridiculous belief. Millions of people were held in complete captive, and most were forbidden to be educated. This is not a good thing to happen for a group of people, and is bound to have negative consequences. He felt that because of all the injustices they suffered, it was better to send them off so they could have their own colony after an eventual emancipation. He thought it would be natural for freed men to immediately turn around and attack their oppressors. This is a belief he held early in his life, and later came to see that he was wrong. Frederick Douglass convinced him by asking Lincoln why he would want to leave his country? Many men feared emancipated slaves would take up arms and seek vengeance against their former captives. It is a miracle of modern times, and a serious tribute to the honor of those emancipated slaves that they did not do this.

Lincoln did not parrot the sentiments of his time, but because he was a statesman, he understood those sentiments, took them seriously, and tried to use them to bring about sollutions to the problems of his day for the public good, and benefit of all. He succeeded. Go tarnish someone else--it'll be a lot easier-- if that's what you're trying to do.

Ricky, If Lincoln opposed slavery, he went against the bible, did he not. In the bible slavery is ordained.

IntheNet 12-21-2006 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229056)
The reason you are just as dangerous is because forced religion is the single more dangerous thing in the world. People forcing religion causes hate and distrust, and in turn terrorism.

Have I said one word in this entire thread about "forced religion"?

I am asking public schools not to discriminate and instead teach two theories, one being evolution and the other being creationism. You act like I am killing children!

You want forced religion? Turn your eyes toward Mecca and Medina... over there religion is required. Elsewise they kill you. Three months ago two FoxNews reporters were kidnapped in Gaza... One of the reporters relays what happened:

"We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint," Centanni told FOX News.

That is your proper focus... not Christians or common folks seeking a more expansive curricula in public schools!

:rolleyes:

Richard the Lionheart 12-21-2006 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguar Rick (Post 229067)
Ricky, If Lincoln opposed slavery, he went against the bible, did he not. In the bible slavery is ordained.

Jesus Christ man! (sorry for the blaspheme...hehe) WHO ARE YOU DEBATING??? WHO DO YOU THINK I AM? I AM NOT IN YOUR RELGIOUS WAR. READ WHAT I WRITE. WHY DOES NO ONE ELSE MAKE THE SAME TIRED MISTAKES YOU MAKE!??!?! OPEN YOUR EYES MAN!

Cure 12-21-2006 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229061)
This would only work to prove that the existence of God and the angels is more likely. They aren't from earth so by definition, they are extra-terrestrial, right?

Perhaps... but what if it's a lump of methane based life that's all gelatinous and icky? Somehow I doubt you're going to find many people claiming they're angels.

Jaguar Rick 12-21-2006 04:28 PM

[QUOTE=IntheNet;229068]Have I said one word in this entire thread about "forced religion"?

I
"We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint," Centanni told FOX News.

If I had been there, I would have Imediately converted to Islam!

CKFresh 12-21-2006 04:28 PM

It won't matter ricky. They deny all the proof we have now. The fact that the Bible is failable is unexceptable for these fanatical religious types. Seriously like I said, if the Bible said that humans have 8 eyes, they would aruge this with us.

BigBuddhaPup 12-21-2006 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricky the Kid (Post 229064)
Well, maybe scary is the wrong word. I disagree with both of you, however. I don't like religion forced down anyone's throat, and I don't like hearing people insulted for having religious beliefs. I am open to all the mysteries of life. I don't pretend to know for sure if there is a God or not, but I believe its possible. Every belief has to overcome the same problem anyway...How did something come from nothing? Talks like that are fun. I don't think its very fun to hear about secular degeneration, leftist schemes, and the illogic of faith, however. That's all pretty nasty stuff, and competely useless. It never changes anyone's mind, or encourages serious, deep thought.

Personally, I don't care what the schools teach. I don't even trust the school's to teach history...let alone religion. I agree religious teaching should be left to the church, and (my preference) to the family. I don't have children, but I don't really want the schools handling their religious education. That seems silly to me.



That's a nice thing to say, and it would be nice if it were true. But, because of the condition many muslims find themselves (in extreme poverty, disillusioned, and oppressed by their governments) they have been made more dangerous than American Christians...even the extreme ones. That doesn't have anything to do with the religions themselves, however--just outside conditions. The mindsets of all extremists are similar, however.



Maybe there has always been something... the theory of multiverses is gaining ground... we might just be one of many universes... we could be the lucky one that had the right condition out of all the many variant universes...

String theory, GUT/TOE theories are exploring these possibilities... the only problem is that quantum physics doesn't jibe with physics...

Anyway, it is fascinating to think about hypothesis'...


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