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eman484 12-21-2006 05:50 PM

Quote:

it would take the intellect of a monkey to deny evolution.
This is a quote of your's that insults people for believing in the bible. There are a lot of christians out there who don't believe in evolution.

You are just being hippicritcal in a lot of aspects in this conversation. You sya not to force views or beliefs on people while you are doing exactly that. If they don't believe in evolution then they are a moron. It isn't an extreme form of oppresion but a form nonetheless.

RavenPoe 12-21-2006 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229120)
Ravenpoe,
I have a great understanding of Christianity. I was raised Catholic and went to Church everyday until I was 14. So.... what are you talking about?

You said Muslim and Christian faiths are equally peaceful. This is the antithesis of true. The Muslim faith clearly teaches that infidels are to be treated as enemies and killed. (please don't make me dig up the passages from the Qur'an) This shows an absolute lack of understanding while simultaneously willing to lump the two and all their believers together in the same ideology.

I'm not debating the points but neither are you. You're inflaming an argument rather than debating. That makes your points look as radical as his. Use objective reasoning to debate these topics as there is plenty of it to go around.

That's all I'm saying.

CKFresh 12-21-2006 05:52 PM

Some of my posts for you:

"I never insulted anyone for having religious beliefs. I insult people for wanting to put religion in every aspect of public life. "

eman484 12-21-2006 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229126)
Please read all of the posts. I was saying that people who claim we are trying to take Christianity away are nuts, not all christians. Don't misinterpret my posts. I have repeatedly said there is nothing wrong with christianity or religion. I was specifically speaking of people who think there is a war on christianity.

OK, I can see how I misinterpereted that. I was doing more skimming on some of the posts and I saw just Christians. I understand what you are saying about religious extremists. Yes they are nuts.

chiefsfan27 12-21-2006 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229076)
That would be ok if ID or creationism were theories, they're not. They would fall under the scientific category of hypotheses. We don't teach hypotheses that have no outside substantiation. There is no agenda there outside of scientific method. That same scientific method is applied to all things that don't offend believers as well. Science, unlike theology, is consistent.

Actually it is my understanding that a theory is a hypothesis, that when tested multiple times, bares the same result. No scientists as ever recreated the evolution of a Hunam in a lab, so technically is'nt evolution still a hypothesis?

I'm saying as long as we're not teaching truth, but rather a theory or hypothesis, why not teach another theory or hypothesis?

CK, I'm not forcing my views down your throat and telling you that you're crazy for believing evolution, although you seem to feel like someone is doing this to you, but by saying I have the intelect of a mokey for not believing your way, you are doing that to me.

CKFresh 12-21-2006 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eman484 (Post 229127)
This is a quote of your's that insults people for believing in the bible. There are a lot of christians out there who don't believe in evolution.

You are just being hippicritcal in a lot of aspects in this conversation. You sya not to force views or beliefs on people while you are doing exactly that. If they don't believe in evolution then they are a moron. It isn't an extreme form of oppresion but a form nonetheless.

Eman, wrong. Plenty of Christians believe in Evolution. So how am I insulting all CHristians? Evolution is something that is scientifically proven. Ask anyone. We can see evolution occuring under a microscope. So yes, to deny evolution would take the intellect of a monkey.

CKFresh 12-21-2006 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229129)
You said Muslim and Christian faiths are equally peaceful. This is the antithesis of true. The Muslim faith clearly teaches that infidels are to be treated as enemies and killed. (please don't make me dig up the passages from the Qur'an) This shows an absolute lack of understanding while simultaneously willing to lump the two and all their believers together in the same ideology.

I'm not debating the points but neither are you. You're inflaming an argument rather than debating. That makes your points look as radical as his. Use objective reasoning to debate these topics as there is plenty of it to go around.

That's all I'm saying.

Poe, I can't be certain of this, but don't you think there are places in the Bible that call on believers to fight against non-believers? I really don't know, but I am pretty sure there are. My point was, that it is unfair to lable Muslims as violent and Christians as non-violent.

RavenPoe 12-21-2006 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eman484 (Post 229131)
OK, I can see how I misinterpereted that. I was doing more skimming on some of the posts and I saw just Christians. I understand what you are saying about religious extremists. Yes they are nuts.

They're not nuts, they're misinformed. As long as this type of insulting, inflammatory argument is presented to them, you can expect them to remained misinformed. You'll never convince anyone of anything by insulting them, especially at the core of their value system.

CKFresh 12-21-2006 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan27 (Post 229132)
Actually it is my understanding that a theory is a hypothesis that when testes multiple times bares the same result. No scientists as ever recreated the evolution of a Hunam in a lab, so technically is'nt evolution still a hypothesis?

I'm saying as long as we're not teaching truth, but rather a theory or hypothesis, why not teach another theory or hypothesis?

Chiefsfan, but EVOLUTION in general has been observed in several other living things. Therefore, the observation of other things evolving, allong with the fossils and and other data collected all put together make evolution more than just a hypothesis. There is significant scientific data to support it overwhelmingly. Can you say the same about creationism?

eman484 12-21-2006 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229133)
Eman, wrong. Plenty of Christians believe in Evolution. So how am I insulting all CHristians? Evolution is something that is scientifically proven. Ask anyone. We can see evolution occuring under a microscope. So yes, to deny evolution would take the intellect of a monkey.

Yes correct many Christians do believe in evolution but probably just as many if not more believe in creation. I just think it is wrong to accuse, someone who has enough faith to look past scientific evidence, of having the intellect of a monkey. Some people are just very religious and truley know and believe in their hearts that god made everything on this earth and everything happens for a reason. You shouldn't fault them for that and they definitly shouldn't be insulted.

RavenPoe 12-21-2006 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229134)
Poe, I can't be certain of this, but don't you think there are places in the Bible that call on believers to fight against non-believers? I really don't know, but I am pretty sure there are. My point was, that it is unfair to lable Muslims as violent and Christians as non-violent.

It depends on what you mean by "bible". There's plenty in the old testament. That would, however, be the Hebrew faith, not Christian. I defy you to find one thing that Jesus said that could be construed as it's ok to kill. He said exactly the opposite and refuted the old testament many times over.

If people actually believed what Jesus taught, Christianity would be a good thing.

CKFresh 12-21-2006 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229135)
They're not nuts, they're misinformed. As long as this type of insulting, inflammatory argument is presented to them, you can expect them to remained misinformed. You'll never convince anyone of anything by insulting them, especially at the core of their value system.

Poe, I would have to disagree. Many of these people have been informed time and time again of the facts but refuse to believe or even acknowledge the. Ignorance is one thing, but blatantly denying proven things is on a different level. I would say it is fair to call someone crazy who refuses to recognize facts.

chiefsfan27 12-21-2006 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 229136)
Chiefsfan, but EVOLUTION in general has been observed in several other living things. Therefore, the observation of other things evolving, allong with the fossils and and other data collected all put together make evolution more than just a hypothesis. There is significant scientific data to support it overwhelmingly. Can you say the same about creationism?

Yet again you assume I view scientific data as the ultimate means of obtaining proof.

Looking at other things like bacteria evolving and assuming humans did the same is like a man who had lived in a cave his entire life seeing a bird for the first time and assuming that all humans could fly as well.

eman484 12-21-2006 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenPoe (Post 229135)
They're not nuts, they're misinformed. As long as this type of insulting, inflammatory argument is presented to them, you can expect them to remained misinformed. You'll never convince anyone of anything by insulting them, especially at the core of their value system.

Misinformed, huh? Come on RavenPoe! Go tell a jewish family that survived the holocaust that the Nazi's weren't nuts they were jsut misinformed. Anybody who thinks they have the right to be violent or hurt someone over religion IS nuts and has no place in society. I feel very strongly about that.

Cure 12-21-2006 06:05 PM

If we are fighting a War on Christmas we're getting our asses kicked. Went to the mall earlier and I couldn't help but notice Christmas stuff EVERYWHERE!!

...plus, Bill O'Reilly probably isn't the best ally in the "secular culture war on christmas and the moral majority" (or whatever it's called). Remember this little ditty from '04?


A female Fox News producer fired back at the TV star today, filing a lawsuit claiming that he subjected her to repeated instances of sexual harassment and spoke often, and explicitly, to her about phone sex, vibrators, threesomes, masturbation, the loss of his virginity, and sexual fantasies


Culture Warrior Bill, ladies and gents. Give him a hand... but wash it afterword. :D


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