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buckeyefan78 01-16-2005 11:14 PM

Martin Luther King Day...
Tommorrow is Martin Luther King Jr. Day and I thought I'd post a brief reminder to take time and educate yourself on the man and his message. Personally, he is by far my favorite historical figure, and the greatest American of the 20th century. Also take note of how his message still needs to be heard, as a few southern states ( namely Virgina and South Carolina) will protest the day in their state capitals and celebrate their own recently new holiday, Confederates Day, which honors ( if you can honor scum) like Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee. Passed by state legislatures in THIS DECADE, these acts remind us of how far SOME people have yet to go in this nation.

It's also a good day to find a way to send a message to former Senator Jesse Helms from North Carolina. The racist, AIDS patient hater who said all Latinos were 'violent people' was the main opposition to the day being observed nationally. Drop the racist a line and tell him he lost...:D ...Ignorant S.O.B.

Ellis 01-16-2005 11:34 PM

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Few individuals in the 20th century have had a greater impact on our nation than Martin Luther King Jr.

We as a culture have the responsibility to see that the changes Dr. King fought for so diligently will live on for generations to come. Despite his dream to see people of all different ethnic backgrounds living together in society peacefully, and the efforts made in the past 30 years to make that dream a reality, we would all agree that the fulfillment of this dream has not been reached. This raises the obvious question of what has gone wrong?

Various reasons could be cited. But I am convinced that if we are to discover what lies at the foundation of the problem, we need to examine two key assumptions that helped form the basis of Dr. King's views on racial equality. Both of these key pillars to King's belief system were rooted in the Bible, which should come as no surprise to us considering the fact that he was a pastor first and foremost.

The first assumption is that we as human beings have been created in the image of God. All of humanity has significance and value. Since every individual human being is created in the image of God, every individual is entitled to the same dignity and respect. This is what sets us apart from the rest of creation; we were created with the specific purpose of reflecting God's character. Because every individual of every ethnic group was created in the image of God, there's no room for racism. Racism is a sin that grieves the heart of God deeply and in no way can be supported by any responsible reading of the Bible.

The second assumption which acted as a pillar of King's belief system was the idea that all of us as human beings are ultimately accountable to God for the way in which we live our lives. There are consequences for the evil things that we do in this life. Because each of us must ultimately answer to God, we should make every effort to ensure that our society reflects the justice of God himself.

These two key assumptions helped form the basis of King's understanding of racial equality. The reason King did not mention these ideas very prominently in his speeches is the fact that these two key ideas were part of our cultural belief system thirty years ago. An overwhelming majority of our culture agreed that each human being bears the image of God and is ultimately accountable to God for his or her actions. Yet people have been slow to apply these two beliefs to the issue of racial equality.

And now, in our culture, many individuals no longer believe that every individual human being is created in the image of God. The tragedy of this conclusion is if life indeed is merely the product of a Darwinian struggle for the survival of the fittest, it would logically follow that racism would be acceptable, which it is not.

I wholeheartedly share Dr. King's dream of a society of people from many different ethnic backgrounds living together joyfully in a community. Yet I do not see how this dream will ever become reality if our culture continues to deny these two key pillars of King's belief system: humanity created in the image of God, and human accountability to God. It is my hope that our culture will once again embrace these ideas and move ever closer to the fulfillment of Dr. King's dream.

Marc 01-16-2005 11:38 PM

I think people should take a moment and truly pay their respects and put things into perspective on this holiday and others like it. This is some interesting food for thought I came across today: it's writen by a friend of mine and I can see where he's coming from. Thoughts?

ESP0704 01-16-2005 11:54 PM

Great picture -- particularly with the juxtaposition of King with Gandhi.


I agree with you that, almost 36 years after King's death, we still have fallen short of realizing his dream. But there are a lot of Americans who go every day to their all-white workplace, eat with other white people at lunch, go every Sunday to their all-white churches and go home to their all-white neighborhoods (and I admit being guilty of all those), and believe that racism is solved.

Blacks have shorter lifespans (President Bush admitted as much in a town hall meeting last week), and are less likely to graduate from high school or college, than whites are. And, as you pointed out, Ellis, that's not attributable to social Darwinism.

Our continuing failure to live up to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King's dream is something worth thinking about on his day Monday.

I agree it's an abomination that some southern states still celebrate Confederate Heroes' Day (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term for people who take up arms against their own government is traitor, not hero.

Displaying a Confederate battle flag and claiming to be a patriotic American is, IMO, a little bit like owning a T-shirt that reads I (heart) Osama bin Laden and claiming to be a patriotic American.

MaddEnemy 01-17-2005 12:26 AM

Do you think white America is ignorant to MLK dream because he is black or just ignorant to his dream?

buckeyefan78 01-17-2005 01:33 AM


Traitor is a nice term for them. Considering most of the Confederate generals and political leaders were allowed to assume their positions in the halls of the United States government AFTER the Civil War, I believe the "good guys" set a pattern of not being harsh enough on the ignorant, racist, treasonous anarchists who nearly destroyed the entire nation 140 years ago. That is why Confederate Heroes' Day was created. It's why a few southern leaders are gaining momentum in trying to remove the U.S. flag from state institutions, and fly their own state flag. Notice how I left out the word 'hero' in my original post? Couldn't bare to put it in there.


Your link is an interesting one, but a little short on full examination of the man and the movement. Think about this: a man can be a full blown racist and appreciate King for the following endeavors...

1. successful use of non-violent tactics to achieve social and political goals.

2. successful use of economic boycotts by a minority group ( including the use of car pools and bike drop offs where one man would ride a bike to work and leave it for another to pick up and use during the Montgomery bus boycott of 55) to alter federal law ( segregation specifically declared illegal by S.C.).

3. drawing a direct line between poverty ( unspecified by race) and oppression to the unfairness of the Vietnam draft.

4. the ability to successfully use religious ( specifically Biblical) beliefs as well as Constitutional truths in a cohesive manner to effectively change numerous aspects of social, political, and cultural life, WITHOUT ( because no one can do it today) overriding the line between church and state. In other words, even though God guided him, the man accomplished all his change through legal, innovative means, without using religion to bully ( ahem...Bush anyone?) or divide people on sides.

There's four major points to appreciate what King did because I believe they are all true American ideals, whether they are specifically outlined in the Constitution or not. On the other hand, I doubt any racists can appreciate him anyway. I doubt they lack the intelligence to investigate the matter further.

And by the way Marc, rock n' roll is the TRUE black musicical genre. Last time I checked, the drum is an instrument native to Africa, and Robert Johnson is widely regarded as the innovator of it.

MountaineerDave 01-17-2005 01:51 AM

The author in Marc's link is an idiot. Sorry.

Anyone failing to understand that the interests of racial equality are national interests is nearly as block-headed and at least as narrow-minded as Jesse "Kill all dem damn 'Spanics" Helms.


HibachiDG 01-17-2005 02:06 AM

I think the best thing about MLK day, that the person in the article Marc posted doesn't appear to get, is that it isn't intended to be a Holiday similar to other National Holidays. Hence why it's either often, or maybe even officially, called MLK "Day of Service". The intention isn't just in a day off, but in taking that day and better serving those around you, like King did.

buckeyefan78 01-17-2005 02:13 AM

LOL...yeah Dave, that could be said. In all honesty though, I really do appreciate King just as much, IF NOT MORE SO, for his ability to initiate political change using such simple and innovative techniques. This man did more for labor than most guys that are associated with labor ever did, and we don't even get to that part most of the time. Throw out what his ultimate motives were for ( racial equality in the long run), and he can still be admired. This guy basically uprooted an entire culture ( although outsmarting Southern culture isn't a huge feat in my estimation) by himself.

Remember to add in how Helms hates those pesky people with AIDS too Dave. Nothing worse than an AIDS patient, unless he's Hispanic I guess.

Tarkus 01-17-2005 02:41 AM


Originally posted by Marc
it's writen by a friend of mine and I can see where he's coming from. Thoughts?
Personally I don't understand why the post of your friends was even written. On one hand he trivializes MLK Day as an opportunity for a 3 day weekend & goes on to point out Veterans Day as an important day worthy of being a Holiday.

To what end?? If I thought he really wanted to bring up why some other important dates aren't treated with the same reverance, I would agree certain dates should be elevated also. However I'd mention that aligning it with MLK Day muddies his point & allows some to take it as a type of competition of the 2 instead of taking Veterans Day on it's own merit.

But even taking his view like that doesn't explain his flippancy in describing that people "could catch the sales" by having Veterans Day off. Are we to take his sarcasm & delivery as just his way of communicating a valid point or that he's just being a smart ass??

His pitch is either trolling for a reaction or showing himself to be quite immature in presenting his case or that he likes to see his words in print no matter what the message.

Him admitting posting a controversial point combatting political correctness but using MLK Day as the vehicle is either trolling or just plain stupidity. If he was to bring this up to his close friends that know exactly what he means...fine. But talking to the masses where the majority doesn't know him is asking for it. He wouldn't be my choice to impart a sensitive point to a group. He's ill-equipt to handle it....

buckeyefan78 01-17-2005 10:34 PM

In my first response Tarkus, I went the route of immaturity, while Dave blasted the author on stupidity. Either way, I intended to enlighten on other merits by MLK to raise the awareness of the day.

Most people view ALL holidays off as just that: a day off. Going into a discussion on Veterans Day or Memorial Day has it's controversy too. I know little, if any, organized awareness on the lives of servicemen once their duty is over that competes with all the media does to portray heroes of war. In short, we as Americans probably do fall short in recognizing the sacrifices of fallen soldiers, however the plight and vet benefits to those still living is MUCH LESS SO talked about, it's pathetic.

Sad too, in my opinion, the best way to honor the dead would to be take care of their friends who were next to them in the foxhole. So while the media shows pictures of flowers on graves this Memorial Day, someone should spend the day in a vets hospital, where care is subpar on a sickening level.

Tarkus 01-17-2005 10:57 PM

More than well said, Buckeye.....

We as a nation have become so self absorbed & detached from history that that's exactly what the result is....a day off.

I know it's hard for some to "feel" the sacrifices of people when they never knew those things as being part of daily life as they grew up but I'm with's still no excuse.

To read that post "combatting over the top PCness" using some important dates like MLK Day, Veterans Day, etc. , just shows how far some people today are insulated from the point of Special Days.

Immature, stupid, pathetic, sad.....All appropriate & just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to descriptive words....

Richard the Lionheart 01-18-2005 03:32 PM

He didn't even know who Lafayette was! I don't think we need to break down his post, its probably comming from a perspective that isnt very informative.

Richard the Lionheart 01-18-2005 03:39 PM

But it should be clear to anyone that has an elementary understanding of the Consitution, all of our founding documents and literature, and the beliefs of the founders of this country that equality of human rights for all people is more than a national interest, its our way of life.

KevinBeane 01-19-2005 12:53 AM

Just came back from a trip to Ohio, and when I saw here a thread about Martin Luther King, started by Buckeye and last posted by Ricky, I was positive, POSITIVE, I was in for a headache.

What a pleasant surprise that I'm dead wrong. Great thread. I don't really have anything to add but I did want to give my kudos.

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