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Ellis 05-13-2011 12:44 AM

Come with me. Let's go to the place I am working at the moment...

There are a lot of workers. All of the workers get paid less then 11 dollars an hour. Many, if not most, get paid less than 9. Some, like me, are college students, who are just looking for a job to keep them busy in their free time. But others, though, are single mothers or have a family to support. (Others are immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Others are middle aged men who don't know what they are doing with themselves.)

(None of the workers are full time, as the company doesn't want to give them benefits.)

What is going to happen to the kids' whose parents work 26 hours at this job? What kind of chance do they really have? They're going to grow up in a house where the mother has to work, and when she isn't, she can barely provide more than bare neccessities for him (or her). The kid grows up in low income housing. There are a lot of drugs and domestic violence in their neighborhood. Their schools are crappy. They really don't have anywhere to turn to. They aren't exposed to books or art at home.

And the former citizen of the Soviet Union who is in his 70s and is the nicest guy you will ever meet... this guy deserves more. He's so nice... all of the customers love him. Some of the old Russian jews who are customers come and chat in Russian with him and talk about the homeland.

Ahh! People deserve so much better!

Jack Knoff 05-13-2011 01:13 AM


Originally Posted by Ellis
People deserve...

With all due respect, I think this is where you begin to go off the rails, Ellis.

People deserve...

People deserve the right to their life.
They deserve not to be damaged by another person or entity.

The founders set up our Constitution so that people were given liberty to make the life that they will for themselves.

Not everyone is dealt the same hand.

I can appreciate your compassion.
Maybe as you get a few more revoultions around the sun you will come to appreciate that the most compassionate thing is for people to have as much liberty as possible.

Or not. haha

themush 05-13-2011 03:05 AM

Ellis, life is what you make it. Whatever you put into it you will get out of it.

When my grandparents came over from Italy you think wealth and a comfortable living was handed out of the Island? Nope they sacrificed for their kids, myself, and the rest of the family.

DETMURDS 05-14-2011 10:42 AM

If it is so horrible, why do the people continue to stay employed there?

Overall, it sounds like everything in that community stinks. What makes a community? ...the people who live in it.

Ellis 05-18-2011 02:11 AM


Whatever you put into it you will get out of it.
This is the most fallacious facade of an idea I have ever heard. Some people work hard and succeed; some people work little and succeed; some people work exceptionally hard and fail. There are many single parents on wellfare who work exceptionally hard and can barely support themselves and their child(ren).


why do the people continue to stay employed there?
It's not that the job itself is horrible-- it's not like working in a steel mill or mine or meat factory. It's just that the wage is awful for people with families to support. Why stay working there? Where are else are they supposed to go get a better wage?


The founders set up our Constitution so that people were given liberty to make the life that they will for themselves
They were given the liberty to will the life that they want, not to make the life that they will for themselves. I'm no hardcore determanist, but if we could just will the life we wanted, I doubt there would be many projects or single males without model girlfriends.

-- I'm not saying that life is a zero sum game; at least not in America. But just because it isn't a zero sum game doesn't mean many people aren't left with a negative score.

themush 05-18-2011 04:09 PM

Of course there are exceptions to the rule Ellis. My point is if you just show up clock in float through the day and clock out, you're not going to get noticed and you will stay stagnant.

DETMURDS 05-18-2011 08:14 PM

I am sure an adult who delivers newspapers works hard too Ellis, but does he or she deserve a great, or at least a good wage of pay? Of course not. Just because one works hard, does not mean they are entitled to anything. Continuous hard work and progress and betterment of one's self is the key.


Tarkus 06-04-2011 08:55 AM

Welcome to a perfect blueprint of a capitalistic society, Ellis...

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