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Marc 10-22-2002 08:56 PM

BCS rankings revealed

Despite leading both polls, Miami is No. 2

Miami is No. 1 just about everywhere but where it counts most -- in the Bowl Championship Series standings.

The Hurricanes, No. 1 since the preseason in The Associated Press media and coaches' polls, were second behind Oklahoma in the first BCS standings released Monday. And look who's third -- Notre Dame!

Thanks to friendly computer ratings and a schedule rated toughest in the nation, the Fighting Irish are in position to make a run at the national championship.

The BCS standings are used to determine which teams play in a national title game. The teams that finish 1-2 in the final BCS standings on Dec. 8 will play for the title in Tempe, Ariz., at the Fiesta Bowl on Jan. 3.
Does it make any sense for the 'Canes to be No. 2? It was surprised to see this considering I can't remember their last loss.

#47 10-22-2002 09:02 PM

There last lost Marc was to Washington. They have since won 28 in a row, an counting. It will never be right Marc until they get a playoff system in place that has no imput from the polls.

Marc 10-22-2002 09:07 PM

Amen. But we have to live and work with the system that is in place now.

I OWN THIS 10-23-2002 09:51 AM

Well, the reason Okalahoma is ranked above Miami is because their strength of schedule has been tougher up until this least that is what the BCS system would tell you! After Miami plays Va Tech and Tennessee, they could possibly jump Oklahoma and probably will!


Richard the Lionheart 10-23-2002 04:26 PM

Without the polls how do you decide who goes in the playoff? That makes zero sense.

I think the top four teams in the BCS should play in a playoff. NO more than four though. The best part of College Football is cruciallity(no even sure if thats a word) of every regular season game.

#47 10-23-2002 06:27 PM

You saying that Ricky, means you have NO idea how these polls are formulated.

The coaches poll is NOT done by the coaches. It is done by the schools SID's. The SID's are instructed to vote in a certain manner, not by who they think are the best teams. This manner goes like this. First they are told to vote for conference teams(for the obvious reasons, have to make your league look good). Then they are told to vote for opponents on there schedule(dont forget part of the SOS is where you fall in the polls). They are then told to vote regionally(because the majority of your conference opponents in effect play a couple of non league regional games) and then they look at the national scope last.

The AP poll may be even better. We have a bunch of people who never have played the game deciding who the best teams are. That is a joke in itself, but it gets better. They are first and foremost(like you and I) humans with biases and favorites and conference alumnis also, they will vote with there hearts. Then we have the distribution of where the voting is coming from. Its not like we have 6 different sects doing the voting, to honor the 6 different BCS leagues. If you havent noticed, 4 of the 6 BCS conferences basically inhabit one time zone. Guess where the majority of the voters are from???? That same area. The AP poll is loaded with voters on the east of the Mississippi. The majority of these voters will not see but one Pac 10 game the entire season. How can someone who never watches teams play actually vote for them? Most of the voters will attend a game, there fore they are not even at home, like us, watching several games being played. So if you dont watch games, how can you possibly vote for who the best teams are? You cant.

This system is the biggest crock going and the remnants of it(the BCS and its failures) have been shown over and over again. The biggest flaw in it all, is it reliance on polls and people voting with a bias to decide who gets to play in these games.

One other problem in all of this is COMPUTERS. I have yet to see a computer be able to factor in the human element. No computer yet has been hit by a 255 lb LB who runs a 4.4, that will change the way it operates. A computer cant factor in how an individual handles tight situations, crowd disturbance and a corner blitz. Humans play the game, not computers, humans should decide the game on the field without bias polls and computer read outs.

But I would like to see a computer tackle Onterrio Smith, that would be an interesting matchup.

This what makes NO sense.

LedgerSko 10-23-2002 10:41 PM

Well its the first one. Lets play a few more games before we get too crazy.

I OWN THIS 10-24-2002 10:40 AM

Waiting a few more games will only complicate the problem. There is going to be major drama coming up in the next few weeks, as the BCS winds down and decides who will be playing where! I am preparing myself for another crooked fixup for the National Championship Game!


Marc 10-24-2002 05:05 PM


Originally posted by #47
We have a bunch of people who never have played the game deciding who the best teams are.
I don't think you have to have played the game to be considered knowledgeable at it. Look at many coaches who were football geniuses, do you think Lombardi and, say, Madden, are not knowledgeable because they weren't players? Sorry if I misinterpreted you, but I felt you might be biased about it because you play. I just don't feel playing experience is an ingredient that is necessary to say someone knows the sport or not. It certainly doesn't hurt, though.

#47 10-24-2002 05:38 PM

Well said Marc, but my bigger point is that we have a championship decided by people who are not playing the game, rather then by the people playing the game.

It should be decided solely by the players, not by a poll of public opinion and certainly not by computers, whose imput is again fed into computers by humans not playing the games(humans who do have there allegiances and biases just like the other polls).

There is no perfect solution, just like the NCAA basketball tourney is not perfect and just like the DIV 1AA and DIV 2 an 3 playoffs arent perfect. BUT they do allow the players to decide who is deserving of eventually playing for the title. And if it can be done in every other sport at all levels, it surely can be done in this day and age at the DIV 1A level.

What I want is fairness or the closest possible thing to that. What we have now is a system that is no better then the fans voting for the baseball all star game. Were not getting the most deserving, where getting what certain people want to see. It should be the best getting to play.

Richard the Lionheart 10-24-2002 05:45 PM

You saying that means YOU have no idea what I'm talking about! :)

I wasn't debating polls vs. playoff system. I was asking you how you would determine who gets in the playoff system. There are more than one hundred teams in division one football. Should we have a nine month playoff format???

#47 10-25-2002 09:15 PM

Do they have a 9 month playoff in D-1AA? The answer is no. They play a 11 game regular season schedule, followed by a 16 team playoff. 2 teams in the country end up playing 15 games. That is not that big of a difference then we have now, yet they end up having a much truer National that earns it by playing and winning 4 playoff games.

If we were to actually have a 16 team playoff, I wouldnt complain near as much about the ludicrous polls we have now. Even the idiots who are doing the voting in the polls, would at least get all the truly deserving teams into a 16 team playoff and have a few teams a touch below the top ones. But none of the deserving teams get left out............this is the most important part of it.

A 16 team playoff requires 15 total games. There are presently 28 bowl games. We can use 15 bowl games, so as to still appease the old boy network and sponsors and rotate the championship game yearly between the 4 present BCS bowls, as they are doing now. The remaning 13 bowls can still invite teams, as they do now, to play in there meaningless bowl games, because that what they truly are right now....meaningless. They are a reason for alumni to get together and party and sponsors to make a buck. With the present 28 bowl games, it makes for 56 of the 117 teams to get bowl bids. There is nobody that can argue this is kind of rediculous. With this new set up, 16 teams in the playoff and 26 in the 13 other bowl games, we have 42 teams playing in a bowl or playoff bowl games.

On top of this. We now have 15 truly meaningful bowl games(as part of the playoff system) as opposed to the ONE we have now. An example:
1st round bowl games:
Holiday Bowl
Alamo Bowl
Silicon Valley Bowl
Sun Bowl
Liberty Bowl
Peach Bowl
Gator Bowl Bowl

Quarterfinal Bowl games:
Cotton Bowl
Citrus Bowl
Outback Bowl
Sugar bowl(which would be in the rotation with the other 4 present 4 BCS bowl games)

Semi Final Bowls:
Rose Bowl
Orange Bowl

Championship game:
Fiesta Bowl

Now everyone of those bowl games has now become MORE important then it was before the playoff system. The money generated would be incredible for all the bowls and old guard behind the scenes. The SUN bowl would sell out in a heart beat if it meant something, presently, hardly anyone attends. Many of the bowls have this problem. Problem solved with meaningful games. The Holiday Bowl has had 2 straight incredible games and neither one of them has come close to selling out. It would now. TV revenue would quadruple with the amount of people that would now watch the Peach Bowl.

As fans you cant tell me this wouldnt be more exciting to both talk about and watch. We would have 15 games to argue over with importance attached to them. Presently we have one, that often doesnt even have the best two teams playing in it.

We have now kept all the bowl games intact. Still have gotten 42 of the 58 teams into bowls(we really dont need anymore then that). I could easily point out 16 teams that had no business going to a bowl game a year ago, including my beloved SC. We only have 2 teams that will play 15 games(not unreasonable), 2 more that would play 14 games and 4 more that would end up playing 13 games, which really is no different then now.

But we would get the most difinitive champion we have ever had in D-1A football.

Another example of how it would make things a little more fair to everyone. I'll use this years USC team and Texas. Texas has a very good chance to go to a BCS game. But if they had played the same non league slate as USC would they? What if USC had played Texas non league slate? USC would have easily won those 4 games that Texas had scheduled, but Texas would have struggled to beat the 4 non league games that SC scheduled. But because Texas scheduled cupcakes an won and SC schedule tough but lost one of those games, they will be left out for sure. but with a 16 team playoff, they wouldnt be.

Shock1011 10-27-2002 12:53 AM

I think its fine that Miami was ranked 2..I think the poll was pretty good. But it is way to early to decide who is going t what bowl..I mean right now there is 8 undefeated teams.

Richard the Lionheart 10-27-2002 01:41 PM

Miami is proving they aren't the best team in the country right now. Oklahoma is clearly outperforming them. Look out for Virginia Tech Miami fans!

4 team playoff would be best.

#47 10-27-2002 02:18 PM

4 team playoff would be no better then the system we have now. As we can see by the games played every weekend there are more then 4 teams out there on equal footing. 4 teams still leaves too much power in the polls and the pollsters. Thats what needs to be limited the most.

More players on the field should have a say and less pollster power is the most fair solution.

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