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Classof11buckI 12-02-2003 09:50 PM

Best conference.
Okay I want to hear you opinions on the strongest conference in college football. Even thought I am a buckeye fan Im not playing favoritism I belive the big ten is the strongest conference in College football. Followed by the SEC. I find the big 12 to be the overratted ones besides Oklahoma.

h0kies4life87 12-02-2003 10:22 PM

1. SEC
2. Big-12
3. Big-10
4. ACC
5. Big East
6. Pac-10

jus the major Confrences..But next year..when VT, Miami, and BC join the acc..theyll probably be number 1.

Richard the Lionheart 12-02-2003 11:15 PM

Big Ten
Big 12
Big East
Pac 10

Brad O. 12-03-2003 08:07 AM

It's really tight between the Big 12 and SEC at the top. This year the Big 10 is third. I'll say Big 12, SEC, Big 10 -- in that order.

I OWN THIS 12-03-2003 11:43 AM

I actually think the Big 12 is soft this season compared to all the accolades they get as a top conference. If anything I think it is very very close between the SEC and the Big 10 for the honors of top conference in college football.

The SEC has 3 top 10 teams, and 5 in the top 17, which gives them the slight edge over the Big 10.

The Big 12's 2nd best team, Texas, lost to the SEC's 6th or 7th best team in Arkanslaw at home. Oklahoma had it's toughest game vs. an SEC opponent, and an SEC opponent that is ranked 9th in their conference. The Big 12 does get some props for Texas Tech beating Ole Miss early in the season 49-45 in Oxford.

Besides Oklahoma and Nebraska, for most of the season, there was not much defense played in the Big 12. I think Oklahoma has had an easy way to the National title game, not saying they would not have made it if they were in the Big 10 or SEC, but I think they would have been tested more in either of those 2 conferences.


MountaineerDave 12-03-2003 04:18 PM

It's this the question that the bowls are supposed to answer? Last year's ESPN Bowl Champion Challenge or whatever it was called was a narrow contest, if memory serves, between the Big 10 and the Big East, with the Big 10 winning in double overtime.


MountaineerDave 12-03-2003 04:56 PM

Sometimes, it's difficult to understand why I hate my job so much. I have the time and opportunity to go find almost all the sports numbers a person could ever need.

This matrix is a little hard to read at first , but it gives a pretty good picture right off the bat. I'll have the time later to remove the div1-aa wins & losses and post a div1-a only effort, but should probably do something work-related for a bit.

Analyze at will.

The first thing that popped out at me was how many div1-aa games the MAC played. 17. Unforgivable, especially if they ever expect to be taken seriously. Even the Sun Belt only played 8 div1-aa games (of course, they lost five, so... can we kick out the Sun Belt, please, Kevin?)


Alex 12-03-2003 05:25 PM

Take North Texas from the Sun Belt and send the rest to 1-AA. That league is SAD. If that league continues to compete at the level they do North Texas will be a forever participant in the New Orleans Bowl. No one else except for Middle Tennessee State 2 years ago has put up a fight. In 2001 (I believe that's when it was) North Texas went to the New Orleans Bowl 5-6. How pathetic is that?

1. SEC
2. Big Ten
3. Big 12
4. Pac-10
5. Big East
6. ACC

Even the bad teams in the SEC put up a fight in games against good non-conference opponents. The only duds in the league are Mississippi State and Vanderbilt.

I OWN THIS 12-03-2003 06:27 PM

Even Mississippi State beat bowl bound Memphis. I am about to leave work, but I will get back to this thread tommorrow.


Classof11buckI 12-03-2003 08:53 PM

The big XII is overratted.

Noon 12-03-2003 09:21 PM

The Big 10 sucks.

the thrusting banana does not need to back up his statements. He just makes them to provoke outbursts.

Bama_AL 12-04-2003 01:00 PM

I think that the SEC is the best conference. And I dont think that the results from the bowl games is a very accurate way to determine who the best conference is. Just look at some of the matchups. Conference X's #3 team vs. Conference Y's #2 team. Conference X's #6/7 team vs. Conference Y's #5 team. I dont think that needs any explaining. You can see thats not a very accurate way. When you have matchups like #1 vs. #1, #2 vs. #2, and so on, you can tell who the better conference is.

NickHammy 12-04-2003 04:25 PM

However it can tell you even more when the #3 in on confrence beats the #2 from the other confrence of the #6/7 beats the #5.

Aristides 12-04-2003 11:04 PM

#1 and #2 I'll let the bowls decide between the Big 10 and SEC. Both had very solid years unlike some others...

#3- Big 12
#4- Big East
#5- ACC
#6- PAC-10

MountaineerDave 12-04-2003 11:23 PM

That's *****in' ridiculous. The ACC is a one and a half team pony, and you claim they're better than the Pac 10.

And no, I won't change my tone on the matter if my 'Eers get pounded again by that half-pony, either.


Bama_AL 12-05-2003 01:05 AM

Thats true Nick, BUT...when the #2 team beats the #3 team, that doesnt necessarily mean that the #2 team's conference is better. And thats how some idiots look at it.

Aristides 12-05-2003 10:18 PM

Ohhh Dave, did I strike a nerve? I'm sooooooooooooooo sorry.

NCState, Maryland, Virginia, and yes even CLEMSON would give the PAC 10 #2 team, which is WSU in case you havent checked in a while, a run for their money.

PAC 10 after the top 2 has......California, Oregon and Oregon State.

Give me the top 5 of the ACC over that of the PAC 10 ANY DAY!!!!!!!!!

NickHammy 12-06-2003 12:33 AM

Give me the top 5 in the MAC and you could give the pac 10 a run for its money. Miami (OH) looks like they could play with anyone right now. I'd be terrified if my Buckeyes had to play them.

Richard the Lionheart 12-07-2003 01:40 AM

Hmmmm, I'm gonna have to change my vote after seeing tonights games. Clearly the Big 12 is the best conference this year. I mean, the best team to ever play college football is only the second best team in the Big 12, so you know the conference is strong...

MountaineerDave 12-07-2003 11:40 AM

Won't argue the Miami OH point, Nick. BGSU might give some Pac10 teams trouble, but I have little faith in Marshall, Toledo, and NIU against Oregon, Oregon St, and Cal.

Ari, I'm sorry, but you are so DEAD WRONG about the ACC that it's pathetic. Next year, different story (sort of). But this year, SC would beat every team in the ACC by 17 or more (mostly more), imo.

I did some calculations on Friday night but haven't had the opportunity to post them yet.

Sneak peek: Big 12 HUGELY overrated, in case you couldn't guess.


Aristides 12-07-2003 02:30 PM

Just because the PAC 10 has one great team doesn't mean you can throw a entire conference over another. WSU has done nothing at all to impress me and as for the rest of the PAC, well...........

NickHammy 12-07-2003 03:18 PM

Dave, I think the MAC would give the PAC 10 a little more trouble than you expect. BGSU beat Purdue earlier this year and stayed close with Ohio State both of those games being away. NIU beat 3 BCS schools (Maryland, Iowa State, Alabama). Toledo had a huge win over Pittsburgh, and of course Marshall beat Kansas State away.

Richard the Lionheart 12-07-2003 11:02 PM

Miami OH is a top ten school at least, they might even be better.

MountaineerDave 12-09-2003 03:11 PM

Miami OH might be a top ten team, but to be completely honest, even if it was season's start, I hold their having been handed their lunch by Iowa against them.

It would be interesting to see them play a major BCS team in a bowl game, though.


MountaineerDave 12-09-2003 04:26 PM

I will be posting those numbers of which I spoke earlier, and we can fold that into a BCS debate, if deemed necessary.


MountaineerDave 12-09-2003 10:01 PM

Okay. So, I take this "best conference" question seriously, having believed growing up that there was no football in the college universe that was better than eastern independents, which included Pitt, West Virginia, and Penn State. Add to that the Flutie-induced Boston College miracle, and well, anyway... along came the Big 10 flouting Sesame Street by calling 11 teams 10 and the miserable Big East...

Anyway, I've always felt the teams of the Big 12 and the SEC were overrated. Like it was in my blood, or something. I'm usually wrong about the SEC, but not the Big 12. Still, putting together some of these numbers proposed things about the Big12's weakness that the media (and coaches, for that matter) seem to miss, while smacking around Big East and to a lesser extent Pac 10 teams for committing the same sins. Here we go.

I only provide numbers on the Big Six (or Big Five plus one, if you prefer to prep for next year). It's reasonable, I think, to leave the indies and the Other Five out of the discussion.

These numbers come right off of that matrix I linked earlier.
Conference non-conference record non-conference win%
ACC 22-14 61
Big 10 30-14 68
Big 12 37-12 76
Big East 24-15 62
Pac 10 25-15 63
SEC 32-17 65

That's all non-conference games. Let's throw out Division 1-AA records against, shall we...

ACC 18-14 56
Big 10 28-14 67
Big 12 30-12 72
Big East 23-14 62
Pac 10 23-15 61
SEC 27-17 61

Nothing earth-shattering here. Yes, the Big East lost a game to division 1-aa. Temple lost to Villanova. Where is 'Nova now? Not sure, but not in 1-AA semis...

So, off the bat, the ACC looks as weak as I always imagined, barely getting over .500 in non-conference competition. The Big 12 retains its spot as tops against opponents from other conferences. I have to say, I was a little annoyed by the B12 remaining over 70% winning, so I decided to look at the following:

BCS conferences v the other BCS conferences.
Conf Record v BCS Win %
ACC 9-11 45
Big 10 12-8 60
Big 12 7-8 47
Big East 6-7 46
Pac 10 8-7 53
SEC 8-9 47

Two things pop out at me right away: Only the Big 10 and Pac 10 are over .500 against other BCS opponents. That's one. The other is that only the ACC and Big 10 seem to significantly schedule against the other BCS conferences. Both conferences lodge 20 other-BCS opponents in their non-conference schedules. Kudos to the ACC and the Big 10 in that regard. SEC came in second with 17, and the Big East has a pathetic 13 games within the BCS. Given the weakness of the conference, that's just shameful.

I took note of the Big 12's 7-8 against the BCS, and then it dawned on me: the Big 12 had the most non-conference matchups, but was middle of the pack in scheduling other BCS teams.

So, who scheduled the most ambitiously among the BCS conferences? More to the point, who is hiding behind a weak non-conference schedule (assuming, mostly correctly, that scheduling against another BCS conference is better than non-BCS scheduling)?

Percent of all non-conference games played v other BCS conferences:
ACC 63
Big 10 48
Big 12 36
Big East 35
Pac 10 39
SEC 39

Wow. The ACC worked the hardest to overcome having a generally weak conference, by scheduling other BCS conferences for nearly two-thirds of their non-conference schedule. (I'm still not a fan, but I respect the gesture all the same. I've a sneaking suspicion this will change next season.)

The Big 10 is the only conference that comes close, with the others sub-40%.

So, looking particularly at the Big 12 again, I started rolling some numbers around in my head... they won 30 non-conference games... only seven of those wins came against other BCS opponents. That's less than one quarter of their wins!!!

Percent of nonconference wins that came against other BCS opponents:
ACC 50
Big 10 43
Big 12 23
Big East 26
Pac 10 35
SEC 30

That Big 12 amazes me, because the conference opened the season with national title contender, and no fewer than four teams in the top 15. The Big 12 puffed up its record by beating Mountain West, WAC and Sun Belt teams. In fact, of the thirty nonconference non-div1-aa wins the Big 12 logged, 17 came against these three conferences. That's just pathetic. And this while logging more division 1-aa opponents than any of the other major conferences. (Tying for #2 with the WAC overall, but the MAC faced 15 division1-aa opponents, outdistancing the Big 12 and WAC significantly.)

So, you tell me.

The numbers bear the fruit that Big 10 disciples want to sell, in my mind, by beating everybody they face. One would like to see them dump some of the MAC showdowns (ten), but how else is the MAC going to gain notoriety, but winning against Big 10 teams (only twice)?

Meanwhile, the ACC and SEC split their head-ons at four a piece.
The Big East, meanwhile, still sucks, and heading into the bowl season, trails the ACC in head-to-heads 3-2. However, by some fluke of the bowl system, the Big East will be afforded three opportunities to take the entire season. (Pitt v UVA, Miami v FSU, and WVU v MD, of course). I'm actually rooting for an even split (want Pitt and WVU to win, Miami to lose...)


Noon 12-09-2003 11:02 PM

Dave, you need a girlfriend.


MountaineerDave 12-09-2003 11:50 PM

I work evenings, Noon. I work a job that allows me too much free time, but one that blocks porn, so all I've got is sports... :uhoh:

Meanwhile, I'm happily married and have a two year-old daughter, so...


Richard the Lionheart 12-10-2003 11:14 PM

Michigan also lost to Iowa.

El Jefe 12-11-2003 07:25 AM

It is always difficult to rank a conference, but if I had to go simply on what I'd lean on yearly, from top-to-bottom in each conference:

Big 10
Big 12
Big East.

After this year...

Big 10
Big 12
Big East

Marc 12-13-2003 03:42 PM

C'mon, Jefe, give the SEC more credit than that. The SEC has five teams in the top-25 whereas the Pac-10 has two. LSU, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and Mississippi are all good teams, and other teams like Arkansas and Aurburn have been in the rankings this year.

El Jefe 12-15-2003 08:02 PM

^^^Just because they are ranked doesn't mean they're a whole lot better than the conferences I mentioned above. For this year, I'd probably rank the SEC higher, but from a year-to-year basis, that's what I look at.

I just look at the SEC's non-conference schedule. Outside of UT and UF, you must admit it's a bit weak. When your league champion is playing cupcakes outside the league, what does that say about the league?

I would say I do rank the Pac-10 higher than most....if just for some kind of shock value. On a yearly basis I'd have to say I don't think the Pac-10 gets nearly as much love in the rankings than other major conferences, and they certainly don't start the season that way. Usually it's an upset in the non-conference schedule that bolts a couple Pac-10 teams up, and then losses in the league that pushes them down. It just reflects the balance in the league.

Here...for 2003:

Big 10
Big 12
Big East

sushi 01-06-2004 07:55 PM


Originally posted by Aristides
Just because the PAC 10 has one great team doesn't mean you can throw a entire conference over another. WSU has done nothing at all to impress me and as for the rest of the PAC, well...........
WSU doesn't impress you? I'm guessing you didn't watch the holiday bowl.

MountaineerDave 01-06-2004 09:09 PM


Originally posted by sushi
WSU doesn't impress you? I'm guessing you didn't watch the holiday bowl.
Or the Rose Bowl. Or the Insight Bowl. Or two other bowls that Pac 10 teams won. And don't forget the Sun Bowl, where inept defense allowed Minnesota back into a game they generally shouldn't have won...

Washington State is a rare school who I think improved when their coach went off for more naked pastures. They played tougher, meaner football than any Price-led team I've ever seen. Still, didn't get by the Huskies, so that problem still exists in Pullman.


sushi 01-07-2004 02:39 AM

They were expected to be last in the pac-10 with the loss of their head coach, marcus trufant, and QB. Instead they came close to winning the pac-10 title (if only they could beat the huskies).

buckeyefan78 01-07-2004 08:14 PM


Washington State beating Texas means nothing. Two cowards playing each other isn't something to boast about really. Didn't these two lay down for USC and Oklahoma, the Sooners, who themselves shouldn't look in the mirror til August?

The SEC had a good bowl run, I'll give them that ( worms around in his chair).

Look at my Big Ten...

NW loses to BGSU by 4. Kind of tough loss for us. Still, the MAC gets no credit, so I don't think it's THAT bad.

Michigan loses to USC. Another tough one. I had UM dominating in my pick.

Purdue fights down to the wire with Georgia. Could have gone either way.

Iowa beats Florida, not even close.

MSU loses to Nebraska, and gets dominated. Tough one there. Credit Pellini, hopefully OSU's 2004 D coordinator ( something to hang your hat on).

Ohio State beats K State. I know, Roberson was entrapped !!! Never an ounce of credit for my Buckeyes. I'm used to it.

Minnesota in a wild one over Oregon. Good game, not much else to say but a win for us.

Wisconsin gets beat by Auburn. Alvarez's bowl record is like 7-1 going into the game, and he loses. These guys are determined to beat OSU every year ( or atleast stir the pot) and then look terrible the rest of the year just to spite me I think.

KevinBeane 01-07-2004 08:18 PM

Ah, welcome back 78!

For the record, I think WSU's win over Texas mean more than nothing.

Classof11buckI 01-07-2004 09:48 PM

I don't care about the rest as long as OSU won. Ohio State dominated that game in every aspect, if you seen it we had K-State rocked. Tressel likes to sit on the football. We could have scored atleast 2 more times.

Gohawks 01-25-2004 02:16 PM

osu k-state game,Best Conference
It was a good game,but the officals cheated K-State out of valuable time at the end of the game.But anyway good win for the Buckeyes and it wasnt because of the charges against Roberson. As far as the best conference its the BIG TEN.I mean look at the top three finishers.Four teams going to Janurary bowl games.

2.Ohio State

Bucknut 02-01-2004 01:55 PM

The Big usual.

Three Big Ten teams finished in the top other conference can say that.

1. Big Ten
2. SEC
3. ACC
4. Big XII
5. Big East

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