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CKFresh 09-04-2008 12:25 PM

The GOP vs. The Truth
 
Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/...cvn_fact_check

Surprise surprise... Fear and smear, the GOP way.

Too bad facts don't matter to most voters...

catman 09-04-2008 01:38 PM

The obligatory condescending statement from the left was expected.

catman 09-04-2008 01:43 PM

Raising taxes on small businesses will stiffle the growth and stop job creation. Obama is against creating more jobs. Is that what you are saying here, Fresh? If so, why in the world would anyone be interested in voting for that man?
Here is your quote:
"THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise."

HibachiDG 09-04-2008 01:50 PM

During the speech last night I got all kinds of texts from Republican friends loving the speech, I responded to one saying "yea, good speech, hopefully she doesn't go for the bridge to nowhere line again"...right as I sent it, she started in with the bridge to nowhere thing. Really surprised she pulled that out again after having it shot down after Friday's performance.

Despite what the McCain campaign is saying, the media has not been too hard on her. Yes, the baby stuff has been the focus which is why it seems that way. But, the media needs to get into less of the baby/personal stuff and more into this other stuff. No one is beating her up on the earmarks, especially not as much as they take Obama to task. Obama's been ripped for the Change tagline thing, and rightfully so in my mind, so turnabout on the idea of Palin as a reformer and against these earmarks is going to be fairplay.

But, apparently we found out that on page 23 of the Maverick playbook it reads "go to play 1 of the Karl Rove playbook". This is the type of stuff they've done for 8 years now. McCain knows it first hand from when he lost to Bush in South Carolina in 2000.

They did a great job last night talking about the economy and when they did it was lines like Romney's forceful Reagan was right type rhetoric or Palin's "hey they're going to raise your taxes!"

If you call them on these facts...like CNNs Campbell Brown did about the Alaskan National Guard with Tucker Bounds...they throw a fit, say the media is being unfair and pull people from doing interviews with Larry King. Look at what they did with the media, they that hadn't been picked up on before the McCain press release. It was ridiculous.

And...It was GREAT in painting Palin as an underdog and the speech played great for that. Great applause, and lots of attacks to feed that applause.

It was very divisive, too. You can see it with the Country First signs/chant, the USA chant. Contrasted to the Democratic message last week which was more "We want to be the party you give a chance to fix this."

Not a lot annoys me about what the Republicans do once you realize the gaming that they do. Which is impressive, certainly, and Obama seems to be trying some of it this campaign. The one thing they did that annoyed me was when they attacked the community organizer stuff that Obama did as if THAT should be part of the attack on his lack of experience. He was 23-25 years old working with programs to help people get job training and tutoring for college, really, THAT'S the thing we should attack? But, because people don't stop to think "well, he was 23-25, it was before his career and he actually did some laudable things..."

HibachiDG 09-04-2008 01:53 PM

Quote:

Raising taxes on small businesses will stiffle the growth and stop job creation. Obama is against creating more jobs. Is that what you are saying here, Fresh? If so, why in the world would anyone be interested in voting for that man?
Here is your quote:
Republicans aren't exactly darlings to small business, though.

To pull just that line about raising taxes for small businesses and say that is the end all be all to small business production misses the issue. If the Republicans create a system that taxes small business less, but gives less chance for small business to succeed and Obama wants to tax small business at a reasonable level, but create a system where small business is going to grow, expand and more people will have a chance to be successful, then in the long run, I think that benefits small businesses the most.

The whole survival of the fittest notion that Republicans toss out there for small businesses hasn't worked and I think it's a hard sell that it will work. Even if they tax small business less.

buckeyefan78 09-04-2008 07:39 PM

I thought it was hysterical she wouldn't even mention Obama by name. Kinda like if you said his name 3 times...

http://www.dnevkino.ru/films-foto/films-beetlejuice.jpg

Tarkus 09-04-2008 08:18 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

themush 09-04-2008 10:26 PM

All of those whom spoke on the behalf of the GOP kicked ass. Just admit it, y'all got schooled. Period.

HibachiDG 09-04-2008 10:34 PM

I don't think Romney did much schooling, but I thought Huckabee was solid, Meg Whitman better than expected, the HP woman probably about average and Palin gave a great speech. I don't have any problem admitting that it was a great night for the GOP. Rudy gives a good speech. I thought Tuesday night was solid as well. Tonight hasn't been too spectacular, though, but I've mainly been watching the football game.

The only thing that irritated me on a personal level rather than just disagreement over politics, but still respecting the others, was the stuff where they attacked Obama's community organizer work.

catman 09-05-2008 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HibachiDG (Post 285659)
Republicans aren't exactly darlings to small business, though.

To pull just that line about raising taxes for small businesses and say that is the end all be all to small business production misses the issue. If the Republicans create a system that taxes small business less, but gives less chance for small business to succeed and Obama wants to tax small business at a reasonable level, but create a system where small business is going to grow, expand and more people will have a chance to be successful, then in the long run, I think that benefits small businesses the most.

The whole survival of the fittest notion that Republicans toss out there for small businesses hasn't worked and I think it's a hard sell that it will work. Even if they tax small business less.

Doug, I am not voting for McCain this fall. I have decided to vote for Alan Keyes, as I feel he is the only genuine person in the race.

CKFresh 09-05-2008 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themush (Post 285695)
All of those whom spoke on the behalf of the GOP kicked ass. Just admit it, y'all got schooled. Period.

:lol::lol::lol:

I guess you hear what you want to hear. :thumbup:

Montrovant 09-05-2008 12:13 PM

I'm going to start hanging out with buck and tark (digitally speaking :lol:) soon. Party loyalty seems more and more foolish to me as time goes by, yet I see so much of it.

Cheers at catman for voting outside the mainstream! I doubt it will really accomplish anything, but one can hope :thumbsup2:

CKFresh 09-05-2008 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrovant (Post 285711)
I'm going to start hanging out with buck and tark (digitally speaking :lol:) soon. Party loyalty seems more and more foolish to me as time goes by, yet I see so much of it.

Cheers at catman for voting outside the mainstream! I doubt it will really accomplish anything, but one can hope :thumbsup2:

Blind party loyalty is silly.

But when modern history clearly shows one party to be significantly better for the American people than the other party, it's not loyalty, it's just common sense.

buckeyefan78 09-05-2008 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 285710)
I guess you hear what you want to hear.

Did lightning strike you when you typed this? :P

Steady CK...steady...;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 285713)
Blind party loyalty is silly.

But when modern history clearly shows one party to be significantly better for the American people than the other party, it's not loyalty, it's just common sense.

Since the collapse of the mills 3 decades ago Youngstown’s mayor has been a Democrat EVERY SINGLE YEAR until 2006 (indep but split from the Dems). Not to mention the stranglehold of Democratic reps in the House of Reps during this timeframe (EVERY SINGLE YEAR). With full representation of Dems on the local and state level (not too mention the 11 years of Democratic presidents in this timeframe…which btw…the collapse came under Carter’s watch) one would think, under CK’s assertion, the city would have recovered by now.

And with that I give you Forbes magazine rankings of America’s fastest dying cities on their website this week with Youngstown coming in at #2. They took population loss, unemployment rates and economic growth (or lack of I should say) in comprising this list.

http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/08/0...0805dying.html

Yeah, they’ve done a helluva job pickin’ up the pieces here.

:rolleyes:

I suspect the rest of the cities on the list have been strangled by Dems over the last 30 years as well (on the local and state level). Actually, I know they have…perhaps not to the extent of Youngstown…but some very close.

I wonder if this is a modern example of one party being significantly better for folks.

:confused:

Or maybe it's an example of blindly following the lesser of two evils that allows your devil off the hook when it comes to accountability.

:confused:

Or do we have to exclude these facts because ni##ers, spics and poor white trash don’t count as the “American people”…

:confused:

You'll have to forgive my confusion...I get so mixed up when cross - referencing my life experience/what I've known with what makes it on teleprompters at party conventions.

;)

Tarkus 09-05-2008 04:46 PM

Damn, that's depressing...

&, once again, another set of issues that ultimately fall on big government, no matter what party tho by description in this case, using the 'degree of accountability' :rolleyes:, if one chooses to use that formula, the Dems should avoid 'answering the phone' to be asked about these examples...


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