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Packers3045 12-03-2003 10:27 PM

Pats vs Colts in Week 13
who do you think was the key to the pats win last sunday against the colts and why??

MountaineerDave 12-03-2003 10:59 PM

Tough call. BJ and McGinest are the two who I'd split my vote on.

Why? Simple enough for both.
BJ ran back a touchdown to end the first half and extend a lead that had just shortened to 7 back to 14. Also, BJ ran back the kickoff that followed the tying touchdown to the Indy 35, and provided a short field for Brady to retake the lead.

McGinest had a fine game, and is in the middle of a fine season. Two things give him consideration. One is the poll's noted stop. What the poll overlooks is his "injury" that stopped the clock with a minute remaining and allowed the defense to catch its breath and gameplan its final few plays.

We don't know that McGinest was faking an injury, but I think one thing has been really overlooked by the folks who joke about it being fake: both he and Ty Law, each veterans, each having been Belichick players for most of their careers, came up lame after the same play. Only McGinest, who was closer to the Pats sideline, warranted the attention of the staff. Law started to limp in the direction of the sideline until he saw McGinest hobbled and collapse... suddenly, Law's limp was fine, and he played the final few plays.

I'm going to give my vote to BJ, though, because if McGinest didn't get James, Washington did. James had no chance up the gut...


I OWN THIS 12-04-2003 12:02 PM

I voted Bethel Johnson, but I do have a question about this game. Why does Mike Vrabel #50 get away with taking his helmet off and running down the field after that goaline stand against the Colts? There was still time on the clock as well, for the game was not offically over. Does anyone remember Dwayne Rudd getting penalized for virtually the same thing last season? I even saw Phillip Buchannon get penalized after taking his helmet off after a punt return out of bounds in the back of the endzone this season. Looks like that Pats got away with one there, not like they have not in the past as well with other calls.


Packers3045 12-04-2003 01:27 PM

Joey -

I think they said they should have called a penalty but it wouldn't have mattered anyway since they would give the ball back to the pats and they'd have it at like the 1/2 yard line or something. So it wasn't really an important bad call

I OWN THIS 12-04-2003 02:48 PM

Well, in last season's Chiefs vs. Browns game, Rudd took his helmet off and then Kansas City was awarded a first down because of it. The Colts should have been given a first down with however many seconds were left on the clock.


Packers3045 12-04-2003 02:51 PM

i think they said they would have given it to the pats since it was a turnover on downs

MountaineerDave 12-04-2003 04:24 PM

Rudd removed his helmet before the whistle had blown and the play was over... it wasn't a dead ball situation.

Just so you folks know, in case you don't get DirecTV (I don't), on they run a transcript of the Eisen-Perreira segment from NFL Total Access on This was actually discussed on that segment.

(Perriera is league head of officiating... it's an interesting read, and proabably a better viewing...)


Packers3045 12-04-2003 09:16 PM

about the "fake" injuries, did the NFL look into it??

MountaineerDave 12-04-2003 10:51 PM

Perreira discusses that, too, in the transcript from NFL Total Access. Unfortunately, I can't find the link. Looks like they take it down after Wednesday (the Perreira segment airs on Tuesday, I think, but maybe on Monday; can't remember).

Ulitmately, Packer, it's just sort of a rule that's written into the book. A team without timeouts has one injury timeout allotted to it inside of one minute, or something like that, without penalty. Injury timeouts exceeding that one, however, result in a five yard walkoff...As Perriera noted, unless the official KNOWS for some reason that the player isn't injured, there's nothing he can do about it but allow the "injured" player to be tended to. Erring on the side of caution...


Packers3045 12-04-2003 11:06 PM

what kind of injury is there that u can be so hurt to have meds look at u and then 15 secs later tackle a guy and charge down the field full speed holding ur helmet up

MountaineerDave 12-04-2003 11:11 PM

Don't forget, the McGinest injury came on 1st down. So, timeout. He sits out 1st down and second down. The Colts called TO after 2nd down. Back on the field for 3rd down. There was a good 90 seconds to 2 whole minutes between his leaving the field and getting back in there...

The charging down the field thing, well... as Coach pointed out, sometimes those things "loosen up."


Packers3045 12-04-2003 11:17 PM

still seems to be too big of a coincedence

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