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-   -   Puff that magic dragon penalty away (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=20207)

jhuerbin88 07-30-2008 01:19 PM

Puff that magic dragon penalty away
 
Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/...ana/index.html

Legislators aim to snuff out penalties for pot use
The U.S. should stop arresting responsible marijuana users, Rep. Barney Frank said Wednesday, announcing a proposal to end federal penalties for Americans carrying fewer than 100 grams, almost a quarter-pound, of the substance...
About time. I feel like the penalty for pot use should be similar to those of alcohol.

CKFresh 07-30-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurghGuy (Post 283817)
About time. I feel like the penalty for pot use should be similar to those of alcohol.

What!

Do you have any idea how dangerous that stuff is?!?!?!

You know how many people die every day from pot!?!?!

Plus, why should people have the right to decide what they put into their own bodies?

:lol:

Ellis 07-30-2008 01:38 PM

100 grams is a lot, but, as almost anyone would agree, it is physically harmless.

With that said, though, there's definitely a darker side to pot; it's not uncommon for people, especially for moderate users, to have bad (bad as in contrast to how it is supposed to work, which does tend to be subjective) reactions to it. There have been times when the only thing that made me know where I was were the small epiphanies/moments of clarity that would break me from the different world I was in-- moments that don't come often enough or last long enough.

jhuerbin88 07-30-2008 01:42 PM

My favorite response to this type of argument is from Ron Paul back in 1988:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

CKFresh 07-30-2008 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis (Post 283819)
100 grams is a lot, but, as almost anyone would agree, it is physically harmless.

With that said, though, there's definitely a darker side to pot; it's not uncommon for people, especially for moderate users, to have bad (bad as in contrast to how it is supposed to work, which does tend to be subjective) reactions to it. There have been times when the only thing that made me know where I was were the small epiphanies/moments of clarity that would break me from the different world I was in-- moments that don't come often enough or last long enough.

I don't think you are trying to argue against legalization of pot, perhaps you are just playing devil's advocate...

As for the "bad reaction," argument...

I know people that have had bad reactions to chocolate... Should that be illegal?

Ellis 07-30-2008 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 283821)
I don't think you are trying to argue against legalization of pot, perhaps you are just playing devil's advocate...

As for the "bad reaction," argument...

I know people that have had bad reactions to chocolate... Should that be illegal?

I'm not playing devil's advocate; I think it should be decriminalized, but I think it's stupid when people play it off, as George Harrison once said, as the equivalent of having a few beers.

It's a mild hallucinogenic and it seems as though fifty percent of people who use it will tell you that they have either passed out or had hallucinations from it.

Again, I don't think that that makes it bad thing, but there is definitely a side that smokers don't mention when arguing why it isn't bad.

CKFresh 07-30-2008 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis (Post 283822)
I'm not playing devil's advocate; I think it should be decriminalized, but I think it's stupid when people play if off, as George Harrison once said, as the equivalent of having a few beers.

I agree... Having a few beers is much worse than smoking a joint.

Quote:

It's a mild hallucinogenic and it seems as though fifty percent of people who use it will tell you that they have either passed out or had hallucinations from it.
What? I have known several dozen pot smokers in my life and I have never heard of anyone passing out from it. The worst reaction I have ever heard of or seen is when someone will feel sick/dizzy from smoking, and that has only occured after drinking a large amount of alcohol followed by smoking pot.

Hallucinations? Very rare. Those typically occur when the plant is ingested, and even then they are mild and uncommon.

Quote:

Again, I don't think that that makes it bad thing, but there is definitely a side that smokers don't mention when arguing why it isn't bad.
They don't mention that side because it doesn't exist. The negative reports I have heard about pot are always, "I just don't like the way it makes me feel."

Marijuana is as harmless as any drug on the market (legal or illegal). The only danger with pot is the smoke inhalation. Many people use vaporizers or ingest the plant, eliminating the dangers of smoke.

It's probably not good for a developing child, but for grown adults, marijuana is much more safe than alcohol.

Ellis 07-30-2008 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 283823)
I agree... Having a few beers is much worse than smoking a joint.

This is a play on words.

Quote:

Hallucinations? Very rare. Those typically occur when the plant is ingested, and even then they are mild and uncommon.
Another problem that arises with words. Admittedly, I probably used the word hallucinations too loosely, but I don't know of any better word to describe it. Again, what I am talking about, and probably didn't articulate correctly, is not that uncommon at all.


Quote:

They don't mention that side because it doesn't exist. The negative reports I have heard about pot are always, "I just don't like the way it makes me feel."

Marijuana is as harmless as any drug on the market (legal or illegal). The only danger with pot is the smoke inhalation. Many people use vaporizers or ingest the plant, eliminating the dangers of smoke.

It's probably not good for a developing child, but for grown adults, marijuana is much more safe than alcohol.
I really don't want to argue about this any more; admittedly, I've smoked twice this week using a vaporizer and I'm not trying to make it out to be a bad thing, and I'm not trying to make it sound like bad reactions happen often, but it is completely naive to pretend like the mental effects are nothing; and I am not arguing that the physical effects are bad; I'm saying that there is a side to smoking that is never mentioned when arguing about pot.

CKFresh 07-30-2008 02:21 PM

Quote:

Another problem that arises with words. Admittedly, I probably used the word hallucinations too loosely, but I don't know of any better word to describe it. Again, what I am talking about, and probably didn't articulate correctly, is not that uncommon at all.
Gotcha... Perhaps you meant paranoia, or something of the sort?

Quote:

I really don't want to argue about this any more; admittedly, I've smoked twice this week using a vaporizer and I'm not trying to make it out to be a bad thing, and I'm not trying to make it sound like bad reactions happen often, but it is completely naive to pretend like the mental effects are nothing; and I am not arguing that the physical effects are bad; I'm saying that there is a side to smoking that is never mentioned when arguing about pot.
:)

Sounds good. I would just point out that perhaps people don't mention "that side" because they have never experienced it.

Take me as an example, the only "negative" I have ever experienced is coughing from taking too big a hit.

Ellis 07-30-2008 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 283828)
Gotcha... Perhaps you meant paranoia, or something of the sort?



:)

Sounds good. I would just point out that perhaps people don't mention "that side" because they have never experienced it.

Take me as an example, the only "negative" I have ever experienced is coughing from taking too big a hit.

Paranoia-- sometimes extreme paranoia :D-- does come with it, but, having not experienced it, you have no idea what the reaction is like, which I know is a reaction that is common: I've heard of and know people who have had similar reactions, and I've read a lot online about people having very similar (if not the same) reactions.

A typical bad reaction, in order by what usually comes first:

Paranoia/panic attack:
It is nonsensical, but all of a sudden everything outside of you seems to be of a different world-- you start to wonder if you will ever snap out of it.You start to panic because you feel completely detached from the outside world and become paranoid of the things around you.

On another note, when in this state, riding in a car is absolutely crazy. You hold on for dear life; it feels like you are on a roller coaster and the notion of gravity is gone.

Hallucinations:
Calling them hallucinations may not be right, but I don't know what else to call them. You start to get tired and dazed. The best way to describe it is that you are stuck in the state before you are asleep, but yet still half-dreaming. You'll often close your eyes and see different patterns, especially when listening to music. An example would be one time-- I forget what song I was listening to-- there was a white background with like 10x10 rows of trees, which would change colors.

The outside world is no longer detached from you, but has a completely different essence. You may feel like the room you are in is somewhere else-- example: floating in space, in another country, etc.

During this though, there is still a small part of your conscious that still tries telling you where you are, and occasionally it will break in and tell you to snap out of it, but it never prevails: you snap back into the daze you were in.

Passing out:
Maybe passing out isn't the right word, but, because you are almost already dreaming, you just get really tired and can't stop yourself from falling asleep. When you are awake, you feel this urge to fall asleep that you can't fight off.

The first time I got like this I was driving (which was in no way safe-- it's why I stopped driving when I smoke) and there were about four different times when I was ready to just pull off to the side of the road because I felt like I was going to pass out. Some how the 25% of me that knew where I was was able to get me to a parking lot.

My friend who had never had these experiences didn't believe me, until I had one with him and he saw how messed up I was. From what I've read online and from what I've heard, they really don't seem that uncommon, it's just that the same people get them and the same people don't.

It's not that this is a bad experience, although certainly not fun, it's just that it is really messed up and not what the drug was intended to do.

The only way to snap out of it is to fall asleep for a few hours, and when you wake up you are fine.

There are a number of reasons why people say this happens to people-- smoking too much, potency of the pot, dehydration, being in a bad environment that triggers it off-- but it seems to just happen randomly for me.

And this is the darker side of the drug that won't let me view the drug as innocent as many people make it out to be.

CKFresh 07-30-2008 03:46 PM

I can see your point.

I would still argue that if that is the case, maybe pot isn't for you (not you specifically, you know what I mean).

Hallucinations - I have experienced on many other drugs, but never with pot.

I have at times felt anxious, but not quite paranoid.

I don't like going out in public when high... I tend to feel slightly paranoid in those situations.

Either way, I think we'd both agree, people should have the choice to enjoy a joint, just like they have the choice to enjoy a beer.

Ellis 07-30-2008 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 283840)
I can see your point.

I would still argue that if that is the case, maybe pot isn't for you (not you specifically, you know what I mean).

Yeah, I've thought the same thing, but that still hasn't stopped me :D

But, having spoken about the few bad things about pot, let me say some of the good things, when smoking goes right:

You don't have a care in the world, everything is innately good; there are no philosophical problems, there is only here and now; buildings and architecture look amazing; you can focus and hear music 100 percent better; colors are intensified-- it's like having new eyes; you feel that you can come so close to the essence of things that you can almost touch it-- everything makes sense, but in a way that is inarticulable, just like the emotion or scene that a good piece of classical music makes you feel, but yet you can't articulate.

Like anything, it is good in moderation and, yes, people should have the right to smoke.

CKFresh 07-30-2008 04:23 PM

Ever tried LSD Ellis?

Ellis 07-30-2008 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 283853)
Ever tried LSD Ellis?

Nope. That, from what I've read, is even less physically harmful and less addictive than pot, but, at this moment time, even if I wanted to try it, I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from.

Have you had any good experiences with that?

CKFresh 07-30-2008 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellis (Post 283854)
Nope. That, from what I've read, is even less physically harmless and less addictive than pot, but, at this moment time, even if I wanted to try it, I wouldn't have anyone to buy it from.

Have you had any good experiences with that?

In a word, yes.

I wouldn't recommend it to everyone however. First of all, if you are not in a "comfortable" place, with people who you trust, it can be terrifying.

But if done in the right situations, it can be absolutely amazing. Think colors look brighter on pot? :thumbsup2:

The basic feeling starts out very "giggly." Everything is absolutely hillarious, even if it isn't. Almost every time I've tried it, I've laughed so hard that tears come out.

After that, your mind will begin to go in very strange directions. You will have very profound thoughts - well, at least they seem profound at the time. A lot of people describe it as, "it all makes sense." You will feel like you've discovered something, but you just odn't know what it is.

Of course, nothing enlightening has happened to you, but your mind is certainly opened to a new way of seeing things.

Music sounds like it is directly in your head, and everything you see (especially lights) has a wavey appearance - sometimes it appears as though things are melting.

Looking in a mirror can be terrifying, because you don't look like you should.

Sometimes you feel like you are wet, even though you are completely dry.

Sleeping is impossible for at least 6 hours after taking it.

The next day your brain feels like mush, and basic mental tasks are very difficult.

All-in-all, I love it.

I've probably done it a dozen times or so. One or two times I've felt uncomfortable and wished it would go away, but for the most part, it was the most fun I've ever had.

Still, it's not for everyone.


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