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-   -   B(C)S talk 2006 (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=15112)

#99 10-16-2006 06:08 PM

B(C)S talk 2006
 
Right now, it's Ohio State #1 and USC #2. As I'm sure most people here would be quick to agree, USC is in major trouble. If current form continues, there's no way they get through the upcoming three-game stretch of Oregon, Cal, and Notre Dame without at least one loss (my money is on Cal to do the deed).

Auburn ahead of WVU (weak Mountaineer schedule or not) is yet ANOTHER strike against the B(C)S. Auburn still lost to an opponent that USC hung 50 points on. It'll be forgotten, unfortunately, b/c that USC win over Arkansas happened in week 1.

My top five, for argument's sake:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas (their only loss was a toughy to Ohio State and they're still untouchable in the Big 12 -- though that conference sucks, too)

It's a safe -- but not guaranteed -- bet that Ohio State/Michigan will claim one spot in the national title game, should they both be unbeaten when they meet at the end of the season. With USC looking wobbly at the moment, if they pick up a loss and WVU runs the table... crappy Big East (I mean, it's a lousy football conference) or not, Mountaineers should be the other half of that title game. This would, once again, open the current system up to scrutiny and ridicule, given that about half the teams in the current top ten would likely be favored against WVU.

Richard the Lionheart 10-16-2006 06:19 PM

I don't see how this is a problem created by the BCS. I too am assuming a USC loss comming up, which if that happens, means that the winner of UM/OSU will probably play the winner of Louisville/WVA. If that happens...I don't see the problem. One loss teams are always so quick to complain...well, this isn't the NFL...this is NCAA football...if you loose, you are probably not the best team in the country that year. Maybe WVA wouldn't deserve to be in the game, and would get creemed by UM or OSU...maybe, but we don't know for sure how good they are because they would not have lost. They wouldn't have made a mistake to cost themselves.

Fact is, Texas is not the best team in the country...that has already been established...on their home field no less.

Either is Auburn...I think Arkansas did a pretty good job of proving that.

Notre Dame? You must be joking.

Florida? Not a chance. They were given about 150 opportunities to win that game with Auburn and squandered them all. They are too sloppy, overly penalized, and are not good enough yet...next year with Tebow, who knows? Maybe if they stop with the personal fouls and holding calls every play to give that horrible Auburn offense new life. This is not the year for them, however. I exepect them to loose again.

So who does that leave us with? Obviously the only two teams who no one is sure about...WVU and Louisville. Either one of them undefeated should make it in before a one loss team who has already proven they don't belong. The point of this whole system is to settle controvery when voters aren't sure who is better (i.e. Michigan and Nebraska in '97) not to give teams new life when they already FAILED to play high caliber football each and every week. You are never guaranteed a second chance in college football, but I would like to see undefeated teams get ONE chance.

#99 10-16-2006 08:22 PM

I agree 100% with you, Ricky. I'm all for an all-undefeated national championship game, even if one of those teams does happen to come out of the Big East.

Just to clarify -- and this is not necessarily "my gripe" per se -- but there will definitely be those calling for a playoff, even if this comes to pass. If West Virginia makes the nat'l title game as an unbeaten, I think it'd be great and a rare example of the current formula working. But to say that they were tested as much as some SEC, Pac 10, or Big Ten teams competing for the same spot would be erroneous.

MountaineerDave 10-18-2006 02:41 PM

Tested or not doesn't make them any worse than Auburn, 99.

Georgia (who's unredeemingly and incredibly poorly prepared week to week) thought so little of WVU last January that they got their hats handed to them. While I doubt Tressel or Carroll would permit such a thing to happen to his team, there's no guaranteeing it, and besides... who says an undefeated WVU isn't better than USC or OSU anyway?

The only reason I'd ever support a playoff, btw, is so that the talking heads would shut up about the Big East sucking so much. Where's the Pac 10 this year? Where's the AC-bleeping-C? The Big 12 stinks out loud, sans Texas and OU (and maybe including Missouri, but absolutely no one else is in the conversation--yes, even Nebraska). And I don't carry that much respect for the SEC around in my pocket, either. I'd love a playoff that ended in a title game pitting WVU and Louisville for a couple years in a row. I'd absolutely LOVE it.

(But, I don't want a playoff.)

da12ken 10-18-2006 03:02 PM

Then don't talk about them Dave lol.

#99 10-18-2006 03:43 PM

Sorry, Dave, but I just had to talk about it ;)

I admit, I'm a playoffs advocate. Louisville may very well be the best team in the world, but what we're talking about here is effectively treating the regular season -- from day one -- as the playoffs. That spells inequality. Such is college football.

Let me just ask, suppose a great team like Cal wins out (that'd include beating USC on the road) and there's only one unbeaten left at season's end. Why is Cal's argument to play in the nat'l title game any less valid than an Auburn or a Texas or potentially an Ohio State or West Virginia? It's not.

buckeyefan78 10-18-2006 04:11 PM

So you're saying an 11-1 Cal team has the same right to play in the NC game as an undefeated Ohio State or West Virginia?

#99 10-18-2006 05:04 PM

No, read it again. I'm saying that in a hypothetical situation, at season's end, if only one team was unbeaten, that there would be a host of 1-loss teams that would have legit claims to play in that game.

Alex 10-18-2006 05:46 PM

I don't see it happening. Either West Virginia or Louisville should be undefeated, saving us from that potential mess of trying to figure out which 1-loss team deserves to be in.

MountaineerDave 10-18-2006 05:48 PM

Always reserving the right to be proven wrong, Cal, imo, is the best one-loss team in the land. With the possible exception of Tennessee...
That said, Cal lost their right to beat Tennessee to a NC game by losing to Tennessee. I'm not sure Tennessee finishes with one loss, but...
for argument's sake, say WVU beats UofL but loses to Rutgers, who in turn loses to U of L, leaving the Big East in a 3-way tie of once-beatens...
I'd prefer to see Tennessee take on undefeated OSU than Cal, based solely on that one game.

What's been left out of the discussion here, and I'm surprised by its omission, honestly, is this:
What if UofM goes to the horseshoe and wins by a single point?
Assume Cal wins out. Assume that everyone who can win out, does. (WVU, for my sake, that is).

Who goes to the NC game?
Right now, there's a fairly strong suggestion, numerically, that the NC game could be an OSU-Michigan rematch. The top three currently have such a strong lead, getting any other team into that top 3 will be quite a feat. A narrow margin of victory by who will at that point likely be the BCS #1&2 might keep both alive in the BCS polls...

Personally, I think that they may be the top two teams in the land, and I wouldn't be all that put out by being left out of that NC game (I'd be pissed, but I'd also kinda understand; I'm not an idiot. WVU hasn't beaten anyone yet. Still have UofL and undefeated Rutgers, as well a one-loss Pitt to play, so much moving up can be done between now and then.)

#99 10-18-2006 07:20 PM

Excellent points. Huzzah! The topic is alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountaineerDave (Post 219939)
Always reserving the right to be proven wrong, Cal, imo, is the best one-loss team in the land. With the possible exception of Tennessee...
That said, Cal lost their right to beat Tennessee to a NC game by losing to Tennessee. I'm not sure Tennessee finishes with one loss, but...
for argument's sake, say WVU beats UofL but loses to Rutgers, who in turn loses to U of L, leaving the Big East in a 3-way tie of once-beatens...
I'd prefer to see Tennessee take on undefeated OSU than Cal, based solely on that one game.

I completely buy that. I think head-to-head should be a big factor. The question then, however, becomes who's loss is more significant (assuming, for the sake of argument, all teams win out). For example, Tennessee falling to Florida or Texas falling to Ohio State? Or, heck, the losers of the OSU/Mich, WVU/L'ville games?


Quote:

Originally Posted by MountaineerDave (Post 219939)
What's been left out of the discussion here, and I'm surprised by its omission, honestly, is this:
What if UofM goes to the horseshoe and wins by a single point?
Assume Cal wins out. Assume that everyone who can win out, does. (WVU, for my sake, that is).

Who goes to the NC game?
Right now, there's a fairly strong suggestion, numerically, that the NC game could be an OSU-Michigan rematch. The top three currently have such a strong lead, getting any other team into that top 3 will be quite a feat. A narrow margin of victory by who will at that point likely be the BCS #1&2 might keep both alive in the BCS polls...

Personally, I think that they may be the top two teams in the land, and I wouldn't be all that put out by being left out of that NC game (I'd be pissed, but I'd also kinda understand; I'm not an idiot. WVU hasn't beaten anyone yet. Still have UofL and undefeated Rutgers, as well a one-loss Pitt to play, so much moving up can be done between now and then.)

This is a strong argument for the B(C)S poll, but if I were a WVU fan in that situation, I'd be absolutely livid. Michigan would have proven
on the field that it can beat Ohio State. Ultimately, that's the one method we'd all like to see used when determining the two NC game representatives -- head-to-head competition.

buckeyefan78 10-18-2006 07:31 PM

How is this even a debate? If there are 2 unbeatens...they go. If there is one unbeaten...they go and if there is a one-loss team that had their lone loss to the unbeaten...they should go for the rematch.

Let's say...
One unbeaten: Ohio State
One-loss teams: Michigan, Cal, WVU, Louisville, Tennessee, Texas

Michigan and Texas lost to Ohio State. Michigan lost on the road, Texas at home...easy...Ohio State vs. Michigan again.

Let's say...
One unbeaten: Michigan
One-loss teams: USC, WVU, Ohio State, Louisville, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin

Wisconsin and Ohio State lost to Michigan. Wisconsin lost on the road, OSU lost at home...easy...Michigan vs. Wisconsin again.

Now that is the fair way...I don't see how that can be argued. I hate it and would jump off a cliff if OSU and Blue played again...just saying.

Don't mind me though...I still have hope we finish undefeated and somehow go down to #3 in the BCS so we can go to the Rose Bowl. I don't want to play in that spaceship out in the desert for the 4th time in 5 years.

#99 10-18-2006 09:29 PM

If that's the case, then why would Michigan (assuming both WVU and L'ville have losses) even bother playing the regular season finale if it amounts to nothing more than an exhibition game? The point is that they already played each other.

HibachiDG 10-18-2006 09:36 PM

Quote:

Let's say...
One unbeaten: Michigan
One-loss teams: USC, WVU, Ohio State, Louisville, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin

Wisconsin and Ohio State lost to Michigan. Wisconsin lost on the road, OSU lost at home...easy...Michigan vs. Wisconsin again.

Now that is the fair way...I don't see how that can be argued. I hate it and would jump off a cliff if OSU and Blue played again...just saying.
You don't see how this can be argued? Seriously? I mean, if it happens, I'll gladly make the argument. I mean, WVU/Louisville going through their schedule with only one loss is certainly more impressive than Wisconsin doing it. Since Wisconsin doesn't play Ohio State, WVU and Louisville both play schedules as good as the one Wisconsin plays. Louisville's slightly stronger than WVU. I think if The Ville or WVU both have 1 loss, then the advantage there goes to the team that won the head to head.

Tennessee if they finished with one loss is clearly going to the National Title game. Tennessee's schedule is much more difficult than Wisconsin's. USC would have an argument over Wisconsin, especially if Arkansas stays hot.

I think if all these teams finish with one loss, Wisconsin is simply an after thought.

Alex 10-18-2006 09:56 PM

Wisconsin has no shot. They won't have a big enough victory to get past other one loss teams. Right now they're looking at Iowa and/or PSU as their biggest win. Even as a PSU fan, it's not really one they can hang their hat on this season. And Iowa lost to Indiana. 'Nuff said.

Auburn should win out and finish 11-1. However, they're out of the race unless Arkansas drops two SEC games (possible since they play Tennessee and LSU, but both are at home). Hard to justify them getting into the MNC game if they don't even make it to the conference championship game. I think winning your own conference should be a pre-requisite for playing for the MNC. Right now Tennessee needs Florida to lose to Georgia (doubtful that Vandy or Carolina will beat them) in order to get to the SEC title game. Like Auburn, if they don't win their own conference, they don't deserve to play for the MNC.

The mystery guest in all of this could be Arkansas. Even though Southern Cal smoked them, if the Hawgs win out they would have wins against Auburn, Tennessee, LSU and Florida in the SEC title game. That's four impressive victories that few teams would be able to match. Ohio State (Texas, Iowa (maybe), Penn State (maybe), and Michigan) or Michigan (Notre Dame, Penn State (maybe), Iowa (maybe), and Ohio State) and Southern Cal (Arkansas, Nebraska, Cal, Oregon, Notre Dame) are potentially the only ones who could.

I'm hoping Southern Cal or West Virginia goes undefeated just so we don't have to hear another month-plus of whining about the BCS screwing teams over.


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