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-   -   Obama's big flip-flop splash (https://www.sports-central.org/community/boards/showthread.php?t=20221)

Anthony 08-06-2008 06:56 AM

There was an op-ed article in the San Francisco Chronicle yesterday suggesting that Obama is having trouble with older voters; indeed, he appears to be trailing McCain by 5 points among voters over 65 - the same age bracket George W. Bush lost decisively, both times.

Maybe it's Obama's radical associations - Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, etc. - that is turning these voters off?

CKFresh 08-06-2008 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 284141)
There was an op-ed article in the San Francisco Chronicle yesterday suggesting that Obama is having trouble with older voters; indeed, he appears to be trailing McCain by 5 points among voters over 65 - the same age bracket George W. Bush lost decisively, both times.

Maybe it's Obama's radical associations - Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, etc. - that is turning these voters off?

Or could it have something to do with the fact that older people are more likely to be racist????

Association with William Ayers? Haven't I already proved you wrong about that. They know each other... Get over it. They don't exchange ideas about policy.

DETMURDS 08-06-2008 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 284144)
Or could it have something to do with the fact that older people are more likely to be racist????

Association with William Ayers? Haven't I already proved you wrong about that. They know each other... Get over it. They don't exchange ideas about policy.

Perfect post Anthony! I have seen proof that Obama and Ayers have many links together. There is NO PROOF that can change what has actually happened.

trayhezy 08-06-2008 11:38 PM

It could be the race thing.

Or it could be that while younger voters like the younger guy, older voters like the "old white haired dude".

CKFresh 08-07-2008 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DETMURDS (Post 284158)
Perfect post Anthony! I have seen proof that Obama and Ayers have many links together. There is NO PROOF that can change what has actually happened.

And I have proof that Bush is linked to Bin Laden...

What's your point?

catman 08-07-2008 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 284169)
And I have proof that Bush is linked to Bin Laden...

What's your point?

This is something that I would need to see before I believe it is nothing more than "more of the same'" from you, Fresh.
Obama has a lot of ties to real racism. He will have a lot of work to do to eliminate that from his campaign.

CKFresh 08-07-2008 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman (Post 284170)
This is something that I would need to see before I believe it is nothing more than "more of the same'" from you, Fresh.
Obama has a lot of ties to real racism. He will have a lot of work to do to eliminate that from his campaign.

You can do some research I'm sure, but this can get you started...

http://www.truthout.org/article/ties...sama-bin-laden

Bush has done business with the Bin Laden family for years.

Guilt-by-association?

Obama's ties with "real racism?" Such as?

DETMURDS 08-07-2008 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKFresh (Post 284169)
And I have proof that Bush is linked to Bin Laden...

What's your point?

Funny how you always change the subject CKFresh? Let me tell you something,...Bush is the President,...Obama is a wanna-be President.

Anywho, Barry has more problems,..he hasn't been nominated just yet:

Sen. Hillary Clinton told a gathering of supporters last week that she's looking for a "strategy" for her delegates to have their voices heard and "respected" at the Democratic National Convention -- and did not rule out the possibility of having her name placed into nomination at the convention alongside Sen. Barack Obama's. "I happen to believe that we will come out stronger if people feel that their voices were heard and their views were respected. I think that is a very big part of how we actually come out unified," Clinton, D-N.Y., said at a California fundraiser last Thursday.

I think she is still in it, even more so since Barry was getting creamed by her in the later primaries. And please, don't bring up Hawaii, and P.R. primaries either?

Here is just a taste of what is happening to BHO.

-Among voters aged 18-29, Obama lost 16 percent and McCain gained 20. Obama still leads, 49-38;

-Among women, McCain gained 10 percentage points. Obama now leads 43-38;

-Among independents, Obama lost an 11 point lead. They're now tied;

-Among Democrats, Obama's support dropped from 83 percent to 74 percent;

-Among Catholics, Obama lost the 11 point lead he had in July and now trails McCain by 15.

The question, obviously, is whether that erosion will continue as voters continue to learn more about Obama, and see him less as a media phenomenon, and more as a conventional, but very liberal, Democrat with little practical experience.

CKFresh 08-07-2008 01:02 PM

Quote:

The question, obviously, is whether that erosion will continue as voters continue to learn more about Obama, and see him less as a media phenomenon, and more as a conventional, but very liberal, Democrat with little practical experience.
No, once they see him on stage with the old man they will realize that his ideas are much more mainstream than McCain's.

The choice is between Bush the third, or a man who is with the majority of the country on nearly every issue - the war, health care, the environment, and the economy.

Bush's policies have failed. McCain is no different than Bush - other than on the environment.

Once people see Obama next to McCain, the lead will rise to a double-digit lead.

catman 08-08-2008 01:30 AM

Has Bush done business with Osama bin Laden? Most of his family has renounced him and his beliefs.
Your "guilt by association" does not wash here. Osama has a half brother that is a lawyer in Boston that says he would likely not recognize him if they were to meet on the street.
Sorry Fresh, you'll have to do a bit better with your attempt to deflect the blatant racism that is in Obama's campaign.

catman 08-08-2008 01:35 AM

By blatant racism I am, of course, referring to Jeremiah Wright, who was Obama's pastor and "mentor" for over 20 years.
This, my friend, is guilt without being by "association".

catman 08-08-2008 01:59 AM

One more thing about your attempts at deflecting this "problem" by bringing the incumbant president into the discussion. He is not eligible to run for the office again, therefore is not germaine to the discussion of the current election. Time to bring up concerns about his qualifications were over nearly 4 years ago.
Don't blame the Republicans for running better campaigns over the past 2 election cycles.

Anthony 08-08-2008 06:39 AM

In my dealings at least, I have found people now in the age range of roughly 35 to 50 to be a lot more racist than those currently over 65.

And you can't get around the fact that the Republicans are scoring their most telling points by attacking Barack Obama for both his perceived pacifism and his perceived environmentalism - the twin pillars of the '60s counterculture's political edifice.

This campaign is 1972 all over again - but the real 1972 had better movies and better music (it also had a Summer Olympics defaced by a terrorist incident - a sobering thought).

CKFresh 08-08-2008 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catman (Post 284193)
By blatant racism I am, of course, referring to Jeremiah Wright, who was Obama's pastor and "mentor" for over 20 years.
This, my friend, is guilt without being by "association".

And what did Wright say that was racist?

Quote:

In my dealings at least, I have found people now in the age range of roughly 35 to 50 to be a lot more racist than those currently over 65.
Anthony, you are either extremely sheltered, or full of crap.

First of all, common sense will tell you that you are wrong.

People over the age of 60 had grandparents who owned slaves.

People who are over the age of 60 were likely taught that black people were "lesser" humans than white people. They were taught that black people were "less evolved" than white people.

They grew up in a time when they were segregated by race.

OVer the past 60 years - hate crimes have decreased, segregation was abolished, equal rights were established, and more black people have risen to power due to less racism from each generation.

A black man could never have been nominated for president 20 years ago.

So, simply knowing a little bit about history would suggest that older people are more racist than younger people.

Then of course, we have statistical information to prove your anecdotal evidence wrong...

CBS Poll:

Democrats (at 67 percent) are slightly more likely than Republicans (at 61 percent) to say most people they know would vote for a black candidate. Older Americans are less likely to respond that people they know would do so: Just 58 percent of those 65 and older say most of the people they know would vote for a black candidate. By contrast, 70 percent of respondents under 30 years old said those they know would do so.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4151937.shtml

I suppose your next argument is going to be that the South is less racist than the North and that Republicans are less racist than Democrats?

:lol:

Quote:

And you can't get around the fact that the Republicans are scoring their most telling points by attacking Barack Obama for both his perceived pacifism and his perceived environmentalism - the twin pillars of the '60s counterculture's political edifice.
Pacifism? Like "I will bomb Iran." Or how about, "If we knew Bin Laden was in Pakistan, and they were doing nothing about it, we would attack."

Sounds like a real pinko.

Environmentalism? OH NO! Don't clean up the environment! What a scary thought!

:rolleyes:

catman 08-08-2008 12:51 PM

Fresh, stop trying to defoect the "difficulties" Obama has by bringing Bush into the discussion.
Jeremiah Wright has been a "black power" pastor for many years. I, as a white Christian, might not be welcome in his church. At least I would not feel comfortable there.
I have said for a long time that racism still is at home in the Democratic party and will stick to that statement. Republicans speak about "self-help", and advocate the formation of businesses in the inner-cities. Democrats speak about the climate of hopelessness in the inner-city and advocate the continuation of the welfare-state that has enslaved the minority population for entirely too long. If that isn't racism, I don't know what is.
As to cleaning up the environment, stop talking about it and get out and actually do it as I do.


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