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Old 04-21-2010, 05:09 AM   #96
Brad O.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 792
Brad O. will become famous soon enough

Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
If he was (half) Korean, he would be another Hines Ward - but that's not what I was suggesting; maybe he spent some time training in Korea or admires Korean martial-arts disciplines for some reason? BJ Penn is also half Korean, so maybe there's a tie-in there.
I think I'm not understanding something here. How would he be another Hines Ward?

How does BJ Penn fit into this?

And I'm very skeptical that Yager's awful nickname is inspired by his admiration for Korean martial arts. Maybe I'm judging him too soon, but he doesn't strike me as a real worldly guy. I think it's far, far more likely that he deliberately chose to misspell "chosen" because it seemed cool to him.

Originally Posted by Anthony
He may have physically used the term only once, but he was playing the "size card" virtually throughout the show.
Interesting, I never got that vibe. I think it was an issue once or twice when he was drunk and actively starting a fight, but definitely not something I noticed "throughout the show".

Originally Posted by Anthony
Well it's closely related; "lay-and-pray," etc., are essentially thinly-veiled euphemisms for "finesse."
I disagree. Both are used to criticize an opponent for not being able to win the "right" way, but I don't think the terms have anything like the same connotations. I assume you're referring to the way "finesse" is sometimes used as a pejorative in football, for teams that emphasize speed and skill more than power and strength? When football players accuse someone of being a "finesse" team or player, there is certainly an implicit accusation of "soft"-ness. In MMA, lay-and-pray means you lack skill: all you can do is wrestle, with no striking and no subs. The lay-and-pray guys are often the most powerful, and in a streetfight (or before the unified rules) where they could do things like headbutt, some of these guys would be absolutely devastating. LNP means you're boring, and I don't think many people use it to imply that a guy isn't tough. It's a criticism of style rather than character.

In football, finesse is the equivalent of making fun of a nerd, someone who's successful but whom you could probably beat up. "You're smart and fast, do you think you're too good to run up the middle? Real football is played in the trenches! You're flashy, but you're soft. You may have won on the scoreboard, but we're tougher than you, you're barely a real man." In MMA, lay-and-pray is, IMO, the opposite accusation: "Fine, you're strong. But you're unskilled. You haven't studied, and you don't have the variety of skills this sport really calls for. You may have won on the scorecards, but you don't have any style, you're one-dimensional and boring. I'm not impressed by your performance."

To the extent it exists, I think the football equivalent of LNP might be a great running team that succeeds by executing a simple gameplan: Lombardi's Packers, the '72 Dolphins, Washington in the early 80s, the '04 Steelers, etc. The MMA equivalent of "finesse" might be a submissions specialist: Aoki, Maia, Yahya, etc. We both know there are fans who boo anyone who won't "stand and bang", but I think most MMA fans understand and appreciate active grappling. There's a big difference between working for position and setting up holds vs. pinning a guy down until the round ends or the ref stands you up, without working for strikes or submissions, maybe not even trying to improve your position.

That's what bothered me about Mo vs. Mousasi and Shields vs. Miller. They weren't active, they weren't trying to finish the fight, they were just lying on top of the guy. It's incredibly dull. I guess there's a certain skill in it, but it's not entertaining, not something anyone would go out of their way to watch. IMO, there are three kinds of terrible boring in MMA: endless circling, endless clinching, and LNP. They're equally bad, as far as I'm concerned. I want to see something happening, and I want to see guys trying to finish the fight. I don't have a problem, for instance, with GSP's performance against Hardy. He worked to improve position, he was striking from guard, and he continually looked for submissions. That's all I ask.

Originally Posted by Anthony
You know and I know that Edgar-Penn II is going to go exactly the same way as Serra-GSP II went - and that's if Frankie Edgar is lucky!
Certainly BJ will be favored, but I think Edgar is a much more serious opponent than Serra ever was. There's a big difference between landing a fluke knockout -- the proverbial "puncher's chance" -- and winning a UD over 5 rounds.

Edgar's résumé is much more impressive than Serra's. I understand comparing the upsets, but not the fighters themselves. Edgar is on a different level than Serra.

Originally Posted by Anthony
But so far as Rashad goes, he would be a very different fighter style-wise if he came down from 205 (not that his present style bothers me personally - but again, I'm not the kind of MMA fan they're courting).
What makes you think so? I've never known a fighter to dramatically change his style after changing weight classes. And I beg you not to bring up Jason Lambert. We've been over that.
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