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Old 03-19-2009, 02:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Ellis View Post
This, I think, is going to explain it all-- and I hope doesn't come off as too harsh
I'm just trying to see these things Rob. No worries.

Originally Posted by Ellis View Post
go to Sheetz. I see the guy behind the counter. He works 40 hours a week, goes home, watches TV, fishes, and that's about his entire being.

If you are him, what's the point of even getting up in the morning? Yeah, I know that he keeps the economy and world moving, he's necessary, etc. But what does he have to offer the world? Nothing. He's just a thoughtless guy who might as well never existed; he lives like 99.99% of the rest of the world.

But take Beethoven... here is a guy who saw the world in a way that no one else did. And he contributed to making the world see things in a different way.)
How do we know the guy at Sheetz isn't working on something in his spare time that he is immersed in? Many people who excelled in their chosen fields didn't approach their disciplines the same way due to external forces. What about people who didn't give the full extent of their discoveries/insights for fear of external forces (church, state)? Did they fail? Should we respect them?

And specifically,

How did Beethoven see the world in a different way? Why does anyone have to contribute to the world?

Originally Posted by Ellis View Post
I'd say that they can have little meaning, if any. I would approach the situation by just moving on... I wouldn't try and convince them the other way... they're not going to see it, plus they could get offended. (I made an exception for you, though )
Why worry about offending people if they're meaningless? Seems like a hypocritical statement. I'm not offended here, but since I'm not seeing these issues as you do why bother talking to me about it?

You mentioned Beethoven and Wittgenstein both being suicidal from the process of extraction (I presume) from society to take on their disciplines in this no holds barred manner. Is being suicidal a prereq for this endeavor? Should we all be suicidal? If we've determined that someone who can't appreciate someone like Beethoven is meaningless, should they kill themselves? Should I kill myself since I don't follow this logic? Are you suicidal? And do you look forward to killing yourself if you can't achieve this process?
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