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Old 02-01-2010, 07:43 PM   #19
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 64
bachslunch is on a distinguished road

Brad, found all this indeed helpful, and the tree post is really good to see -- thanks. No unhappiness with any possible pedantry in what was written, either -- that's good info as far as I'm concerned, and welcome. It appears fair to say there's some level of difference between the quality of last year's and this year's "pioneer" argument mentioned above. I'm admittedly one who really likes and best trusts documentation and stats (used in correct context, for sure), but there are some things you can't delineate this way, and football can be especially messy here. The trick is knowing when it works and when it doesn't, and that takes experience. Even baseball has this problem when it comes to player fielding prowess; fielding percentage can be a very deceiving stat (telling nothing about fielding range, which is important), and fielding runs tells you more but not enough to discount personal observation.

Will say that one of the concerns I ran into in conversations online and elsewhere about Dick LeBeau's candidacy revolved not just around comparisons to the "Bob Hayes is a pioneer" aspect last year, but also around the level of assumed information I was encountering on LeBeau this year -- and that included me as well as other people. I knew about the HotVG level of his DB play (which some folks still don't seem aware of), but I had taken for granted a particular brilliance level regarding his overall assistant coaching career (I knew he hadn't had a successful head coaching run). One could say that's true for his time spent with the Steelers, but the Bengals part of his AC career was a surprise, and notably less good than I had assumed. This told me in part to question everything and assume nothing, for good or ill. I needed to know for sure here as well. Hopefully understood from this perspective.

For what it's worth, I initially used to support the idea of Floyd Little for the HoF, and you'll find older posts of mine on the internet to that effect. That's no longer true, and discussions plus a more careful look at things shaped that change.
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