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Old 09-02-2008, 09:10 PM   #100
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You'd argue that it doesn't take desperate times to get the average American off his ass & put the effort into putting the parties feet to the fire? Or that the average American who gives up cuz they think they can't change anything & just goes along with the masses is doing the right thing? Or that we aren't in desperate shape on numerous fronts? Or...well...what?

You've got me confused...
I would argue that we are not in desperate shape on numerous fronts. The first two questions you posed have nothing to do with what I'm trying to say.

Ya really got me here, Doug. Surely you don't mean that going thru history looking for the exact set of circumstances, which of course you won't find, is the only answer to facilitate change are you?
I absolutely did not mean to go through history looking for the exact set of circumstances. Just would say to go through those historical contexts and look at why change occurred, then look at the United States currently. We're a lot better off than what you're going to find when you look back through history and find moments were people rose up as one and fought the establishment, so to speak.

You actually believe that the average American is pleased & content with the direction this country is taking? Please explain how?

I think it is hard to square the concept of displeasure as a whole with reality. Of course when you look at any situation you are going to find displeasure. As well, you're going to find levels of displeasure. If you phrased the question to people as "pleased and content" or "bad, desperate needs" then I think the large majority of people in this country will answer with pleased and content. Same with if you phrased it as simple good or bad. If the majority of people were to answer bad, desperate needs, then I would agree with some of what you're saying about generating a significant change.

Now, within saying good over bad, there are levels of discontent, displeasure and even "desperate" situations. Which is where I think the two parties come into play. I think one of the things that you're doing is confusing the levels of discontent within an overall favorable situation with a bad situation overall. That's just not the case. And, for people that think the country is generally good, but there are things that we can improve as there always are, the argument stays between the two major parties.

So because of no immediate change, you just allow the system to be what it is? Staggering...
Nah, the point I was trying to make there is that we have certainly had great moments in this country despite this perceived symptom you threw out.

How exactly does punching a certain box at election time make a party stronger? How does following the status quo with no participation beyond picking a group make either party bend to the people's will & react to their dissatisfaction?

If you truly believe that a "strong Democratic Party" is the right way, what's going to make them strong? Just by voting them in?
Just by voting who in? You mean now against the Republicans? Or in the process of selecting the candidate? I don't think I've ever said I would just simply vote for a Democrat because that's the Democratic candidate. If the Obama/Clinton race hadn't been as close as it was I likely would not have voted for Clinton. In 2004, I forget who I voted for, but it was either Kucinich or Sharpton just because the nominee was decided and I felt like those two candidates talked about some things the other candidates did not. I have no idea if this paragraph answered what you were saying, but I really didn't understand what you were getting at.
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