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Old 09-03-2008, 12:49 AM   #104
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For the first part, I've never said America is not without problems. I don't feel as if the problems you pointed out lead to desperate situation. Not one where we need some kind of desperate change. I mean, I could easily add to that list with other problems that America faces, but that isn't the point.

So, we change from the current politics to something else. Maybe these problems subside, but we're always going to have problems. To just list them off doesn't really do a whole lot of good for the point of whether America is generally doing good or bad. I haven't heard one piece of information that would lead me to believe that Americans as a whole don't generally think this is a successful country. I have heard plenty of information about problems that Americans face.

I guess I'm one who doesn't buy into the "Hey, things could be worse" or "Hey, things are better than the past" theory.

While it's good that some things have gotten better in some cases, it definitely has no bearing on progress that needs to be ongoing every day in this country & isn't. Besides, some of the current issues are unique in their own right of corporate entities having even more power & influence than ever before & has the Government playing the sycophant to new lows.
I do buy into the things could be worse argument. That doesn't mean that I don't think we should stop moving forward.

I'd venture a guess that you, personally, aren't affected by much if any of those above issues or your frustration & dissatisfaction would be well evident. I wouldn't wish any of them on you but I'd say your view would be forever altered if you were.
Eh, that's a cop out. I don't think you need to try to deflect from the issues.

Yea, if you want to get out of taking ownership of issues, whether as a politician or an apathetic voter, by going for a 'general' question that answers problems/issues with a positive thing,'d be horseshoeing people into saying "I guess it's still the best place to live".
Right, but we're talking about people rising up and saying change this now. My original point is that it's going to be hard to get people to do that when they're still, even if begrudgingly so, under the belief that this is the best place to live.

The reality is that these issues should & aren't being addressed for a myriad of reasons...all unacceptable.
Absolutely, but this isn't what we're debating, is it?

You said earlier to CK, "It's not as tho there isn't ever any good in this country's Government," under that premise, if these unacceptable things all occur under the umbrella of still a place where people are going to want to live, what good is radical change in the system? If people generally feel government is ****ed up, but can be good, why are they going to go out of there way to rally together for major changes? I jumped into this argument mainly on the point where you said that times are so desperate that it should "demand change". All I'm trying to do is point out that we're not in that situation.

& if by saying "Sharpton" you mean Al... whew
In 2004 Al Sharpton was the only candidate talking about problems that faced cities. Hell, he was the only candidate really talking about education.

I don't disagree with you when you say,

Only by voting for the people...& yourself, will you influence anything. Plus, as the major parties see the shift each election, you'll find them react by mysteriously 'adopting' a lot of the 3rd party views to win back votes.
I really don't. I just don't like the idea that we need to change dramatically in order to get something accomplished. That these are desperate times and people are doing a disservice to everyone by voting for a major party.
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