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Old 09-03-2008, 01:13 AM   #105
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First off, I think you should have gone with Ellis's post. It was much more entertaining.

Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
For the first part, I've never said America is not without problems. I don't feel as if the problems you pointed out lead to desperate situation. Not one where we need some kind of desperate change. I mean, I could easily add to that list with other problems that America faces, but that isn't the point.

Who said desperate issues, ones that if you look are not singular in nature but domino effect issues tied together, call for "desperate change"?

My posts have always been clear that there is nothing at all being done except the same sheep-like following to the polls to follow who the money people put of front of them. No one, especially me, said to 'storm the castle walls'.

So, we change from the current politics to something else. Maybe these problems subside, but we're always going to have problems. To just list them off doesn't really do a whole lot of good for the point of whether America is generally doing good or bad. I haven't heard one piece of information that would lead me to believe that Americans as a whole don't generally think this is a successful country. I have heard plenty of information about problems that Americans face.
Does your hair have to be on fire for you to smell the smoke?

If you followed my posts, I didn't say that even a 2 party didn't have room for improvement but that the parties aren't being put in a position of making changes, ones promised & never followed thru on or ones that are glossed over & left to the side. Hell, it's just like the levees where we're doing a half-assed fix that will guarantee to bite the public & the economy in the ass in the future. But hey, NOs is not flooded let's not have any vision or use any common sense, right?

I do buy into the things could be worse argument. That doesn't mean that I don't think we should stop moving forward.
That's fine but whenever I hear someone answer a question on any issue with a counterpoint of something good, that's just avoidance since a 'good' doesn't cancel out a 'bad' IMO.

Eh, that's a cop out. I don't think you need to try to deflect from the issues.
I guess that comment must have insulted you cuz it isn't a cop out at all but a possible explanation of why all those issues don't seem to be serious at all. If there's another reason, let me know cuz it's still a curiosity of why that is.

Right, but we're talking about people rising up and saying change this now. My original point is that it's going to be hard to get people to do that when they're still, even if begrudgingly so, under the belief that this is the best place to live.
Rising up?

More like get involved. That problem has been addressed by me before where some are too lazy, some don't know what they can do, & others are insulated from the problems & aren't affected in the least which translates to 'don't care...everything is great'.

Absolutely, but this isn't what we're debating, is it?

You said earlier to CK, "It's not as tho there isn't ever any good in this country's Government," under that premise, if these unacceptable things all occur under the umbrella of still a place where people are going to want to live, what good is radical change in the system? If people generally feel government is ****ed up, but can be good, why are they going to go out of there way to rally together for major changes? I jumped into this argument mainly on the point where you said that times are so desperate that it should "demand change". All I'm trying to do is point out that we're not in that situation.
What's major to you? What's major to me is that voters start using their heads & not be sheep. Demand more from your party you choose. Get heard during occupancy of office where things aren't being done without that fear that it might open the door for the opposing party. Vote for politicians who do things & not just promise. Etc., etc., etc.

That's not too hard, is it?

In 2004 Al Sharpton was the only candidate talking about problems that faced cities. Hell, he was the only candidate really talking about education.
I really don't want to insult you...honestly. I just have such a low opinion of Sharpton & his usual motives that even when the message may be true, the 'messenger' ruins it for me.

I don't disagree with you when you say,

I really don't. I just don't like the idea that we need to change dramatically in order to get something accomplished. That these are desperate times and people are doing a disservice to everyone by voting for a major party.
Then you misunderstood my posts cuz I said even if someone votes major party, just demand they do what you vote them into office to do & accept no excuse if it doesn't get done. That hasn't been done for so long, it's ridiculous.

That's not only 'not radical' or 'not desperate', it should be a rule of thumb with any elected official.

Last edited by Tarkus; 09-03-2008 at 02:44 AM.
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