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Old 08-03-2005, 12:37 AM   #1
doublee
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Default Largest Trade in NBA History

Well, the largest trade in NBA history is going down involving 5 teams and 13 players:

The Heat get Antoine Walker, Jason Williams, Andre Emmett, Robert Duenas, and James Posey.

Utah gets Greg Ostertag from Memphis

Boston gets Curtis Borchardt, Qyntel Woods, two second rounders and cash from Miami, and Albert Miralles

New Orleans gets Rasual Butler and Kirk Snyder

Memphis gets Eddie Jones and Raul Lopez

I said before I think the Heat are taking a gamble bringing in Williams and Walker who have histories of being non-team players.

Memphis getting Jones seems like a good move given that Mike Miller seems to have problems staying healthy.

The rest just seem inconsequential and I am not entirely sure why this was all done as one big trade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2122976
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:01 AM   #2
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I also think that posey will help out the heat. Jerry West does it again by making his team one of the two realitve teams in the deal.
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:02 AM   #3
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Memphis made out...what else is new? I don't think J. Will is as big of a gamble as you are making it out to be doublee. Then again, he was playing in Memphis, not Miami (Sin City East). Sure, he exploded on a reporter, but that's reasonable. Walker played big down the stretch, but he does that every time it is contract year or he is looking elsewhere. Still, his biggest knock has been low FG% on bad shots. He won't even get the ball unless Shaq throws it out for him at the 3pt line when being doubled or Wade kicks it out after penetrating deep and again, being wide open.

Riley said he was going to take a bigger role in the organization. He may have to play shrink this year. Pat either believes he can control J Will and Walker or West pulled one over on him. Kind of a hard situation for me to figure out....can Yoda pull one over on Obi Won?

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Old 08-03-2005, 02:29 AM   #4
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Yoda can pull one over on anyone.
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Old 08-03-2005, 12:12 PM   #5
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What are you guys talking about? West "pulled one" over? Miami just raped the league and has no chance of not coming out of the east next year.

JWill
DWade
Walker
Haslem
Shaq
plus, Zo, Posey, Wayne Simien, Laettner and Shandon Anderson on the bench

JWill and DWade in the open court is going to be homicidal. They will run over everyone. Antoine has always been a good second option and will be an ever better third option. There's no way he'll be putting up as many bad shots as he did with Dallas and Atlanta. Shaq and DWade are the stars and he'll figure this out quickly. And a Jason Williams that doesn't need to even score points will be very dangerous.

Memphis is only getting an even older version of the Eddie Jones who had clearly lost the athletic ability to be the defensive-stopper he's always been. I don't know anything about Lopez, so I'll reserve judgment.

My prediction: Heat over the Spurs in 6
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Old 08-03-2005, 12:42 PM   #6
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right on Jay. the Heat are going to be totally stacked. Memphis is still a first round-and-out team headed nowhere. star power alone is going to put Miami over the Pistons minus Larry Brown. they almost beat them w/ a hurt Wade and hurt Shaq. now they are coming w/ a lot more fire power.

im still big on the Spurs and hopefully they'll make some moves too to tweak the bench so im not sure if the Heat are a total lock, but the forecast is certainly calling for a Spurs/Heat Final.
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Largest Trade in NBA History

Quote:
Originally posted by doublee


I said before I think the Heat are taking a gamble bringing in Williams and Walker who have histories of being non-team players.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2122976
I completely agree. I just posted seconds ago in the Shaq thread that this could bite the Heat in the butt. Here's Marc Stein to back that up.

Still, gaining that kind of depth and the only player of any consequence they lose is Eddie Jones? Not bad. But perhaps completely unnecessary.
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by JayRedd
JWill and DWade in the open court is going to be homicidal. They will run over everyone. Antoine has always been a good second option and will be an ever better third option. There's no way he'll be putting up as many bad shots as he did with Dallas and Atlanta. Shaq and DWade are the stars and he'll figure this out quickly. And a Jason Williams that doesn't need to even score points will be very dangerous.

There's no denying that the talent is there, but a couple things.

1. Antoine flamed out in Dallas because he was playing a supplemental role -- 3rd, 4th, 5th option -- much like he'll be expected to do in Miami where he'll be 3rd banana at best. It remains to be seen whether he can adapt.

2. JWill has a predisposition to try and score. He has a reputation as being wreckless. JWill + Pat Riley bootcamp could equal fireworks (and not the good kind).

3. If the Heat don't resign Damon Jones, they lose the 3 point threat. Williams was a lousy 31% from 3 last year. I am not convinced that he is the right backcourt compliment to Wade.

Again, it looks good on the surface, but this is a big experiment and Miami may have blown up a contending team when they only needed to add one piece. We shall see. They're prohibitive favorites now, but until I see them gelling as a unit, I'm not ready just yet to hand them the Eastern Conference over Detroit and Indiana.
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Old 08-03-2005, 03:08 PM   #9
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The Spurs bench did all the tweaking it needed earlier this week when they signed Fabricio Oberto. They might need to either resign Devon Brown or trade him, but either way, the bench will be just fine.

I fail to see how the Heat are "stacked." They lost Eddie Jones, who provided 13 ppg, 5 rpg, and 3 apg, not to mention the intangible veteran leadership. Heck, as a 2-guard, he averaged only 2 assists a game fewer than Jason Williams. They lost Rasoul Butler, who brought a nice spark off the bench. They are very likely losing Damon Jones, and they'll need his outside shot off the bench.

How everyone hasn't seen right through Antoine Walker and his Me First M.O. yet, I don't know. He whined in Boston, where he was the man for awhile. He whined in Dallas because he was the third or fourth option. He whined in Atlanta because they weren't winning. He whined in Boston again because Paul Pierce was the man, and not him. Why is yet another change of scenery suddenly going to make 'Toine a team guy?

And before anyone starts conceding the East to Miami, let's keep this in mind - the Detroit Pistons have won that conference two consecutive years and have the same players. It's not as if Larry Brown leaving is going to make them forget how to play hardnosed basketball. And the Pacers won 60-some games in 2004 when they were a whole unit. They've got Artest back and two very nice rookies in Sarunas Jasikevicius and Danny Granger.

The Heat will still be a very good team - any team with Shaquille O'Neal is going to be good. And Dwayne Wade is the hottest young star in the league not named LeBron. But they've got a lot of adjusting to do, and a very tough conference to face. Winning the East isn't going to be easy, and it's certainly not guaranteed.
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Old 08-03-2005, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by #99
Antoine flamed out in Dallas because he was playing a supplemental role -- 3rd, 4th, 5th option -- much like he'll be expected to do in Miami where he'll be 3rd banana at best. It remains to be seen whether he can adapt.
I don't think Toine will have the same demeanor in Miami. In Dallas, he legitimately probably thought he was the best player on that team--or at least co #1 with Dirk. In going to Miami, he clearly understands that he is the 3rd option from before the time he ever arrives there. Not even a high-ego guy like Walker will try to step on Shaq and DWade's toes. He knows where the ball should go in crunchtime and he's an underrated ball-handler and leader that will make sure Shaq gets the ball in the post. In his best days during both stints in Boston, he did the same thing. When they needed a bucket, he got the ball to Paul Pierce. I've watched him play a lot of Celtics games and his rep for firing up bad shots (which is very deserved) was mostly earned in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. He's a savvy guy that knows how to win and in Miami, I'm confident he knows that that means getting the ball to Shaq and staying out of DWade's way.

Plus, Damon Jones is easilly replacable. He brought nothing to the table except the ability to make the open three. It's not a coincidence that in his first 6 seasons in the league, he never once shot over 37% from behind the arc. It's because the collapsing D that has to deal with Shaq leaves open threes for someone. Why do you think Derrick Fisher and a 40-year-old Brian Shaw used to look like good players too? Anyone, including Antoine or any other marginal shooting guard they trade for, can knock down the open threes that Damon Jones used to. Plus Walker brings another post presence to the weakside, which will give Shaq at least 2 extra offensive boards per game.
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Old 08-03-2005, 07:38 PM   #11
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The biggest problem I see with who Miami acquired is who is going to play defense? We've all seen this in Phoenix, Dallas, and Sacramento before them. J-Will and 'Toine are greedy scorers, not championship defenders. I can already see Shaq's glare at J-Will when he jacks up ill-advised three after three. I don't know about this. The Heat were so close without any of these guys and arguably could have gone farther if they were healthy, so this is a gamble, but one that looks good on paper.
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Old 08-03-2005, 07:52 PM   #12
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This reminds me of two summers ago when Dallas acquired 'Toine and 'Tawn. They were supposed to win Earth, and ended up being mediocre, with internal attitude problems and an inability to play defense.
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Old 08-03-2005, 09:32 PM   #13
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Marc brings up a good point about the defensive side of the ball. Williams and Walker are both very lazy defenders and Shaq is not the defender he used to be. Nenad Kristic of all people gave him fits in the playoffs. They will take a hit defensively with Eddie Jones and Rasual Butler playing elsewhere.

They lose something from the perimeter with Williams and Walker being chuckers and Jones and Jones being solid perimeter shooters.

This move by the Heat will either make or break them. It will either be the final pieces that put them over the top or Williams and Walker will wreak havoc with the chemistry and the Heat will flounder.
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Old 08-03-2005, 11:04 PM   #14
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Anyone consider the chance that Riley isn't done dealing yet? Posey is known for his defense and can hit the 3 at a decent clip. How's this...

Shaq
Haslem
Posey
Anderson
Wade

Zo
Laettner
Simien
and whoever they can get for Walker and JWill (possibly another starter at the 2)

I've been trying to put this in perspective all day, putting a spin on Riley getting these two. I can't see JWill and Wade in the game at the same time. I can't even see JWill in the game with Shaq either.

Anyone consider the fact that Jones once thrived under West in L.A. before Kobe took over? He was close to 20 ppg and shooting near 50% if memory serves. Eddie has a rep for being sensitive and needing the proper mental soothing. West has always had a sign reading "The doctor is in" on his door. Jones will do well in Memphis, provided his age hasn't passed him by.
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Old 08-04-2005, 12:36 AM   #15
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Actually, it was the opposite for Eddie Jones his career did not really start to take off until he left L. A. His career-high in scoring with the Lakers was 17.2 ppg. Prior to last year he scored more than 17.2 ppg every season he was not in LA with a career-high of 20 ppg coming during his first full season in Charlotte. His shooting percentages dropped somewhat, which was likely due to the fact he went from having Shaq in the low post to Derrick Coleman and Elden Campbell who did not command as much attention as Shaq did and the fact that he was now the featured scorer in Charlotte, most of his other numbers increased except for steals. He was a quality player for the Lakers but it is not as if his play suffered significantly after he moved on to Charlotte.

From everything I have been reading the whole point of getting a starting PG is so Wade can slide over and play more of the two spot.

I believe Anderson is a free agent and am not really sure why anyone would want him as anything more than a bench guy.
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