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Old 10-16-2006, 06:08 PM   #1
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Default B(C)S talk 2006

Right now, it's Ohio State #1 and USC #2. As I'm sure most people here would be quick to agree, USC is in major trouble. If current form continues, there's no way they get through the upcoming three-game stretch of Oregon, Cal, and Notre Dame without at least one loss (my money is on Cal to do the deed).

Auburn ahead of WVU (weak Mountaineer schedule or not) is yet ANOTHER strike against the B(C)S. Auburn still lost to an opponent that USC hung 50 points on. It'll be forgotten, unfortunately, b/c that USC win over Arkansas happened in week 1.

My top five, for argument's sake:
1. Ohio State
2. Michigan
3. USC
4. West Virginia
5. Texas (their only loss was a toughy to Ohio State and they're still untouchable in the Big 12 -- though that conference sucks, too)

It's a safe -- but not guaranteed -- bet that Ohio State/Michigan will claim one spot in the national title game, should they both be unbeaten when they meet at the end of the season. With USC looking wobbly at the moment, if they pick up a loss and WVU runs the table... crappy Big East (I mean, it's a lousy football conference) or not, Mountaineers should be the other half of that title game. This would, once again, open the current system up to scrutiny and ridicule, given that about half the teams in the current top ten would likely be favored against WVU.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:19 PM   #2
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I don't see how this is a problem created by the BCS. I too am assuming a USC loss comming up, which if that happens, means that the winner of UM/OSU will probably play the winner of Louisville/WVA. If that happens...I don't see the problem. One loss teams are always so quick to complain...well, this isn't the NFL...this is NCAA football...if you loose, you are probably not the best team in the country that year. Maybe WVA wouldn't deserve to be in the game, and would get creemed by UM or OSU...maybe, but we don't know for sure how good they are because they would not have lost. They wouldn't have made a mistake to cost themselves.

Fact is, Texas is not the best team in the country...that has already been established...on their home field no less.

Either is Auburn...I think Arkansas did a pretty good job of proving that.

Notre Dame? You must be joking.

Florida? Not a chance. They were given about 150 opportunities to win that game with Auburn and squandered them all. They are too sloppy, overly penalized, and are not good enough yet...next year with Tebow, who knows? Maybe if they stop with the personal fouls and holding calls every play to give that horrible Auburn offense new life. This is not the year for them, however. I exepect them to loose again.

So who does that leave us with? Obviously the only two teams who no one is sure about...WVU and Louisville. Either one of them undefeated should make it in before a one loss team who has already proven they don't belong. The point of this whole system is to settle controvery when voters aren't sure who is better (i.e. Michigan and Nebraska in '97) not to give teams new life when they already FAILED to play high caliber football each and every week. You are never guaranteed a second chance in college football, but I would like to see undefeated teams get ONE chance.
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:22 PM   #3
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I agree 100% with you, Ricky. I'm all for an all-undefeated national championship game, even if one of those teams does happen to come out of the Big East.

Just to clarify -- and this is not necessarily "my gripe" per se -- but there will definitely be those calling for a playoff, even if this comes to pass. If West Virginia makes the nat'l title game as an unbeaten, I think it'd be great and a rare example of the current formula working. But to say that they were tested as much as some SEC, Pac 10, or Big Ten teams competing for the same spot would be erroneous.
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Old 10-18-2006, 02:41 PM   #4
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Tested or not doesn't make them any worse than Auburn, 99.

Georgia (who's unredeemingly and incredibly poorly prepared week to week) thought so little of WVU last January that they got their hats handed to them. While I doubt Tressel or Carroll would permit such a thing to happen to his team, there's no guaranteeing it, and besides... who says an undefeated WVU isn't better than USC or OSU anyway?

The only reason I'd ever support a playoff, btw, is so that the talking heads would shut up about the Big East sucking so much. Where's the Pac 10 this year? Where's the AC-bleeping-C? The Big 12 stinks out loud, sans Texas and OU (and maybe including Missouri, but absolutely no one else is in the conversation--yes, even Nebraska). And I don't carry that much respect for the SEC around in my pocket, either. I'd love a playoff that ended in a title game pitting WVU and Louisville for a couple years in a row. I'd absolutely LOVE it.

(But, I don't want a playoff.)
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:02 PM   #5
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Then don't talk about them Dave lol.
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Old 10-18-2006, 03:43 PM   #6
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Sorry, Dave, but I just had to talk about it

I admit, I'm a playoffs advocate. Louisville may very well be the best team in the world, but what we're talking about here is effectively treating the regular season -- from day one -- as the playoffs. That spells inequality. Such is college football.

Let me just ask, suppose a great team like Cal wins out (that'd include beating USC on the road) and there's only one unbeaten left at season's end. Why is Cal's argument to play in the nat'l title game any less valid than an Auburn or a Texas or potentially an Ohio State or West Virginia? It's not.
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Old 10-18-2006, 04:11 PM   #7
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So you're saying an 11-1 Cal team has the same right to play in the NC game as an undefeated Ohio State or West Virginia?
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:04 PM   #8
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No, read it again. I'm saying that in a hypothetical situation, at season's end, if only one team was unbeaten, that there would be a host of 1-loss teams that would have legit claims to play in that game.
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:46 PM   #9
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I don't see it happening. Either West Virginia or Louisville should be undefeated, saving us from that potential mess of trying to figure out which 1-loss team deserves to be in.
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:48 PM   #10
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Always reserving the right to be proven wrong, Cal, imo, is the best one-loss team in the land. With the possible exception of Tennessee...
That said, Cal lost their right to beat Tennessee to a NC game by losing to Tennessee. I'm not sure Tennessee finishes with one loss, but...
for argument's sake, say WVU beats UofL but loses to Rutgers, who in turn loses to U of L, leaving the Big East in a 3-way tie of once-beatens...
I'd prefer to see Tennessee take on undefeated OSU than Cal, based solely on that one game.

What's been left out of the discussion here, and I'm surprised by its omission, honestly, is this:
What if UofM goes to the horseshoe and wins by a single point?
Assume Cal wins out. Assume that everyone who can win out, does. (WVU, for my sake, that is).

Who goes to the NC game?
Right now, there's a fairly strong suggestion, numerically, that the NC game could be an OSU-Michigan rematch. The top three currently have such a strong lead, getting any other team into that top 3 will be quite a feat. A narrow margin of victory by who will at that point likely be the BCS #1&2 might keep both alive in the BCS polls...

Personally, I think that they may be the top two teams in the land, and I wouldn't be all that put out by being left out of that NC game (I'd be pissed, but I'd also kinda understand; I'm not an idiot. WVU hasn't beaten anyone yet. Still have UofL and undefeated Rutgers, as well a one-loss Pitt to play, so much moving up can be done between now and then.)
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:20 PM   #11
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Excellent points. Huzzah! The topic is alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountaineerDave View Post
Always reserving the right to be proven wrong, Cal, imo, is the best one-loss team in the land. With the possible exception of Tennessee...
That said, Cal lost their right to beat Tennessee to a NC game by losing to Tennessee. I'm not sure Tennessee finishes with one loss, but...
for argument's sake, say WVU beats UofL but loses to Rutgers, who in turn loses to U of L, leaving the Big East in a 3-way tie of once-beatens...
I'd prefer to see Tennessee take on undefeated OSU than Cal, based solely on that one game.
I completely buy that. I think head-to-head should be a big factor. The question then, however, becomes who's loss is more significant (assuming, for the sake of argument, all teams win out). For example, Tennessee falling to Florida or Texas falling to Ohio State? Or, heck, the losers of the OSU/Mich, WVU/L'ville games?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MountaineerDave View Post
What's been left out of the discussion here, and I'm surprised by its omission, honestly, is this:
What if UofM goes to the horseshoe and wins by a single point?
Assume Cal wins out. Assume that everyone who can win out, does. (WVU, for my sake, that is).

Who goes to the NC game?
Right now, there's a fairly strong suggestion, numerically, that the NC game could be an OSU-Michigan rematch. The top three currently have such a strong lead, getting any other team into that top 3 will be quite a feat. A narrow margin of victory by who will at that point likely be the BCS #1&2 might keep both alive in the BCS polls...

Personally, I think that they may be the top two teams in the land, and I wouldn't be all that put out by being left out of that NC game (I'd be pissed, but I'd also kinda understand; I'm not an idiot. WVU hasn't beaten anyone yet. Still have UofL and undefeated Rutgers, as well a one-loss Pitt to play, so much moving up can be done between now and then.)
This is a strong argument for the B(C)S poll, but if I were a WVU fan in that situation, I'd be absolutely livid. Michigan would have proven
on the field that it can beat Ohio State. Ultimately, that's the one method we'd all like to see used when determining the two NC game representatives -- head-to-head competition.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:31 PM   #12
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How is this even a debate? If there are 2 unbeatens...they go. If there is one unbeaten...they go and if there is a one-loss team that had their lone loss to the unbeaten...they should go for the rematch.

Let's say...
One unbeaten: Ohio State
One-loss teams: Michigan, Cal, WVU, Louisville, Tennessee, Texas

Michigan and Texas lost to Ohio State. Michigan lost on the road, Texas at home...easy...Ohio State vs. Michigan again.

Let's say...
One unbeaten: Michigan
One-loss teams: USC, WVU, Ohio State, Louisville, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin

Wisconsin and Ohio State lost to Michigan. Wisconsin lost on the road, OSU lost at home...easy...Michigan vs. Wisconsin again.

Now that is the fair way...I don't see how that can be argued. I hate it and would jump off a cliff if OSU and Blue played again...just saying.

Don't mind me though...I still have hope we finish undefeated and somehow go down to #3 in the BCS so we can go to the Rose Bowl. I don't want to play in that spaceship out in the desert for the 4th time in 5 years.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:29 PM   #13
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If that's the case, then why would Michigan (assuming both WVU and L'ville have losses) even bother playing the regular season finale if it amounts to nothing more than an exhibition game? The point is that they already played each other.
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Old 10-19-2006, 02:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #99 View Post
If that's the case, then why would Michigan (assuming both WVU and L'ville have losses) even bother playing the regular season finale if it amounts to nothing more than an exhibition game? The point is that they already played each other.
Well...that's why the BCS is a sham and so are playoffs.

What you guys fail to understand is that if Ohio State was the lone unbeaten and several teams had one loss (Michigan, Cal, Tennessee, Texas, Auburn, Wisconsin for example), the Wolverines would be the only team that could honestly claim they too would be undefeated if they didn't have to play OSU in the regular season.

So let's say Ohio State beats Michigan and they put Auburn vs. the Buckeyes in the title game. Both Auburn and Michigan lost one game but Auburn has a shot at the national title despite losing to a weaker opponent than Michigan in the regular season.

How is that fair?
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Old 10-19-2006, 03:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
Well...that's why the BCS is a sham and so are playoffs.

What you guys fail to understand is that if Ohio State was the lone unbeaten and several teams had one loss (Michigan, Cal, Tennessee, Texas, Auburn, Wisconsin for example), the Wolverines would be the only team that could honestly claim they too would be undefeated if they didn't have to play OSU in the regular season.

So let's say Ohio State beats Michigan and they put Auburn vs. the Buckeyes in the title game. Both Auburn and Michigan lost one game but Auburn has a shot at the national title despite losing to a weaker opponent than Michigan in the regular season.

How is that fair?
It's fair because there is tangible proof on the field that Ohio State is better than Michigan. They've had their shot. Unless that regular season finale is suddenly recognized as the national championship game and the season ends after that, it's pointless to have the rematch. Suppose Michigan does beat Ohio State in the rematch, what then? Michigan is unquestionably the best team in the land? I don't think so.

But it's the first sentence in your post that strikes me, Buckeye. If you're not a fan of either the B(C)S or playoffs, then... what are you for? A return to the polls???
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