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Old 06-21-2006, 01:07 AM   #136
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Think they got lucky getting by the Spurs?
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:10 AM   #137
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I agree tray. I actually praised you earlier when you said this was still a series after Miami fell down 2-0.

I wonder if that mindset you talked about had anything to do with the way young head coach Avery Johnson handled the Game 5 press conference. Not to mention the antics of Mark Booban.

Misc. note: anyone surprised with the FT difference, esp. early on tonight? I don't understand how you come back home after what just went down in Miami and NOT attack, attack, attack. I guess that's the "old Mavs" coming back out.
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:14 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
Ya know Tark, I got Haslem as my #2 key guy in this series. His defense on Dirk (esp. at home) was more than you could ask for. He got dirty (the early shoulder injury) and provided enough inside baskets (esp. late tonight) as well as outside shots to help spread the floor.
Yea, he's like an offensive lineman in football. No glory but couldn't get it done without him.

Quote:
It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming days as we get wind of what Riley did in pregame and during the game itself so we can digest how he got Zo and Haslem in that mindset.

Just think Tark, you mentioned that the game might have passed Riley by earlier and I didn't necessarily argue with you. He'll forgive us though. He realizes we are mere mortals and he is God.
:lol:

Yea, if PJ is the Zen Master, Riles must be God. All the while wondering why Riley was not reacting & it shows that he was in a constant battle to get today's athletes in the zone. & man o' man, did he ever. How he got this team to rise to this level of play is one for the ages. I never once got the feeling that Miami wouldn't be there till the end tonight.

Masterful....


Quote:
MY GOD...RILEY IS TALKING ABOUT GAME 5 OF THE 85 FINALS! Someone call 9-1-1 if I pass out. I'm on cloud nine. Nothing I write here can be used against me. I've got temporary Shaq/Riley insanity!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:15 AM   #139
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yep.. Mavs settling for jumpers while the Heat took it inside strong..
but you also gotta give it to Miami for playing some respectable defense!
What was it, 10 blocks tonight? and they average 2? That says alot.
Maybe that's why Dallas was afraid to go inside as much. Shaq and Zo are pretty intimidating!
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:23 AM   #140
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Hey, Magic Johnson is on Jimmy Kimmel Live tonight. Just saw the preview. Kimmel is bustin' Magic's chops on the Kobe/Shaq feud.

Just think, we have all summer to talk about that angle.

And talk about it we will, but for now...let the champagne flow!
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:38 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
Hey, Magic Johnson is on Jimmy Kimmel Live tonight. Just saw the preview. Kimmel is bustin' Magic's chops on the Kobe/Shaq feud.

Just think, we have all summer to talk about that angle.

And talk about it we will, but for now...let the champagne flow!
Kimmel can be a pretty funny guy...just like the "hack-A-Shaq" toy earlier...

& you better check on if the Laker decision to give away a Title is an appropriate subject on here. :lol:
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:44 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

& you better check on if the Laker decision to give away a Title is an appropriate subject on here. :lol:
Right, because Shaq did it all by himself there in Miami, and he coulda done it all by himself back in LA! :lol: that's pretty funny....
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Old 06-21-2006, 03:23 AM   #143
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My new favorite stat (easy Tark...this is a goody...LOL)

Players who won a regular season MVP that were traded/signed with another squad after they accomplished the feat and how many rings they won with their new team...

Oscar Robertson...from Royals to Bucks...won 1 ring
Kareem A.-Jabbar...from Bucks to Lakers...won 5 rings
Wilt Chamberlain...from Sixers to Lakers...won 1 ring
Bob McAdoo...from Braves to Lakers (eventually)...won 2 rings
Bill Walton...from Blazers to Celtics (eventually)...won 1 ring
Moses Malone...from Rockets to Sixers...won 1 ring
Charles Barkley...from Suns to Rockets
Karl Malone...from Jazz to Lakers...went to Finals
Shaquille O'Neal...from Lakers to Heat...won 1 ring (so far)

We used to get the goods, now we give 'em away! LOL

Total number of titles the above men won after leaving original team...12
Total number of titles the franchise who let them go won after they left...3 (which is amazing because that is MANY more total seasons than those former MVPs ever played after they left)

Ouch...looks like lettin' these guys go has historically been a big mistake. Never really noticed it before because I always ended up on the better side of things.

Can't wait til October though and opening night. Let me set the scene...

In Miami: pictures flashing as the banner rises to the rafters

In L.A.: the Lakers officially rename their franchise the "Los Angeles Bucks" aka "Bucks West"

BTW Tark...like my new sig? Got a nice ring to it, don't it? Get it...I said "ring."

LOL...LOL...LOL...I kill myself (might have to if I continue to be a Laker fan).

Last edited by buckeyefan78; 06-21-2006 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:53 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted By Tarkus
Besides this boards lack of posting & interest in the most important series of the NBA season, these performances are perfect examples of the lack of interest...
I interpreted this comment to mean the "lack of a quality product" on the floor in the NBA Finals this year was turning those of us away from posting on the boards. So I go on to blame the NBA's terrible scheduling for the playoffs as a reason that has turned some of us away from deciding whether or not to post during the series.

Maybe not the exact reason, but a plausible one.


Quote:
Originally Posted By Tarkus
This almost sounds like you're defending the board's lack of posting. I'm not denigrating anyone for their disinterest regardless what reason they have i.e. don't care, too busy, quality sucks, on vacation, etc.
Yet, you did decide to denigrate me for even suggesting that the board's lack of posting has come from the poor NBA scheduling for the playoffs.


Quote:
Originally Posted By Tarkus
I just don't buy into the spread out schedule as being the reason. More like the quality of the product today's fans wants is lacking.
I responded by saying the product today's NBA fan wants is out on the floor in this series by pointing out that "television ratings for the NBA Finals went up 13 percent for ABC for the first two games of this year's series when compared to the ratings for last year's championship series between San Antonio and Detroit."

Then you decide to make things personal, attacking the fact that I choose to support an arguement by posting statistical information, and calling my research and fact-finding "frivolous." Furthermore, you attack my age and unfairly call me a "casual" fan who doesn't understand what quality basketball is.


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Originally Posted By Tarkus
Yea, keep those stats, comin'...

They sure help out the argument that the quality is there for basketball fans....

It's still pretty amazing tho that you quote ratings & then say it's cuz of quality. Just how do they know that??
I quote the ratings for no other reason other than to prove to you that the fans are more interested in this year's series.

I know you find research to be "frivolous," but if you don't mind, I would appreciate it if you went back and showed me the post where I stated this year's NBA Finals exemplified quality basketball.

It can't be done.

If you did some "frivolous" research, you would notice that I posted earlier in the thread that this "has been one of the worst NBA Finals in history. So much so that...I am not too intrigued about how the rest of the series might play out."

But I also pointed out that the "quality of product today's fan wants is not lacking. It is on the floor in this series." This was further highlighted by Sue and Shawn who said they were more interested in this year's finals because they wanted to see Shaq, they wanted to see Wade, they wanted to see Cuban.

They were interested in the product, not neccessarily a flawless, well-played "quality" basketball game.

But, then again, you also mentioned that Shawn and Sue (not by name) "aren't basketball fans" because of this stance.


Quote:
Originally Posted By buckeyfan78
will you please tell us without stats why the NBA Finals are back?
Like I mentioned above buckeye, this "has been one of the worst NBA Finals in history."
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:46 PM   #145
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Buckeye, I was just curious.. regarding your new signature..
Do you really feel that the Lakers with Shaq and without Kobe would have done any better than they did with Kobe and without Shaq?
Also bare in mind that Shaq became motivated to get back in shape after the trade and after Riley, so to be fair you would have to imagine Shaq + 50 lbs again.... or perhaps try imagining the Miami Heat without their MVP Dwyane Wade....
I mean I know you love ripping on the Lakers, I just don't think it's a fair argument, but maybe I'm missing something...
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Old 06-21-2006, 02:07 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus

Sue, this wasn't any condemnation about casual fans. On nothing but basketball points, this has been an ugly Finals. Now those stats are there for the taking. I apologize if you took offense...
Thanks Tark, honestly, no offense taken...

Even though I had money riding on the Mavs to win it all, I was glad to see Shaq and Riley collect another ring (especially Riley - 18 years between championships and enduring the grind in NY, he paid his penance there for sure!!! )

Agree with Buckeye, loved the post-game interview Riley gave. Then watched the interview he had with Stephen "A. is for A**hole" Smith. I really wished Riley would've stood up and said "WHO OUTCOACHED WHOM!!!" after Smith made the comments after game two that Johnson was outcoaching Riley (I guess you could say he was, at that point)
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Old 06-21-2006, 07:07 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawndo
Buckeye, I was just curious.. regarding your new signature..
Do you really feel that the Lakers with Shaq and without Kobe would have done any better than they did with Kobe and without Shaq?
Also bare in mind that Shaq became motivated to get back in shape after the trade and after Riley, so to be fair you would have to imagine Shaq + 50 lbs again.... or perhaps try imagining the Miami Heat without their MVP Dwyane Wade....
I mean I know you love ripping on the Lakers, I just don't think it's a fair argument, but maybe I'm missing something...
Let me gather my bearings Shawn. I'm going to set up a point by point thread in the near future for you and toby complete with Q&A to try and help you guys see the light.

My back hurts from carrying the legend of Bob Pettit all these years. When I'm dead, someone is going to have know something to pass on.
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:06 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawndo
Think they got lucky getting by the Spurs?
Actually Shawn, I think they just beat the Spurs because they forced them to play a certain way and Avery outcoached Pop. A few favorable calls here and there and dallas was strong to win a game 7 on the road. In the finals they just were not the same team.
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:21 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78
I agree tray. I actually praised you earlier when you said this was still a series after Miami fell down 2-0.

I wonder if that mindset you talked about had anything to do with the way young head coach Avery Johnson handled the Game 5 press conference. Not to mention the antics of Mark Booban.
Yeah Buck.......I thought Miami would find a way to win it behind Riley's coaching, and I felt the Mavs would go soft again but I never expected all the whining and moaning.
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Old 06-21-2006, 09:35 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobynosker
I interpreted this comment to mean the "lack of a quality product" on the floor in the NBA Finals this year was turning those of us away from posting on the boards. So I go on to blame the NBA's terrible scheduling for the playoffs as a reason that has turned some of us away from deciding whether or not to post during the series.

Maybe not the exact reason, but a plausible one.
There's where it goes wrong...

If you had spent any time on this thread, you would have known I was referring to the play which at the time was atrocious by basketball standards. Diving in with an assumption than an out & out question made your post very confusing. If you chose to read my whole post, you would have seen my interpretation, due to the it being 95% about the league marketing, the fans obvious reactions using your ratings stat, & the harm it has done the style of basketball that's being played by most of the league's players.

This isn't my own pet theory but one that has been held by an abundance of NBA analysts, former greats, coaches, etc. I didn't make this up...


Quote:
Yet, you did decide to denigrate me for even suggesting that the board's lack of posting has come from the poor NBA scheduling for the playoffs.
I'm not going to go into detail about your feelings, Toby. My comment about your age was based on the fact that this isn't the first time you've participated in denigrating a contrary opinion based on facts, NBA stats & history with a blanket "It's 20 years ago!" type response. If you didn't like the tone, the fact remains it ended with the idea if you researched the stats, since you weren't around to see them first hand (fact whether you like it or not.), you might, no actually would agree with that point of view since you rely on stats so much.

If you call that denigrating, it is what it is. I might add that posting in the Finals thread where active discussion has been going on series long with a stat argument is sorely misplaced. Also the tone of "Excuse me if I don't jump on the fans are turned off by the product bandwagon, because the interest in this series is there among fans." has an unappealing tone in itself...

& I'm not a seer like you apparently are. I have no idea why our members aren't posting. I pointed that out if you took the time to refer to that. You, on the other hand choose not only to speak for them but to add a defense to an attack that never took place...



Quote:
I responded by saying the product today's NBA fan wants is out on the floor in this series by pointing out that "television ratings for the NBA Finals went up 13 percent for ABC for the first two games of this year's series when compared to the ratings for last year's championship series between San Antonio and Detroit."
Which makes your post to me even more suspect since a modest rise shows nothing & has no value as a rebuttal to anything I've posted. I never talked about anything but a league wide, TV wide trend that plagues basketball, nothing more. Bringing up the 13% ratings increase explains nor rebutts anything on the subject. The #s, since you bring it up, are still horrid & way down despite a slight rise. Where is the use in this stat??

Quote:
Then you decide to make things personal, attacking the fact that I choose to support an arguement by posting statistical information, and calling my research and fact-finding "frivolous." Furthermore, you attack my age and unfairly call me a "casual" fan who doesn't understand what quality basketball is.
I posted that I found those stats frivolous in the posting from you. It's obvious that you found worth but to this moment, I still find those stats useless & still wonder why you attempted to steer the conversation into a "stats win all" contest.

C'mon...attack your age?? Referring to the fact that you grab a stat or 2 do argue a point doesn't tell the story. You need to do more research if you want to make your point. Buckeye actually did complete layout of the whole ratings which tells a different take on stats. Cuz you argue only from a stat sheet & not anything else like the experience of being there, finding reports & stories to explain some of those stats makes my reference that you needed to do more homework cuz you weren't old enough nothing but fact.


Quote:
I quote the ratings for no other reason other than to prove to you that the fans are more interested in this year's series.
You make that sound so simple. If you just pointed that out, we would have been trading ideas. Instead you used those ratings as a reason why "jumping on the banwagon" was premature.

Quote:
I know you find research to be "frivolous," but if you don't mind, I would appreciate it if you went back and showed me the post where I stated this year's NBA Finals exemplified quality basketball.

It can't be done.
Well, I see you're trying to distance yourself from your post by adding "exemplified" but the fact remains, misinterpreting my post or not, you started a thread on what you believed fans wanted tho how you can speak for them or the rest of the board is still beyond me.

Quote:
If you did some "frivolous" research, you would notice that I posted earlier in the thread that this "has been one of the worst NBA Finals in history. So much so that...I am not too intrigued about how the rest of the series might play out."
Which begs the most important question....

Why, since you've stated that in past posts & obviously agree with what my point was about the quality of the game today, did you choose to use hollow stats to drum up an argument????


Quote:
But I also pointed out that the "quality of product today's fan wants is not lacking. It is on the floor in this series." This was further highlighted by Sue and Shawn who said they were more interested in this year's finals because they wanted to see Shaq, they wanted to see Wade, they wanted to see Cuban.
& I posted that what today's fan wants is different than what the game of basketball evolved from. I have a right to that opinion & nowhere did I say that if a any fan wanted something different that they weren't basketball fans. The truth is tho that I can talk basketball thru strategies, zones, offensive sets, adjustments, etc. That doesn't make me better or a better fan but I definitely expect more from the game itself.

You trying to pit me against a couple members is just plain trolling & creating more drama. You guys that jumped all over Buckeye recently for stating his basketball views & saying he wasn't a fan is exactly what's transpiring here. The only difference is Buckeye has more patience...


Quote:
They were interested in the product, not neccessarily a flawless, well-played "quality" basketball game.
Which was never disputed nor implied. I apologized to Sue in case she misunderstood & her response was eloquent & understanding. Why you & Shawn choose to be mob oriented is just a shame.

Quote:
But, then again, you also mentioned that Shawn and Sue (not by name) "aren't basketball fans" because of this stance.
Once again, explained in my posts. Basketball fans who analyse games, not basketball fans who found enjoyment anywhere else on the court. 1 can & does exist with the other. Trying to make it seem otherwise is trumpeting a lie & trolling for chaos...

I've been on these boards for quite awhile & I think, at best, I've truly heatedly argued with only 1 other poster that has been here thru-out. Now Shawn has decided to champion your cause & hurt feelings in an effort to ban me. If Marc decides I'm "bad for business", so be it. But I'm not gonna address this BS anymore with you & regardless of the fact that elsewhere on this board are some mighty vicious, hurtful, & nasty comments in threads, the idea that I'm the bad guy has me in awe...truly in awe...

& while we both were "warned", somehow you continue this charade unopposed & unchecked to the point of being egged on for more by Shawn while when I answer, I'm deemed the repeat offender. I wonder why that is???....

So drop it, get over it, or if I'm banned, revel in it. It's not worth my time anymore...
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