Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Community Discussion > The Lounge > Politics & Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2008, 10:16 AM   #196
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

And if Obama wins, issue #1 is helping those homeless people that gave him the election.

Right?

What a disgusting scumbag. This is perhaps the lowest thing done in this campaign by either side thus far...

and that's saying something.
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 11:14 AM   #197
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyefan78 View Post
And if Obama wins, issue #1 is helping those homeless people that gave him the election.

Right?

What a disgusting scumbag. This is perhaps the lowest thing done in this campaign by either side thus far...

and that's saying something.
Jesus Christ... give me a break.

First of all, do you really think Barack Obama is behind this "strategy?" No, it is his campaign. Sure, he is in charge of those people, but get real.

Secondly, what makes you think these homeless people aren't greatful for the assistance?

For someone who is such an advocate for the "poor," I'm shocked that you would be opposed to helping them vote.

There's no stipulation that they have to vote for Obama. They are not being forced to vote. They are not being coerced into anything.

The republicans would do the same thing if they thought it would help them.

Yes buck, helping homeless people vote is much more disgusting than disenfranchising millions of people based on the color of their skin or economic status...

As for "helping" these homeless people... I guess you've already forgotten about the thousands of homeless people he put to work and into housing as a community organizer in Chicago... Obama has done more to help these people than all the people who post on this site have done collectively in their lives.

Your oppisition to the party system has prevented you from seeing anything objectively. Your blind oppisition is just as bad as the blind loyalty you rail against daily.

The idea that Barack Obama isn't a better representative than John McCain for the homeless is patently false.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 12:51 PM   #198
doublee
Sports Virtuoso
 
doublee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 11,138
doublee will become famous soon enoughdoublee will become famous soon enough
Default

The McCain camp is complaining about the moderator for tonight's debate:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...politico/14207

Does a moderator really influence a debate that much? As near as I can tell they just read the questions off of the note cards in front of them and keep the process moving along.
__________________
Can I get an Amen from the bobbleheads?
Hey I said pass the ketchup! I'm eatin' salad here!
Oooh, there is so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.
You SU-DIDDILY-UCK Flanders!!
doublee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 01:22 PM   #199
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublee View Post
The McCain camp is complaining about the moderator for tonight's debate:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/200...politico/14207

Does a moderator really influence a debate that much? As near as I can tell they just read the questions off of the note cards in front of them and keep the process moving along.
They are getting deperate. They also claim Obama is trying to "Steal" the election in Ohio...

:lol:

How ironic...

Sean Hannity had Kenneth Blackwell, former secretary of state in Ohio, arguing that Obama is going to steal the election in Ohio. I don't think I could have laughed any harder. Ken Blackwell, the man who was the subject of various accusations of misconduct during the 2000 election, is now calling out the other party for trying to steal elections.

I can't blame them, this thing is over, barring any major development or mistake by Obama.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 06:41 PM   #200
buckeyefan78
Happy Land
 
buckeyefan78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,864
buckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the roughbuckeyefan78 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Jesus Christ... give me a break.

First of all, do you really think Barack Obama is behind this "strategy?" No, it is his campaign. Sure, he is in charge of those people, but get real.
And when you complain that folks like me and Tarkus (sorry to drag ya in sir ) treat you like a child...don't cry to me over it. The BUCK (no pun intended) stops with the head cheese. Just because you vote blindly and choose to live in a world with no accountability doesn't mean I will or accept your terms. It's his campaign, his call...PERIOD. When you act like a child...I'll chide you as one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Secondly, what makes you think these homeless people aren't greatful for the assistance?
What assistance? Where? They dug 'em up after changing the law allowing same day registration -voting. They are pawns...nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
For someone who is such an advocate for the "poor," I'm shocked that you would be opposed to helping them vote.
If you keep this up, I'm going to need the names of the professors at OU who let you off the hook with this nonsense. Democracy is an education-based proposal. An informed, free-willed voting public is a necessity...not a hope. I'm for the poor being assimilated into society...not just when it is convenient for political gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
There's no stipulation that they have to vote for Obama. They are not being forced to vote. They are not being coerced into anything.
Sorry, my sources tell me improptu polling is occuring before they load 'em up on the bus. Since when do the poor have to answer a poll before they go to the polls? Every America has the right of privacy in their vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
The republicans would do the same thing if they thought it would help them.
Take this and stick it where the sun don't shine. You're too old for this b.s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Yes buck, helping homeless people vote is much more disgusting than disenfranchising millions of people based on the color of their skin or economic status...
It's a ploy...and you know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
As for "helping" these homeless people... I guess you've already forgotten about the thousands of homeless people he put to work and into housing as a community organizer in Chicago... Obama has done more to help these people than all the people who post on this site have done collectively in their lives.
Give me an f'n break. This holier than thou shtick is pure political b.s. I don't know if you're suggesting he's built up credit to now exploit but if so...stick that notion where the sun don't shine as well.

And don't tell me who has helped who more or whatever. Folks with a vested interest in something don't cut corners or exploit for personal gain. I don't have a commercial expousing my greatness in such endeavors but I lived it nonetheless so I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Your oppisition to the party system has prevented you from seeing anything objectively. Your blind oppisition is just as bad as the blind loyalty you rail against daily.
I don't even have words for this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
The idea that Barack Obama isn't a better representative than John McCain for the homeless is patently false.
Who suggested this? I sure as hell didn't. I know you would love to make every debate as you vs the talking heads on TV but excuse me for having my own opinion based on my own life.

I want a CLEAR answer on why impromptu polling is happening before they are loaded up to go to the county board of elections in your next response.
buckeyefan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 01:52 AM   #201
The Irish
Mr. Cellophane
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 95
The Irish is on a distinguished road
Default

I love it when people count their chickens before they hatch. Upsets are what make sports so damn entertaining to watch. I wonder if it will work for politics. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, No. It won't.
__________________
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire. I, respectfully, disagree. I say the best weapon is one you only have to fire once! That's how dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. - Tony Stark
The Irish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 09:58 AM   #202
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
And when you complain that folks like me and Tarkus (sorry to drag ya in sir ) treat you like a child...don't cry to me over it. The BUCK (no pun intended) stops with the head cheese. Just because you vote blindly and choose to live in a world with no accountability doesn't mean I will or accept your terms. It's his campaign, his call...PERIOD. When you act like a child...I'll chide you as one.
Very big of you.

Quote:
What assistance? Where? They dug 'em up after changing the law allowing same day registration -voting. They are pawns...nothing more.
Assistance - transportation, information on how to get registered and how to vote.

Quote:
If you keep this up, I'm going to need the names of the professors at OU who let you off the hook with this nonsense. Democracy is an education-based proposal. An informed, free-willed voting public is a necessity...not a hope. I'm for the poor being assimilated into society...not just when it is convenient for political gain.
What are you suggesting? You must be informed to vote? It would be nice, but that's not how it works.

If the rich girl from the suburbs can vote for McCain because daddy told her to, the homeless guy in Akron can vote for Obama because he likes his name

You're for assimilating the poor into society? Terrific. Me too.

Quote:
Sorry, my sources tell me improptu polling is occuring before they load 'em up on the bus. Since when do the poor have to answer a poll before they go to the polls? Every America has the right of privacy in their vote.
Your "sources?"

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You'll have to give me more than your word on such an accusation.

Quote:
It's a ploy...and you know it.
No, it's smart politics. If you know that a group of people is more likely to support your candidate, you do everything you can to help them vote.

McCain's campaign is shipping in old people from rural areas to vote early. Why is that not "disgusting?"

Quote:
Give me an f'n break. This holier than thou shtick is pure political b.s. I don't know if you're suggesting he's built up credit to now exploit but if so...stick that notion where the sun don't shine as well.

And don't tell me who has helped who more or whatever. Folks with a vested interest in something don't cut corners or exploit for personal gain. I don't have a commercial expousing my greatness in such endeavors but I lived it nonetheless so I know.
Obama's lived it too, or is the "food stamp" story just a lie?

It's not about "building up credit," it's about what he stands for. He spent a significant portion of his life helping homeless people. That doesn't give him the right to "exploit" them, but earns him the benefit of the doubt.

Unless you have proof of exploitation, it is fair to say that he is simply being a smart politician, and helping people vote who are likely to vote for him.

Quote:
I don't even have words for this...
Of course you don't because you know it's true. You are unable to give any politician from either major party any credit for anything. That's "blind loyalty" to a belief - a belief that all Democrats and Republicans are wrong about everything.

Quote:
Who suggested this? I sure as hell didn't. I know you would love to make every debate as you vs the talking heads on TV but excuse me for having my own opinion based on my own life.
The point was this...

You asked if Obama wins will he be "helping those homeless people that gave him the election."

The answer is YES.

Quote:
I want a CLEAR answer on why impromptu polling is happening before they are loaded up to go to the county board of elections in your next response.
And I want CLEAR proof that this is occurring before I speculate.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 12:03 PM   #203
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Oh ****... Tark is responding...

Now I have to take on both of these guys...

__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 12:36 PM   #204
Tarkus
The Thread Stalker
 
Tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In The Wind...
Posts: 11,856
Tarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HibachiDG View Post
Interest groups will always be involved with politics. Under the way it is currently and under any changes that you talk about here.
*sigh*

Of course they will but they don't have to be catered to to the extent that they've been....by both parties.


Quote:
Two things you mistake about me personally with this statement.

1. That I'm saying they're both idiots and I'm saying he's better than the other idiot.
2. If you think I fall for all the propaganda that they put forward as candidates is just silly. I think a lot of people can cut through that, it's sometimes hard and sometimes harder to see.

I don't think it's taking the easy way out, I'll give more on that in a second.
No, they're not both 'idiots'. They both have some good qualities. It's my frustration with the system that speaks of 'idiots'.

However, when they chose to align themselves with as corrupt of a system with all the shenanigans going on for tons & tons of years, they are more than qualified to get tagged with a term like that in my eyes.


Quote:
But, why can't people do this within the democrat/republican parties? I don't disagree that people should be more informed and more in tune to the process which includes electing officials other than when we just get the final two for the Presidency.
Great question...

Now go ask your choice of parties why they can't accomplish that. Some great things that you've referred to that are done happen cuz they don't meet the stiff competition from politicians protecting certain self interest groups. However, get too cute in trying to limit certain Elite from lining their pocket books & look out.


Quote:
What candidates exactly do you want people to look at that people are overlooking? I pointed out two outside of the major parties that seem to have the strongest following and I don't think either is a viable candidate to make a positive impact on this country. The other trend is that most of these candidates have broken away from the major parties. Most third party candidates tend to be outside of the mainstream.

It would be completely different with a viable third party candidate that can speak to the issues that a majority of the country faces rather than just pockets.
My problem with this system has been wrought over a lifetime of seeing this country sliding down the abyss from making decisions that adversely affected the public. Decisions that have slowly taken form in the problems that are cropping up all over this country & it's economy today.

I'm not expounding on a particular candidate that's going to magically 'heal' things but of what all these years of stupidity have brought to pass.


Quote:
I realize what my personal beliefs are and how I feel the country can be successful and I don't feel as if they are the same.

This is where I disagree on the "easy way" comment you tossed out, I believe, too casually. It would be easy for me to vote with the candidate that I felt matched closest to my personal beliefs. But, I don't vote that way. I look at the country and try to vote based on what I think is going to help the largest amount of people in the country. To me, that is something much more difficult to do because it takes a larger understanding of the issues in the country.


Are your beliefs so selective that they would harm the majority of people? That seems so odd to even say that...


Quote:
We can't just all of a sudden go from a mixed economy to one where we would nationalize it. We can't just completely burn bridges with corporations that have made a lot of great contributions to this country. I don't think a lot of the third party candidates that we've seen really understand that the success of this country lies in working towards the middle.
Who says that tightening the system of abuses is 'burning bridges'? Sure, I can imagine that some wouldn't like the gravy train to carry 'less supplies' but that's life. No one says to go out of their way to cripple corporations, just not allow them to rule the roost.

As far as 3rd party candidates: You're selling them short to a great degree. Sure they spend a lot of air spouting of the abuses that even the average citizen can understand but it seems to be the only way to fight the system to get attention. Assuming somehow that all the candidates thru the years are somehow not' bright enough' compared to the big party candidates is beyond a stretch & sounds like a way to diminish their intelligence.


Quote:
I've seen a lot of great things come from democratic candidates and I feel as if working towards creating a stronger democratic party is the way to go rather than uprooting things that I've seen and believe work for things that I'm skeptical as to whether or not they will work. We see more and more participation in the political process and more often than not we see people dissatisfied with a lot of the gaming that goes on in politics. A lot of people are taking more time to be involved with the process and to cut through a lot of the things that go on with the candidates.
Once again, talk of a particular candidates 'great things'. Problem is that a candidate's accomplishments before they get to the 'Big House' or what you can consider more of a minor league thing. When the get to the White House, that's the Big Leagues & they don't have the power of a Dictator, benevolent or not, to make the major changes at this stage.

So, no thank you...That boat of optimism has sailed a long time ago with me. If you want to board & go for a cruise, have at it. Here's a parting gift for the trip:


Quote:
The democratic primary was one of the most involved in quite some time, I think it shows progress in the realm of political elections.
I think it just shows the power of the internet & the fact that a lot of people are using this case of the first black man in the White House as a reason to jump on the bandwagon & say they were there.

Quote:
So, again, I think it would be easy to find and support a candidate that would match my ideals. The difficult part is to work towards a situation where you get a candidate that is able to do something for those ideals on a National level. And when I look at history and see the accomplishments of FDR and LBJ it makes me want to work towards that. I don't think by my vote I'm saying Obama is going to do amazing things like FDR and LBJ, but Obama if elected President can represent a changing of ideals to ones that do include more social concerns that could potentially allow for progress. Like you said, these things do not happen overnight.
Well, good luck with what I'd consider Blind Faith. I liked the band & their music but never wanted to use it as my political strategy...

Quote:
Just curious, but why the first part here? Why not just ask for a specific example?
Basically cuz I expected an example so I wouldn't have to ask for one...

Quote:
We've been speaking in generalizations. Who do you want me to give a specific example about? I brought up two candidates in Nader and Barr. Here's something that, roughly, but not quite, typed into the first response but decided to take it out because I didn't think it connected with the point of what we were discussing.

With Barr, I feel that a lot of infrastructure programs that we fund and probably should fund more now would be overlooked. We would neglect rail systems, specifically commuter and we would move even further away from government support of advanced job training programs for people beyond college/high school education.

With Nader, I feel that we'll move too far away from strengthening corporations that make the United States competitive at home and globally. I believe the best thing for this country is reigning in some of the freedom that corporations have and to quit the neglect of the workers for those corporations. But, I feel Nader goes too far in this regard and that a lot of our economic infrastructure would suffer. As well, I don't think either of these candidates would be good at promoting economic growth.
My point has always been based on the net result of each party. Not this election's particular candidates.

Why? Cuz regardless of their 'Mission Statement', both parties have played the Elitist game fairly consistently. That's the root of our problems now & in the past.

I don't want to get into a mind & finger numbing convo on each & every candidate cuz it's closing the barn door after the horse has gone. My issue is with the cheerleader type of enthusiasm as tho we're on the cusp of great things with Obama. If it only took one guy, then maybe there'd be a basis but the reality is he's just the present poster boy who can't change a history of Big Business protection that the US Government has always provided from both parties.

Maybe a few 'great things' but not enough to stem the tide...


Quote:
We had that discussion a few weeks ago. Generally, I think that the country is strong. There are things that I think we can make better.
This is probably where there's the biggest difference. The country's in a shambles across the board but you think we're in good shape & strong, to boot. Plus that the damage right now is just a Republican mess the last 8 years & not an accumulated result of poor management & abuses of power.

But anyway, thanks for your input...
__________________
Tarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 12:37 PM   #205
Tarkus
The Thread Stalker
 
Tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In The Wind...
Posts: 11,856
Tarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Oh ****... Tark is responding...

Now I have to take on both of these guys...

:lol:

Your post is next.

I promise to be gentle tho...:thumbup:
__________________
Tarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 01:19 PM   #206
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarkus View Post
:lol:

Your post is next.

I promise to be gentle tho...:thumbup:


Yeah, buck has beaten me up enough for the week.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 01:20 PM   #207
Tarkus
The Thread Stalker
 
Tarkus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In The Wind...
Posts: 11,856
Tarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura aboutTarkus has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post

First of all, do you really think Barack Obama is behind this "strategy?" No, it is his campaign. Sure, he is in charge of those people, but get real.
& that's a great example of it being a 'Party thing' & not a 'candidate thing'. True 'win at all costs' politics.

Quote:
Secondly, what makes you think these homeless people aren't greatful for the assistance?
It's times like this that makes it easier to cite inexperience based on age.

The majority of homeless people aren't worrying about who's going into office but what they're going to eat & where are they going to sleep. Besides that, there's a general distrust of a government that will send billions of aid to foreign lands, as example, but ignore the homeless & the needy.

You are being naive if you think that the homeless aren't being given food & clothing, as example, at the same time they're being shuttled to the voting booth. These, 'volunteers'/campaign are more than capable of not playing by an ethical set of rules.


Quote:
For someone who is such an advocate for the "poor," I'm shocked that you would be opposed to helping them vote.
I don't want to go too deep into you & Buck's main theme but have you ever heard anyone at all talk about the fact that the homeless are really suffering cuz they can't vote?

How about getting them off the street & let them take care of that on their own? That's where homeless are suffering...


Quote:
There's no stipulation that they have to vote for Obama. They are not being forced to vote. They are not being coerced into anything.


If I'm homeless & I find out that Obama's Army is offering food/clothing/etc., I'm immediately liking Obama as my next President. :thumbup:


Quote:
The republicans would do the same thing if they thought it would help them.
Without a doubt but it doesn't make Obama's Army innocent.

Quote:
Assistance - transportation, information on how to get registered and how to vote.
:lol:

Not short on the Rhetoric, are we?

Just what the homeless have been clamoring for since the Republicans got into office..."transportation, information on how to get registered and how to vote".


Quote:
Sorry, but I'm not buying it. You'll have to give me more than your word on such an accusation.
:lol:

C'mon now...

You don't honestly believe that Obama's Army is loading up any possible voters & not going to make sure they don't give a McCain vote a ride to the voting booth?

You know it. You just don't want to admit it...


Quote:
No, it's smart politics. If you know that a group of people is more likely to support your candidate, you do everything you can to help them vote.
It's probably the back & forth you do that gets me.

You say that there's no pre-polling before they ship the homeless off to vote but yet you call it "smart politics" if you know a certain group will help your candidate.

Just how do they know who these people would vote for so that they 'can do everything they can to help their candidate'?

Well???


Quote:
McCain's campaign is shipping in old people from rural areas to vote early. Why is that not "disgusting?"
You honestly don't think there's a difference between old people in rural areas without a ride & homeless people without a pot to piss in? You don't think one is easily manipulated?

Quote:
Unless you have proof of exploitation, it is fair to say that he is simply being a smart politician, and helping people vote who are likely to vote for him.


First you 'exonerate' him for the tactic & now you call him a "smart politician" for helping those same people who are likely to vote for him.

There's that contrary back & forth again. You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid...


Quote:
The point was this...

You asked if Obama wins will he be "helping those homeless people that gave him the election."

The answer is YES.
You honestly believe each & every homeless person on the bus will not be homeless after Obama takes office?

& of course, you're implying that homeless voters for Obama are somehow expecting that they won't be homeless after the election? They would have to if you honestly believed that the bus ride actually helped them be part of the process.

My view on that: :lol:


Quote:
And I want CLEAR proof that this is occurring before I speculate.
Which is ridiculous, like I said before, cuz it would make absolutely no sense for Obama's Army to bus in potential McCain votes.
__________________
Tarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 01:42 PM   #208
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
C'mon now...

You don't honestly believe that Obama's Army is loading up any possible voters & not going to make sure they don't give a McCain vote a ride to the voting booth?

You know it. You just don't want to admit it...
They don't have to do such a thing. They know that the odds are in their favor. Sure, a few of them might vote for McCain, but they know that the vast majority of these people will vote democrat.

Quote:
It's probably the back & forth you do that gets me.

You say that there's no pre-polling before they ship the homeless off to vote but yet you call it "smart politics" if you know a certain group will help your candidate.

Just how do they know who these people would vote for so that they 'can do everything they can to help their candidate'?

Well???
The same way McCain knows that rural white women will vote for him - common sense.

Quote:
You honestly don't think there's a difference between old people in rural areas without a ride & homeless people without a pot to piss in? You don't think one is easily manipulated?
What evidence do you have that these people are being manipulated?

And old people with little education aren't easily manipulated?

It is nothing more than getting people who are likely to vote for you to the polls. Obama's campaign is spending the majority of their buses and people to get STUDENTS to the polls. This accusation about "manipulating the homeless" is comletely baseless.

Each campaign is working to get their "base" to the polls. It just so happens that poor people (including the homeless) are more likely to support democrats.

Quote:
First you 'exonerate' him for the tactic & now you call him a "smart politician" for helping those same people who are likely to vote for him.

There's that contrary back & forth again. You can't have it both ways, I'm afraid...
I don't see the contradiction. Please eleaborate...

I said it is a smart move. I said there is no evidence of manipulation. How are those statements in contrast with each other?

Quote:
You honestly believe each & every homeless person on the bus will not be homeless after Obama takes office?
No, but by the time his administration is over, fewer people will be living in poverty.

As you can see from census bureau information, the poverty rate steadily decreases under democratic presidents and steadily increases under republicans.

Quote:
& of course, you're implying that homeless voters for Obama are somehow expecting that they won't be homeless after the election? They would have to if you honestly believed that the bus ride actually helped them be part of the process.
No, I am arguing that many/most people in economic troubles are of the opinion that they will have a better chance at success/survival under democratic leadership than republican.

Quote:
Which is ridiculous, like I said before, cuz it would make absolutely no sense for Obama's Army to bus in potential McCain votes
Not if they know going into it that the democratic votes will outnumber the republican votes.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 03:08 PM   #209
HibachiDG
Sports Virtuoso
 
HibachiDG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,258
HibachiDG is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Great question...

Now go ask your choice of parties why they can't accomplish that. Some great things that you've referred to that are done happen cuz they don't meet the stiff competition from politicians protecting certain self interest groups. However, get too cute in trying to limit certain Elite from lining their pocket books & look out.
I think a lot of it has to do with people not being as active in the political process, especially in the years where we don't have a Presidential election. I do think more people are being involved in the process and that it's a step in the right direction. If more and more people make an informed vote and then their candidate does not pull through, it's going to upset those folks. Especially once people start voting in the non-Presidential elections.

Quote:
Are your beliefs so selective that they would harm the majority of people? That seems so odd to even say that...
We have a pretty diverse country, so I think there needs to be playing to things that a majority of people won't find disruptive. Maybe harm is the wrong word, and a better description is that they would be a tough sell to a lot of people. And because of that, it would potentially lead to nothing being accomplished.

Quote:
As far as 3rd party candidates: You're selling them short to a great degree. Sure they spend a lot of air spouting of the abuses that even the average citizen can understand but it seems to be the only way to fight the system to get attention. Assuming somehow that all the candidates thru the years are somehow not' bright enough' compared to the big party candidates is beyond a stretch & sounds like a way to diminish their intelligence
I probably am selling third party candidates short, but I don't think I said anything about the intelligence of 3rd party candidates compared to big party candidates. I do think that I have a good understanding of how 3rd party candidates will find success, though. I'm not trying to diminish their intelligence, but more or less just explain why you don't see people flocking to 3rd party candidates even when conditions aren't as good as what they'd want.

Quote:
So, no thank you...That boat of optimism has sailed a long time ago with me. If you want to board & go for a cruise, have at it. Here's a parting gift for the trip:
Well, I'll certainly admit I'm on there. I'll try not to be too optimistic though and keep the life raft somewhere near by.

Quote:
My issue is with the cheerleader type of enthusiasm as tho we're on the cusp of great things with Obama.
I don't think I've ever had that type of enthusiasm or even came close to saying we're on the cusp of great things with Obama.

Quote:
This is probably where there's the biggest difference. The country's in a shambles across the board but you think we're in good shape & strong, to boot. Plus that the damage right now is just a Republican mess the last 8 years & not an accumulated result of poor management & abuses of power.

But anyway, thanks for your input...
No problem, thanks for yours as well.

And, yeah, that probably is our biggest difference in all this. I know it probably comes off like I'm just glossing over those problems, but I think I'm only doing them in contrast to a shift in what it would take for a 3rd party candidate dissimilar to the big party candidates to find success.

Quote:
As you can see from census bureau information, the poverty rate steadily decreases under democratic presidents and steadily increases under republicans.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the rate has generally stayed the same since the 70s, but the number of people on poverty when up in the 80s.
HibachiDG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2008, 03:29 PM   #210
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the rate has generally stayed the same since the 70s, but the number of people on poverty when up in the 80s.
Yes, it has stayed relatively static since the late 60s.

I would argue that it is due to conservative presidents and congressmen.

If you look at the rates by president, it is clear that Democrats are better for those in poverty.

EVERY Democratic president over the last 50+ years has left office with a lower poverty rate than when they entered. EVERY Republican president has left office with a HIGHER poverty rate then when they entered.

In other words, I would argue that if we gave progressives more than 1 or 2 terms at a time, you WOULD see significant decreases in the poverty rate.

Everytime a democratic president makes some progress, a republican is then elected which counters and negates any progress made by the previous administration.
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dead Pool 2008 Dano The Lounge 122 11-12-2008 09:07 PM
SC Newsfeed: MLB 2008: 15 Reasons to Watch Marc Latest Sports Central Headlines 0 03-17-2008 12:00 PM
De La Hoya: 3 more 2008 fights Tarkus Other Sports Blitz 3 01-29-2008 09:15 PM
What do you watch on TV? jhuerbin88 The Lounge 15 08-29-2007 06:57 AM
Colin Powell For President In 2008 Ellis The Lounge 16 10-13-2004 06:19 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 PM.