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Old 03-27-2007, 08:56 PM   #61
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17810940/

Monica Goodling's announcement that she would take the Fifth Amendment to avoid possibly incriminating herself came as the embattled attorney general cast himself as misunderstood in his conflicting accounts of his involvement in the firings. Goodling is the Justice Department's liaison to the White House.

Why would you invoke the fifth amendment if you have nothing to hide? Why would you worry about "incriminating" yourself, or anyone else, if no crime or misconduct occurred.

Fishing expedition on th epart of the Democrats? Obviously not...
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Why would you invoke the fifth amendment if you have nothing to hide?
Do you really think Leahy's Judiciary Committee is open to hearing the truth here? Monica Goodling's counsel is wise to advise her to plead the 5th; I know I would. Democrats are looking for scalps... give 'em the finger!
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Old 03-28-2007, 08:37 AM   #63
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Well she could always get on the stand, and when asked anything she felt uncomfortable answering, go into Tony Soprano mode: "I do not recall."

But seriously, the generation that grew up with Watergate - followed ad nauseam by this "gate" and that "gate" - is decidedly unimpressed with this latest tempest-in-a-teapot (take it from one of them).
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:55 AM   #64
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Quote:
give 'em the finger!
That's fine. They have given the congress all the ammunition they need now. What looked like a "political fishing expedition" has become a legitimate scandal. As I said, there is no reason to take the fifth unless you fear punishment for a crime you committed, or are affraid that covering up a crime will cause you to lie under oath. Goodling has basically admitted that wrong-doing has occured, and most likely a crime. Gonzalez will be luck if he makes it through April...

This is the best thing that could have happened for the democrats.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:32 AM   #65
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So you're saying the best thing that could happen to the Democrats is a bad thing for the country? It appears the Democrats are putting party above country again.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:32 AM   #66
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Again Fresh, how was it all right for Mr. Clinton to fire all of the US Attorneys, at least one of whom had an ongoing investigation of a prominent Democrat in place, for political reasons and it is not all right for President Bush to fire 8 for not doing their jobs (as indicated by the story I posted in regards to Mr. McKay)?
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:38 AM   #67
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...Goodling has basically admitted that wrong-doing has occured...
Proof?

The Fifth Amendment extends a right to Americans. There is no "admission of guilt" by utilizing this right! If you think so, you clearly do not understand the Fifth Amendment.
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:57 AM   #68
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Again Fresh, how was it all right for Mr. Clinton to fire all of the US Attorneys, at least one of whom had an ongoing investigation of a prominent Democrat in place, for political reasons and it is not all right for President Bush to fire 8 for not doing their jobs (as indicated by the story I posted in regards to Mr. McKay)?
Every president replaces all of the US Attonrneys at the beginning of their term. Clinton did it, Bush Sr. did it, Bush Jr. did it, Nixon did it, Carter did it, ect... No president has EVER done it in the middle of their term. That is why this case is unique...
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:00 AM   #69
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The Fifth Amendment extends a right to Americans. There is no "admission of guilt" by utilizing this right! If you think so, you clearly do not understand the Fifth Amendment
She said "she would take the Fifth Amendment to avoid possibly incriminating herself." Explain why someone would fear incriminating herself if no crime occured.... Someone explain that... If there was no crime, what would you have to fear?
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:06 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
Every president replaces all of the US Attonrneys at the beginning of their term. Clinton did it, Bush Sr. did it, Bush Jr. did it, Nixon did it, Carter did it, ect... No president has EVER done it in the middle of their term. That is why this case is unique...
They do? This is another of those statements, Fresh. I would appreciate some proof for it.
Managers fire incompetent employees all the time, Fresh. That's what happened here. These firings were legal, as Federal employees are "at will" employees, meaning their jobs are not guaranteed. They can be terminated for any, or no, reason.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:10 AM   #71
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They do? This is another of those statements, Fresh. I would appreciate some proof for it.
I will try to find an article. I heard a legal expert on CNN talking about it. He has stated that every president replaces all the attorneys at the beginning of their term. I guess he could have been lying, I'm sure someone would have called him out on it.

I probably won't be able to prove this because that is kind of an obscure fact that will be hard to find on the net. I guess you will have to take my word for it that I heard it on CNN.

If you would like to find information to the contrary, I will gladly retract my statement.

In addition, to avoid further conflict I will say, I only heard one legal expert make this claim. It is possible that this expert was wrong, but I have heard nothing else to suggest otherwise.

Is that sufficient?
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:13 AM   #72
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These firings were legal, as Federal employees are "at will" employees, meaning their jobs are not guaranteed. They can be terminated for any, or no, reason.
This is true. But again, why would someone take the fifth, citing fear of incriminating herself, if everything was done on the up-and-up?
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:14 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
She said "she would take the Fifth Amendment to avoid possibly incriminating herself." Explain why someone would fear incriminating herself if no crime occured.... Someone explain that... If there was no crime, what would you have to fear?
Taking the 5th Ammendment allows her to avoid all questions of any nature. No admission of anything is present here.
All she is saying is that she refuses to answer every question.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:15 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
She said "she would take the Fifth Amendment to avoid possibly incriminating herself." Explain why someone would fear incriminating herself if no crime occured.... Someone explain that... If there was no crime, what would you have to fear?
You seem to feel there is a crime here. There is not. No evidence of a crime has been presented. The Justice Department official is wise to take the Fifth Amendment, as I have explained. But if you are unclear why, perhaps some basic CONGRESS 101 is necessary. Here you go=>

Democrats, led by Judiciary Committee Chairman Leahy, are looking for a crime. Any crime, big or small. Prosecuting attorneys have subtle ways of twisting words of folks when they have them before their committee that can implicate officials into complicitcy or involvement in almost anything; bright lights, media cameras, harsh stares of Senators... not a very conducive environment for an innocent person. Far easier in my opinion to Plead the Fifth and let Democrats find a victim elsewhere...
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:18 AM   #75
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I will try to find an article. I heard a legal expert on CNN talking about it. He has stated that every president replaces all the attorneys at the beginning of their term. I guess he could have been lying, I'm sure someone would have called him out on it.

I probably won't be able to prove this because that is kind of an obscure fact that will be hard to find on the net. I guess you will have to take my word for it that I heard it on CNN.

If you would like to find information to the contrary, I will gladly retract my statement.

In addition, to avoid further conflict I will say, I only heard one legal expert make this claim. It is possible that this expert was wrong, but I have heard nothing else to suggest otherwise.

Is that sufficient?
I believe what was said is that the President may replace all of the US Attorneys at the beginning of his/her term. It is not an absolute. Some are usually retained, some are removed.
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