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Old 03-18-2001, 01:02 PM   #16
Dre2g
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I don't think Casey Martin should be allowed to use the cart. If players can't hit Pedro's fastball, I don't think Bud Selig would tell Pedro to slow down his pitch. Plus, if he's using the cart, it would work to his advantage. But I will say that this issue is not as big as everyone is making it out to be.
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Old 03-18-2001, 02:13 PM   #17
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My reasoning is this:

Mr. Martin must be consider as a normal person. Under that, it would be unfair for him to ride in a cart and others not.
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Old 03-18-2001, 04:33 PM   #18
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Exclamation The Results of the Big Debate

Here is the dialogue from the debate Rick, Lee, and myself conducted on MSN Messenger today.

StarsFan = Lee
Vince = Rick
Marc James = Me

Marc James says:
Okay, let's begin with Rick's opening statement.

Vince says:
What makes a game, a rivalry? What makes two teams, rivals? In my opinion, what separates just another game from a rivalry, is just one simple thing…. hate for the other team. What other game causes so many arguments between fans, alumni, and players, than Ohio State vs. Michigan? To make a great game a great rivalry, the teams and fans must not think too kindly of each other. And Michigan and Ohio State fans do not think to kindly of each other, to say the least.

Also, there is so much history between these two teams. Do you realize that these two teams have been playing each other since 1897? Ohio State and Michigan are two excellent schools that are always contending for the National Championship or the Big Ten title.
This is the best rivalry in sports…..Period.

Marc James says:
Rick, that is your opening statement. Lee's turn

StarsFan says:
In 1893, the Govenor General of Canada at the time, Lord Stanley, donated the Stanley Cup to the Dominion of Canada. He was English, but the first Stanley Cup went to the Montreal AAA -- a French team.

Perhaps, though, the best rivalry in sports began with the creation of the NHL. The "Original 6" teams of the NHL had only two Canadian franchises -- the Montreal Canadiens and the Toronto Maple Leafs. The other four teams were in the United States. Ever since then, it was a special night at either the Montreal Forum or Maple Leaf Gardens when the opposing Canadian team came. Each team had their string of Stanley Cup champions, and thus, when they met, it was a special atmosphere, for no team wanted to be out done by the other... not only was it a battle of the best in the NHL, but it was a battle of the East and West, the French and English, in Canada the rivalry had to start SOMEWHERE -- the league began in the 20s, and there was an instant rivalry!: the battle of Canada! ...for hockey supremecy!

Marc James says:
Lee, how is that rivalry more special and unique than any other rivalry, say Rick's?

StarsFan says:
The Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens have a unique rivalry. The two teams were not only battling for the title of the supremecy of hockey in Canada but it was also a political-type battle. The French were never keen on joining Canada. The English depsised them also. It was two different ways of living and in society, and hockey was a way to settle it.

Since the beginning, perhaps the "battle of society," the "battle of English and French" have worn off a bit, but today, in the year 2001, when the teams meet, even the Canadiens, the worst team in the NHL right now, sell out their 21,000-plus seat arena. There are just as many Toronto fans in the stands when the game is in Montreal, and the same when it is in Toronto (now im donw)

Marc James says:
In what other fashions is your rivalry great? You already mentioned the fans hate each other, what else makes it the best in sports? Lee already mentioned his is the battle of Canada

Vince says:
The Ohio State-Michigan rivalry is great in many ways. If you want to call Lee's rivalry the Battle of Canada, you could perhaps call my rivalry the battle of the Big Ten. Year in, and year out, some things usually remain the same, for one, Ohio State and Michigan will be two of the premier teams in the nation. Between these two teams, there are seventeen national championships. These two
teams were good, are good, and will remain exellent schools for years to come. These teams have been plaing for over 100 years.

Marc James says:
Rick, Battle of Big Ten to Battle of an entire country is a little lopsided, am I wrong? I do see your point, though, these are the top two teams in their conference and will always remain elite.

Vince says:
It is not lopsided. If there are only two teams in Canada, it is kind of worthless to call it the Battle of Canada. When there are only two teams that can call themselves the best in the country, it means very little. However Michigan and Ohio State not only have to compete with each other to call themselves the best, but with 10 other teams as well.

Marc James says:
Point well taken. Lee, care to counteract that?

StarsFan says:
In response to Rick's answer, the Toronto Maple Leafs and Montreal Canadiens have and astounding THIRTY-FIVE Stanley Cup banners... more than the seventeen of Ohio and Michigan. Also, the Canadiens and Leafs have been competing for these titles in less years than those teams mentioned in Rick's argument. Furtheremore, it's not "worthless to clal it the Battle of Canada." The Canadiens and Leafs were also competing against four American teams. In the late 60s, the NHL expanded, and again in the 70s and 90s... they have been competing for hockey supremecy for quite some time (finished)

Vince says:
It is much harder to win a National Championship than a title when there are only six teams in the league. There are over one hundred and tweenty teams in Division 1 football that you have to be better than to call yourself a National Champion.

Marc James says:
Do you think your rivalry has helped the sport? Do you think a rivalry is only a rivalry if it has helped the sport? If so, how has your rivalry helped the sport?

StarsFan says:
Rivalries partially "help" a sport. For example, when the Canadiens and Maple Leafs play each other in the regular season, either arenas are sold out, increasing team revenues. Also, not only in Ontario and Quebec, but everyone around Canada tunes to the television to watch the Leafs and Canadiens play. Why? Both teams step up their play a level because they know that bragging rights between the two best all-time hockey teams are on the line. The level of play is much more intense in Maple Leaf-Canadien games. Thus, the fans enjoy the atmosphere in the arena much more, and the crowd is always noisy.... especially, as I mentioned before, are as many fans from the Away team in the crowd as the Home team[/b]

Vince says:
The same can be said for all rivalries. Rival teams always step up and play harder. Bragging rights are always at stake. There is nothing that makes your rivalry any more special than any other. Rivalries are crucial for college sports. The rivalries between scools is what separates college sports from professional sports. It makes it more fun for everyone. The players want to show each other up.
This is the best rivalry in sports. OSU and Michigan fans circle this game on their calanders and wait for it. If you don't beat Michigan, your season was unsuccesful, nomatter what else happened. The same goes when Michigan doesnt beat OSU. That is what sports is all about, so of course it helps the sport

Marc James says:
How do you define "rivalry" and how does yours best meet the criteria? How does your opponents NOT? Both answer, Lee first

StarsFan says:
I have thought this for a long while. You can't really define "rivalry" -- you just know what it is. It's like walking -- you can't explain how you do it -- you JUST DO! The Canadiens-Maple Leafs rivalry has been around since the creation of the league. It started with the English vs. French, now, it's a game that everyone looks forward to. Perhaps that is what is meant by "rivarly" everyone, no matter if you hate one team, both teams, or NO teams... everyone in the league must look forward to those two teams battling up. Canadien-Leaf games certainly match up to that. Eastern Conference teams are said to have sound defensive styles, but when the Leafs & Canadiens play, that is thrown out the window: the gme is exciting with lots of htis and offense... it's a rivlary.

Marc James says:
okay. Rick, answer: How do you define "rivalry" and how does yours best meet the criteria? How does your opponents
NOT?

Vince says:
A rival is your arch enemy. It is like Batman and the Joker. Or perhaps, Coke and Pepsi. To be rivals you need to hate the other team, and you want to beat them worse than you have ever beaten another team before. more

Vince says:
For it to be a good rivalry both teams need to be good. Ohio state and Michigan are both clearly, top notch programs. Unlike the Canadiens, which are a now terrible team. You know that a rivalry game is important when you fire a tweenty year coach with a good record, because he couldnt beat the rival team. That is what you get with OSU-Michigan.

Now, closing arguments in Part II...
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Old 03-18-2001, 04:34 PM   #19
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Default Part II (continued)

Marc James says:
All right. Let's go for closing arguments. Lee first

StarsFan says:
Quite simply, the rivalry between the Montreal Canadiens and the Toronto Maple Leafs was instant since the creation of the National Hockey Leauge because of the geographical location of the teams -- it was the English vs. the French. The difference between this and any other rivalry in sports -- professional or otherwise -- is that it attracts the special attention of sports stations league-wide. No one, except the fans the certain teams, could care less about an "exciting" Tampa Bay Lightning and Floriday Panther match-up... or a New York Rangers vs. New York Islanders game... or how about those "mickey mouse" Ducks versus their aquatic cousins, the Sharks!? The Maple Leaf and Canadiens games are always on the prime time for hockey -- Saturday night at 7 PM in the East. Always. You can always count on it that four times a year on Saturday night, there will be a Leaf-Canadien game on. Everyone will dress in their Blue and White or Red and White. The game will be wide open. It will always be close. Both teams have battled in the Stanley Cup Finals for ultamite hockey supremecy. They have played, at times, what would be "meaningless" regular season games also. Nevertheless, the fans always show up. Not only in the arena, but also on the tube, where some of the highest ratings of the year occur. Yes, the Canadiens are among the worst in the league this year, but the thing that makes their games versus the Maple Leafs some of the best is the fact that they have always played their best hockey versus Toronto. Why? Because Montreal Canadiens and Toronto Maple Leafs are arch-rivals.

Vince says:
Ohio state and Michigan is simply a great rivalry. They have more history than almost any oher rivalry game. Inside this eat rivalry, are other small rivaries as well. For example, perhaps the greatest coaching rivalry of all time was between Woody Hayes and Bo Schembechler. If you dont win this game, your fans are disgusted. Either one of these teams would rather beat Michigan and loose the rest of their games, then to loose to Michigan and have a good year. Also, it is only a once a year game. These two teams build up hate for one another the whole season. Plus, college kids just flat out care more. Unlike the rich pro's that only care about money. These kids have school pride. They want badly to win this game. And if you are a coach, and do not win this game, you will get fired.


Now, who won? You'll just have to wait and tune into Rick's upcoming e-sports.com article.
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