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View Poll Results: Who would you rather have and why?
T.O. 12 57.14%
R. Moss 9 42.86%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2005, 07:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
But back to the matter at hand: I didn't know that Packer fans would moon - for real - the other team's bus as it drove into the Lambeau Field parking lot; that fact does put Moss' actions into perspective.
Ditto.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:44 PM   #32
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:stupid:

TO didn't seek out the spotlight? The media created a monster? Wow. You've really bought into the entire "wholesome TO" idea? The 100% effort guy? The guy that calls out his QB in the papers.?The "fine locker room presence" that aired the team's dirty laundry in the media so he would be able to leave? Are you serious?
As I said, and will say again: Owens is a fine receiver. That's not in question at all. But with that said, he is a puke. A fool. He and his brother Randy, and their dances, and smiles, and "me first" metality is exactly what's wrong with football. And if you can't see that, then you never will. I guess TO can fool some people...
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:19 PM   #33
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or your views could be the product of someone who just sees T.O. from the media perspective and hasn't followed his career as closely.

Maybe...
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:29 PM   #34
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The Eagles will say great things about T.O....but only because they havent seen the real TO yet. When TO is playing he got most of the balls thrown his way because nobody else in the WR corps is worth a damn. If TO had someone else on the team where he had to share the balls thrown with, he would definately be pissed and everyone would see the TO we saw in San Francisco when he had JJ Stokes and others that could actually catch the ball.
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:51 PM   #35
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Both are jerks, but I prefer T.O. I just think it's rarer that you find someone who is as big AND fast as he is. However, if I was building a team, I would take Javon Walker because he's young and improving. No one mentioned him, but he's one of the top receivers in the league. Plus, no baggage.
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
but I prefer T.O.......Plus, no baggage.
Uh...is there more than 1 Terrell Owens in the NFL? A TO with no baggage isn't ringing a bell with me..
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:08 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSUViking
Uh...is there more than 1 Terrell Owens in the NFL? A TO with no baggage isn't ringing a bell with me..


He's talking about J. Walker, you're playing with his words

Quote:
I would take Javon Walker because he's young and improving. No one mentioned him, but he's one of the top receivers in the league. Plus, no baggage.

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Old 01-12-2005, 01:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by coachJ
If TO had someone else on the team where he had to share the balls thrown with, he would definately be pissed and everyone would see the TO we saw in San Francisco when he had JJ Stokes and others that could actually catch the ball.
Um, just step back and read that last part again. JJ Stokes was actually a good player? You're serious about this?

Hmmm...that isn't a good way to provide a convincing argument...and this is coming from a person who's been a 49er fan since the age of 4.

Frankly, which T.O. did you see? The one who was mad because he wasn't involved in the offense when the team lost? I can tell you that's the basic situation when he gets mad and whines. He wants to win, and if he isn't involved and the team loses, he feels like there should have been more opportunites for him to make a difference...because that's what he does. He's a gamebreaker. He didn't have a problem with Tai Streets when he played well. All that matters to him is the "W". If the team can win without him being the main guy...it's fine by him. If you think otherwise, you've bought the media hype about his "selfish behavior."

When the team wins (an in turn, he wins), he's all smiles and giggles. He enjoys it. He has fun with it, as many have witnessed with his antics. It's just funny to see how many people get their panties in a bunch when T.O. says anything remotely "controversial." Quite amusing.

The T.O. you think you saw in San Francisco seems to be quite different than who Terrell Owens is. It is very easy to take on a role once that role's been put in place for you. When there's no way to fight it, why not embrace it? Either way, for him any publicity is good publicity...especially when it's typically low-grade heckling and not serious issues.
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Old 01-12-2005, 02:03 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Jefe


It is very easy to take on a role once that role's been put in place for you.
It's also very easy to be a stand-up guy, and you didn't see him doing that in San Fran, did you?
There you go again, making excuses for him. You sound more like a subjective patsy that's blinded by his fondness. Why is it that you're the only one here that's saying everyone has Owens wrong? Perpahs, we're all wrong. The media created this jerk of a man. Owens took on that persona that the media created, and ran with it. It's all the media's fault for the "misconception" concerning Owens personality. Hell, maybe we're all to blame. I'll stop. I'm starting to feel bad.
Gimmie a break.

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Old 01-12-2005, 03:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by coachJ
The Eagles will say great things about T.O....but only because they havent seen the real TO yet. When TO is playing he got most of the balls thrown his way because nobody else in the WR corps is worth a damn. If TO had someone else on the team where he had to share the balls thrown with, he would definately be pissed and everyone would see the TO we saw in San Francisco when he had JJ Stokes and others that could actually catch the ball.

Your theory may very well be put to the test in about two months - definitely if the Eagles don't make it to the Super Bowl, and quite possibly even if they do.

But J.J. Stokes could actually catch the ball? He was one of the biggest first-round busts I can remember - and my first-hand memory goes back to the early '70s.
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Old 01-12-2005, 04:50 AM   #41
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Personally, I don't like T.O. ever since the Star Dance in Texas Stadium. I still get upset when watching one of T.O.'s thousand highlight videos on SportsCenter.

But I can still understand to a certain degree where El Jefe is coming from. But still lets get down to the results of his actions...

Cons: He dances on the Dallas star and mocks Ray Lewis causing a media frenzy. This makes him the 'star' of his team and gets him the commercials, the highlights, the attention. It also distracts the team.

He spurns Baltimore furthering his 'I'll play when I want to' demeanor.

He fires out discouraging statements on Steve Mariucci and Jeff Garcia, pretty much forcing the 49ers to get rid of both.

His Monday Night pre-game spot causes another media uproar and forces the FCC to start investigating it. Since when does sex belong in football?

Pros: Hey, his Sharpie incident caused a drastic increase in sales....
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Old 01-12-2005, 05:35 AM   #42
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I'm not saying JJ Stokes was a great WR or anything like that, but the guy could catch the ball better then the other 2 he has with him in Philly right now...and i couldnt think of Tai Streets, JJ Stokes was the first x-49er teammate of TO's that popped into my head because i dont really remember that many 49er WR's besides Rice, John Taylor, JJ Stokes, TO, and Tai Streets, besides the ones they have now....i know Stokes wasnt a great player, but he did catch the ball
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:27 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by coachJ
I'm not saying JJ Stokes was a great WR or anything like that, but the guy could catch the ball better then the other 2 he has with him in Philly right now...and i couldnt think of Tai Streets, JJ Stokes was the first x-49er teammate of TO's that popped into my head because i dont really remember that many 49er WR's besides Rice, John Taylor, JJ Stokes, TO, and Tai Streets, besides the ones they have now....i know Stokes wasnt a great player, but he did catch the ball

In my opinion at least, Stokes was every bit as bad as Stinkston - and even costlier since the 49ers traded up to get him in the first round - in effect costing them two first-round picks - while Stinkston was a second-round pick.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:38 AM   #44
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dirtywhiteboy-

hey man, it's simply another perspective regarding the matter. I already admitted a little bias before even saying anything else, and I'm not asking anyone here to accept my thoughts as their own personal truth. Instead I'm merely throwing out the very possible idea, from a viewpoint likely deeper into the situation than your own, that the media has PLENTY of control as to how a star player can be perceived. There's no denying that,

Do I agree with everything Owens does? No. I don't. Then again I think the things he's done are miniscule in the grand scope of things, and that it's rather absurd and silly that people give him such a hard time. I respect the guy for what he does ON THE FIELD...plain and simple. And I can honestly tell you that you will be hard-pressed to find a player more dedicated to his craft.

The guy talks trash...and he does it with a mixture of flash and amusing arrogance. This was not initially the case, mind you. He first had to become a star, which he did with hard work, dealing with the pressure of following the greatest receiver to ever play the game. The flash factor began with the dallas star incident (not an act I'd typically condone, but being a Niners fan and seeing that against the Cowboys went straight to the heart heh), and I seriously doubt you ever heard about Owens being a disrupting force on the team prior to that incident. After he was suspended by the team, he felt hurt by their actions, particularly aiming his displeasure at Mooch. This left some tension betweeen him and Mooch that probably never healed, but Cowboy, to suggest he was the reason Mooch was fired...that would make zero sense considering the Niners didn't even bother trying to retain him.

From the Star to the Sharpie incident, you rarely heard much about T.O...and even during the rest of the '02 season, it was more or less talk about his TD celebrations. In 2003, when things were not working out well for the team (and when Garcia was struggling quite badly), Owens lashed out...and this is where the negative portrayal starts to emerge, only giving more bad pub to an already-controversial figure. He openly yelled during a blowout loss, and when asked what he felt was the problem, T.O. went straight to it and said that Garcia wasn't doing his part. He even went on to suggest the team would be better off using Rattay (funny enough, he was right about that at the time.) Nevermind his fellow receivers agreeing with the problems Garcia was having...no one wants to hear about that. The problem here is how he does this. The intentions, in my opinion, were founded, but the delivery could've been a lot smoother, and less grating on non-T.O. fans' nerves.

As for the Ravens debacle...well that situation should've never come up in the first place, and he had his heart set on the Eagles. As someone who wanted to go to a team with a proven quarterback, Baltimore was the last place he would want to go to, and the Niners were quick to try and pick up some type of compensation for him. I can't blame a guy for fighting for where he ended up playing, especially if he was all set to become a free agent.

Now we come to this year, where the hype machine is in full force. I mean hell, practically half the stories regarding the first half of the season dealt with T.O. It was absolutely ridiculous how much publicity he was getting, partially because of the team winning and his willingness to take his media role up a notch, indicated by him releasing a book and plugging his website constantly. And talk about a match made in heaven for Philly fans...someone they could identify with and appreciate for his brash persona and style of play. In turn, the lines became more divided in terms of people's opinions of T.O...and obviously you and I stand on opposing sides.

One thing I like to say when I talk about Owens....his role in the sport is assisting in its evolution. He has helped his position evolve, demonstrating that WRs don't have to be just graceful, but punishing and powerful as well. He comes from a generation that embraces flamboyance, and in times like these, that is something people either enjoy or dislike about the modern game...with no real middle road. Regardless, a player who shows that side of a personality becomes a "controversial" figure whether he likes it or not. Its quite understandable for people to dislike the guy for his loud behavior and originality in celebrating, but to suggest T.O. isn't one of, if not the hardest-working wideout in the game is to underestimate his dedication to the game. I don't think a guy who aims to have 2,000 yards receiving in one year should be questioned about his determination and willingness to play every down.
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Last edited by El Jefe; 01-13-2005 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 01-12-2005, 08:49 AM   #45
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Well said, El Jefe. Of course you could have added that T.O. has singlehandedly erased the "overrated" tag that had been stuck to Donovan McNabb ever since he came into the NFL; where the Eagles had never even ranked in the top half of the league in passing offense in any of the four (full) previous years McNabb had started for the team, this year they ranked in the top quarter - seventh to be exact. McNabb also averaged over 7 yards per attempt in 2004 for the first time ever (indeed, his average was over 8 yards) and also completed more than 60 per cent of his passes for the first time (64.0 specifically).

And in the entire 2004 season this horrible "bad boy" T.O. was flagged just once for unsportsmanlike conduct - when he ripped down a highly inflammatory banner in Cleveland after scoring a touchdown.

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