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Old 08-26-2008, 10:51 PM   #106
The Irish
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cat, I know what side of the fence I'm gonna land on when the rapture comes, and why I will land there, and I am okay with that. Do you?
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Old 08-27-2008, 12:37 AM   #107
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I also know where I'll be. Don't be concerned. My spot is secure.
Explaining faith to one without it is like trying to explain color to one who has been blind since birth.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:26 PM   #108
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CK, what catman is talking about is that you quoted and answered Ricky's question, but addressed the post to me
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:31 PM   #109
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CK, what catman is talking about is that you quoted and answered Ricky's question, but addressed the post to me
Oh.... WHOOPS :lol:
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Old 08-30-2008, 08:50 PM   #110
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What if I believe that religion is destructive, and preventing our world from moving to an age of reason?

Religion has been protected from any criticism for too long... As soon as someone criticizes religion, those folks play the "faith" card... "You can't question faith."

Well, a large group of rationalists and humanists have decided that religion is fair game. Just like any other theory, it should be scrutinized thoroughly.

We do ourselves a disservice to give religion a free pass.
Religion isn't a theory in the sense of any others which are "fair game" for criticism. Relgion, which is based on faith and belief, not fact and logic, cannot for that very reason sensibly be criticized with logic. Doing so makes you look rude, arrogant, and silly.

You can believe whatever you want about the advantages and disadvantages of religion. I don't have a problem with your point of view; my problem is with your attitude and the way you express it.

Moreover, your expectation that everyone change their most deeply held principles of faith so that you can live in the world you think best seems a little unreasonable.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:07 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart View Post
Religion isn't a theory in the sense of any others which are "fair game" for criticism. Relgion, which is based on faith and belief, not fact and logic, cannot for that very reason sensibly be criticized with logic. Doing so makes you look rude, arrogant, and silly.

You can believe whatever you want about the advantages and disadvantages of religion. I don't have a problem with your point of view; my problem is with your attitude and the way you express it.

Moreover, your expectation that everyone change their most deeply held principles of faith so that you can live in the world you think best seems a little unreasonable.
Religion is an illusion that the masses need, because it gives meaning to their lives and gives them away around facing the cold realities of life.

I try and use the word masses sparingly because I am not even close to being at the top of the bell curve, but rather than facing the bleak realities of life-- even from just an agnostic point of view-- it's much easier to just condition yourself (or have your parents or others condition you) into believing that life is worth living, you will live after you die, some great, deterministic god is on your side, etc.

Maybe God and J.C. are chilling in heaven, but there's no epistemological way to back it. But, then again, there's no epistemological way to prove that your hand exists either...
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:11 PM   #112
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As I said, you can believe whatever you want and I will never have a problem with it. I just don't like the condesension I always hear in these discussions. And I think your last sentence is the whole point.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:06 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart View Post
Religion isn't a theory in the sense of any others which are "fair game" for criticism. Relgion, which is based on faith and belief, not fact and logic, cannot for that very reason sensibly be criticized with logic. Doing so makes you look rude, arrogant, and silly.
I disagree.

Are you saying that anything based on faith cannot be criticized?

We live in a world where "faith" makes people fly planes into buildings.

Ridiculous beliefs should be called out as such, regardless if they are faith or not.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:17 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart View Post
Religion isn't a theory in the sense of any others which are "fair game" for criticism. Relgion, which is based on faith and belief, not fact and logic, cannot for that very reason sensibly be criticized with logic. Doing so makes you look rude, arrogant, and silly.

You can believe whatever you want about the advantages and disadvantages of religion. I don't have a problem with your point of view; my problem is with your attitude and the way you express it.

Moreover, your expectation that everyone change their most deeply held principles of faith so that you can live in the world you think best seems a little unreasonable.
The problem with this is that religion has often been inserted into the methods in which government and science are designed to govern/advance.

At this juncture, religion becomes a liability in advancing the "religion" of others...which may be science and government.

There's no way you don't know or get this Ricky. You've proven to read/know too much about history. So ya ain't off the hook...

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