Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Collegiate Sports Discussion > College Football

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2005, 03:46 PM   #1
KevinBeane
Sports Virtuoso
 
KevinBeane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Newark DE/Akron OH
Posts: 3,651
KevinBeane is on a distinguished road
Default Weis gets 10 year deal from Our Lady

(You did know that's what "Notre Dame" means in french, right?)

Pete McEntagart's (of SI) brilliant response: "Just imagine if he had started 7-0 like the last guy did!"

You know, I've always hated on Notre Dame anyway, but I don't think I will EVER forgive them for their (man)handling of Tyrone Willingham. Ever.
__________________
SLANT PATTERN
2004 SCMB FANTASY GOLF, NFL POINTSPREAD CHAMPION

"I believe in [a] God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." -Albert Einstein
KevinBeane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2005, 04:19 PM   #2
da12ken
Fast Food Brother #1
 
da12ken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,994
da12ken will become famous soon enough
Default

Yea, I was hoping (still hoping) Weis jilts Notre Dame and becomes an NFL head coach (hoping with Oakland).
__________________
[Seattle Mariners][Oakland Raiders][USC Trojans][Orlando Magic]

Follow all my idiot thoughts from the comfort of your computer.
da12ken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2005, 08:03 PM   #3
boston_aloha
FFB #2
 
boston_aloha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,850
boston_aloha has a spectacular aura aboutboston_aloha has a spectacular aura about
Default

Weiss deserves it... one of the greatest coaching minds of our time. I hope he goes to the NFL too someday, and it is possible. ND is his dream job - but maybe after a few successful years (and a national champ), he will reconsider and set new goals for himself. I think he would be a great NFL coach. That whole "Belichick" team was/is the real deal. I'm looking forward to see what Romeo does in Cleveland in a few years.

Read this article if you think "why Weiss, but not Willingham"

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...hitlock/051101

I didn't care too much for this article, or Whitlock pulling the race card. Who cares about their records: Weiss 5-1 Willingham 8-0. ND was not a top 25 team to start the season, since then, they have been in the top 10. Lets not forget had the reffs not missed the illegal push by Reggie Bush at the end of the ND / USC game, ND would have beat the National Champs who BTW, are pretty much man-handling everyone they play!
__________________
Homer: "All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."

Last edited by boston_aloha; 11-02-2005 at 10:08 PM.
boston_aloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2005, 11:03 PM   #4
Marc
Administrator
 
Marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Posts: 26,478
Marc will become famous soon enough
Default

I like Weiss, but he's not a saint yet, guys. People forget Willingham had similar success early on, then leveled. I think the extension was premature. Let him work out a little more of his initial contract. But I digress, too late now.
__________________
Marc James - SCMB Administrator | Sports Central Managing Editor & Founder
Teams: [Kentucky Wildcats] [Green Bay Packers] [Charlotte Hornets]
Follow on Twitter: @mnjames | @sportcentral
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2005, 11:32 PM   #5
doublee
Sports Virtuoso
 
doublee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 11,138
doublee will become famous soon enoughdoublee will become famous soon enough
Default

Well, as some have pointed out in the media this week the extension is a knee jerk reaction to the NFL being interested in Weis rumors.
__________________
Can I get an Amen from the bobbleheads?
Hey I said pass the ketchup! I'm eatin' salad here!
Oooh, there is so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.
You SU-DIDDILY-UCK Flanders!!
doublee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 02:08 PM   #6
El Jefe
Philosopher of Sport
 
El Jefe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Monica, CA.
Posts: 308
El Jefe is on a distinguished road
Default

Boston_aloha-

First off, no need to complain about the "push". Get over it dude. It's not something a ref will throw a flag for, especially in a situation like that. I've never even seen a flag thrown for that in all my years watching football, and would prefer not to see it either, as it would be a weak, weak penalty to call. Plus, Leinart clearly had forward momentum falling towards the endzone and the push was not the primary reason for him scoring. I can only see a flag being thrown on that if a player is clearly not going forward but when pushed he flies forward.

Second, the race card regarding ND's handling of Weis and Willingham is clearly an issue that deserves to be pointed out. If Notre Dame couldn't see that as a relevant issue that would pop up when they offered Weis the extension, then they're idiots. They're already foolish for how they handled Willingham, and while I have great respect for Charlie Weis, I've lost respect for ND authorities and their hiring practices. Their penchant for bad timing in recent times is just appalling.
__________________
Love to the 49ers, A's, Dodgers, Warriors, Sharks, The Pacific 10(Go Bruins!), Subaru Rally Racing, Ferrari, the WCE, the All Blacks, and the Gunners.
El Jefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 05:08 PM   #7
boston_aloha
FFB #2
 
boston_aloha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,850
boston_aloha has a spectacular aura aboutboston_aloha has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
Boston_aloha-
First off, no need to complain about the "push". Get over it dude. It's not something a ref will throw a flag for, especially in a situation like that. I've never even seen a flag thrown for that in all my years watching football, and would prefer not to see it either, as it would be a weak, weak penalty to call. Plus, Leinart clearly had forward momentum falling towards the endzone and the push was not the primary reason for him scoring. I can only see a flag being thrown on that if a player is clearly not going forward but when pushed he flies forward. .
Dude, I'm not a ND fan, but a rule's a rule.... You are aware that NCAA rules state a player cannot push another player forward right?
If not look here:
http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2004/2004_football_rules.pdf#search='NCAA%20Football%20rules'
Leinart's momentum was NOT getting him in, that's why Reggie Bush had to push him. See Reggie's quote:
"I used all 200 pounds of my body to push Matt in," said Bush, who ran for 160 yards on 15 carries with three touchdowns.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../15/usc.nd.ap/
Reffs blew this game - flag should of been thrown. Bush admits to pushing Leinart which you could see if you watched the game - and according to the NCAA rules, that is illegal - reffs missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
Second, the race card regarding ND's handling of Weis and Willingham is clearly an issue that deserves to be pointed out. .
I'm not gonna buy the "race card" cries. If ND feels they need to secure Charlie Weiss because NFL teams will come calling, then that's fine. I'll beleive that - because last time I checked Ty Willingham was not a "key" part of a team that won 3 of the last 4 superbowls.
__________________
Homer: "All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."

Last edited by boston_aloha; 11-04-2005 at 05:15 PM.
boston_aloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 05:22 PM   #8
El Jefe
Philosopher of Sport
 
El Jefe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Monica, CA.
Posts: 308
El Jefe is on a distinguished road
Default

Watch the play again boston. Leinart was moving towards the goal line. He wasn't going backwards. Did Bush's push help? Sure it did. Any push would help. Did it decide the touchdown? There is no definitive yes on that. If there was, maybe the flag would've been thrown.

Did the refs not make that call, and therefore were wrong? Yes, from the technical sense. I ask again though, when have you seen that kind of play been flagged before? Just because it's technically illegal in the rulebook doesn't mean a ref will call it every single time it happens, or even when it ever happens.

To call sour grapes on that kind of play is silly to me in the end. It was a great end to an incredible game and frankly, every coach on every team would've wanted their player to do what Bush did in that moment in time.

As for your ignorance on the race card stance regarding the double standard practice by Notre Dame, well that's your choice to dismiss it. It's still a relevant issue to how that situation came into play and ignoring it doesn't really help.
__________________
Love to the 49ers, A's, Dodgers, Warriors, Sharks, The Pacific 10(Go Bruins!), Subaru Rally Racing, Ferrari, the WCE, the All Blacks, and the Gunners.

Last edited by El Jefe; 11-04-2005 at 05:28 PM.
El Jefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 05:33 PM   #9
boston_aloha
FFB #2
 
boston_aloha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,850
boston_aloha has a spectacular aura aboutboston_aloha has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
Did Bush's push help? Sure it did.
You said it right there.... Whether it was the deciding factor on the TD, that is irrelevant - rule states you cannot push.
Look at it like a holding call - even if it had nothing to do with the play, a hold's a hold - flag gets thrown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
Did the refs not make that call, and therefore were wrong? Yes, from the technical sense. I ask again though, when have you seen that kind of play been flagged before? Just because it's technically illegal in the rulebook doesn't mean a ref will call it every single time it happens, or even when it ever happens.
What's the point of having a rule if is not going to be enforced? Look, I don't really want to argue this - I look at the 4th & 9 play where ND gave up that 60+ yard play. They had the game and blew that down - so they never should of been in that situation to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
As for your ignorance on the race card stance regarding the double standard practice by Notre Dame, well that's your choice to dismiss it. It's still a relevant issue to how that situation came into play and ignoring it doesn't really help.
Don't call me ignorant because I feel Weiss deserved the contract. I'm not ignoring it - I'm just saying I beleive the reason because it makes sense. Are you saying that NFL teams will not be calling Charlie Weiss this season? Even with this contract - they will still call him. Why is this a racial thing? Explain that to me, tell me why Ty Willingham should of got this deal.
__________________
Homer: "All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."

Last edited by boston_aloha; 11-04-2005 at 05:55 PM.
boston_aloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 06:01 PM   #10
El Jefe
Philosopher of Sport
 
El Jefe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Monica, CA.
Posts: 308
El Jefe is on a distinguished road
Default

I like how you minced my post regarding the push..care to quote the rest of that first little paragraph I wrote or does that not fit into your bubble?

And no, you can't look at it like a holding call since holding is one of the most common, if not the most common foul in all of football. Since you can't tell me when you've ever seen a flag thrown for pushing...then I'll assume you haven't seen it flagged before after I asked you twice if you'd seen a flag thrown for it. After all, you're complaining about it.

What has Weis done in 7 games to prove he's worth the richest contract for ANY college football head coach ever? He's 5-2 with no national championship, yet he deserves a richer contract than Pete Carroll? Even with three superbowl rings as a coordinator, that doesn't warrant such a contract...and last time I checked Tyrone was 8-0 his first season...why not a rich contract for him then after he helped them rise above the ashes, albeit temporarily? I think what Weis has done so far is great, and your point about ND wanting to protect themselves from NFL suitors is valid, but that doesn't excuse the fact they just did a double-standard practice regarding the same position....particularly with the ex-coach being afro-american and the current being white. It also stems from how they mishandled the Willingham firing too. Who's to say Willingham couldn't have done similar things this year with his own recruits and a veteran team?

I don't blame you for dismissing it as basically nothing, which in effect is ignoring the issue, but I don't think it's too hard to see why people are up in arms with what Notre Dame did with the contract, both for how much they gave Weis and the obvious double-standard they just set by doing so...and at least credit it as a valid discussion point.
__________________
Love to the 49ers, A's, Dodgers, Warriors, Sharks, The Pacific 10(Go Bruins!), Subaru Rally Racing, Ferrari, the WCE, the All Blacks, and the Gunners.
El Jefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 06:56 PM   #11
KevinBeane
Sports Virtuoso
 
KevinBeane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Newark DE/Akron OH
Posts: 3,651
KevinBeane is on a distinguished road
Default

Have mixed feelings on this one. As far as the penalty thing, yes, BA's sentiments are coming off like sour grapes. But until they add a stipulation to the rule book that says, "You should call X penalty in certain situations, but not in crucial ones, or not if it happened away from the play," or whatever, then Boston is right. I hate it when announcers say things that amount to, "How dare they make that call in THIS situation?" The rules of football must be very clearly defined in black and white terms, there should be as little wiggle room as possible. If one advocates situational penalty calling, then you're inviting in a gray area, which won't do at all. What's "common sense" to you is not necessarily "common sense" to me.

As far as race goes, do I think racism played a part in Notre Dame's treatment of Weis year one (BTW, it's just one "s," everyone) vs. their treatment of Willingham in year one? Probably not consciously. Is it a fair question? Of course it is. Willingham started 8 and freakin' 0!

Boston doesn't think race played a role, but as is all-too-common, he further seems to think it's NOT a fair question, that it's so absurd it is contemptuous to even CONSIDER it. To people who feel similar to BA, I wonder if it's ever fair to suggest it in any situation not involving the N-Word or cross-burnings. It's so much easier to deny racism exists in 2005 than to deal with it. It's sort of a "Hey, I'M not a racist, no one I know is a racist except for a couple cousins I'm not gonna count because they don't validate my argument..." phenomenon.
__________________
SLANT PATTERN
2004 SCMB FANTASY GOLF, NFL POINTSPREAD CHAMPION

"I believe in [a] God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." -Albert Einstein
KevinBeane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 07:06 PM   #12
boston_aloha
FFB #2
 
boston_aloha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,850
boston_aloha has a spectacular aura aboutboston_aloha has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
And no, you can't look at it like a holding call since holding is one of the most common, if not the most common foul in all of football. Since you can't tell me when you've ever seen a flag thrown for pushing...then I'll assume you haven't seen it flagged before after I asked you twice if you'd seen a flag thrown for it.
I didn't mean to totally chop up your post - I know you mentioned more. I don't usually watch CFB - so there are PLENTY fouls I've never seen. Just because this foul doesn't happen often, doesn't mean there shouldn't be a flag. I have never seen it - there, I answered your question. Answer mine: If flags are never thrown, why is it a rule then - why not change the rule?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
What has Weis done in 7 games to prove he's worth the richest contract for ANY college football head coach ever?
I think that's the question everyone is asking themselves when in fact they shouldn't be. The question should be: What has Weis done in the NFL that justifies ND offering him a huge contract before some NFL team comes by with more $$$?
As for Pete Carrol, please don't get me started - GREAT CFB coach - no question, but what I saw him do with our beloved Pats I don't want to even get into... HORRIBLE NFL coach (but who knows, maybe he'll be better if he gets a 2nd chance), so while Pete may deserve a big contract himself, one could make the argument that only college teams are looking at him (Pete) so you only need to pay him college head coach salary. ND needs to shell out NFL type $$$ because those are the offers Weis receives (and I know he's not the only CFB coach NFL teams are looking at, but I'd say he's the #1 CFB coach that any NFL team would want).
For the record, I thought Ty got the shaft in ND. But I won't fault the college or say its racially bias because Weis is a great coach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Jefe
I don't blame you for dismissing it as basically nothing, but I don't think it's too hard to see why people are up in arms with what Notre Dame did with the contract, both for how much they gave Weis and the obvious double-standard they just set by doing so...and at least credit it as a valid discussion point.
Good point, I guess I wasn't clear - I am not ignoring it, I just had a differant opinion - I can understand why people are up in arms - I'm by no means telling them to "shut-up" or change their opinion.
__________________
Homer: "All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."

Last edited by boston_aloha; 11-04-2005 at 07:14 PM.
boston_aloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 07:08 PM   #13
doublee
Sports Virtuoso
 
doublee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 11,138
doublee will become famous soon enoughdoublee will become famous soon enough
Default

Technically speaking should a penalty have been thrown on that play? Yes. But, as Lou Holtz pointed out after the game it happens on almost every goaline running play and it never gets called. Kind of like if the refs really wanted to they could probably call holding on just about every play if they were enforcing the rule to the letter of the law.
__________________
Can I get an Amen from the bobbleheads?
Hey I said pass the ketchup! I'm eatin' salad here!
Oooh, there is so much I don't know about astrophysics. I wish I had read that book by that wheelchair guy.
You SU-DIDDILY-UCK Flanders!!
doublee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 07:16 PM   #14
boston_aloha
FFB #2
 
boston_aloha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,850
boston_aloha has a spectacular aura aboutboston_aloha has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBeane
Boston doesn't think race played a role, but as is all-too-common, he further seems to think it's NOT a fair question.
When did I say it was not a fair question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBeane
I wonder if it's ever fair to suggest it in any situation not involving the N-Word or cross-burnings.
I not saying it never happens. I just don't think ND said: "Hey, Charlie Weis is white, let's give him a huge contract".

Lets flip this: Instead of me defending Weis and saying why I think this was not a rasist decision, why don't you tell me the reasons you think it was?
__________________
Homer: "All right, brain. You don't like me and I don't like you, but let's just do this and I can get back to killing you with beer."

Last edited by boston_aloha; 11-04-2005 at 07:38 PM.
boston_aloha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 09:03 PM   #15
KevinBeane
Sports Virtuoso
 
KevinBeane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Newark DE/Akron OH
Posts: 3,651
KevinBeane is on a distinguished road
Default

I don't think it was a racially-motivated decision, not consciously. I think it's very possible that sub-consciously, the brass at Notre Dame was less enthralled with Willingham after he started 8-0 than they are with Weis' 5-2 start. If Weis was the one hired four years ago and had the same record as Willingham, I think it's quite likelyhe'd still be there. Weis is easier to for the ND brass to relate them because he's "like" them...he looks like them, thinks like them, etc. Willingham was not only black, but outspoken (for a coach at least) about controversial issues. He was an outsider to the Notre Dame mindset, and it's quite reasonable to think his outsider status, which includes the difference in race, contributed to Willingham not winning the confidence of the Notre Dame brass despite the short tenure and fast start.
__________________
SLANT PATTERN
2004 SCMB FANTASY GOLF, NFL POINTSPREAD CHAMPION

"I believe in [a] God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." -Albert Einstein
KevinBeane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:34 PM.