A Government for the People

[buckeyefan78]

Originally Posted by CKFresh

Yes, it is the most powerful elected office in Amerca.

As for 3rd party success, it's been very lmiited, and mostly on state or local levels.

If you are talking about electoral success, I think anyone here could take the time to look up the limited number of elected third party candidates on the national level.

If you are talking about "success" in terms of influencing elections or policy, then that is an entirely different discussion.

Please Prof. Buck, enlighten this ethnocentric punk

You show glimmers of hope like this and it's only gonna make me work ya over harder.

Now, my next question would be this:

How in the world isn't influencing elections or policy a function of political power worthy enough to constitute your recognition?

I don't wanna cry ethnocentrism again but elected officials and their parties aren't the end all/be all word on political power.

[CKFresh]

How in the world isn't influencing elections or policy a function of political power worthy enough to constitute your recognition?

I didn't say they don't constitue my recognition. My main point has been that I FEEL my vote is better served with the lesser of two evils, since it translate into elected officials.

I don't wanna cry ethnocentrism again but elected officials and their parties aren't the end all/be all word on political power.

Of course not. But they are the MOST powerful.

[buckeyefan78]

Originally Posted by CKFresh

I didn't say they don't constitue my recognition. My main point has been that I FEEL my vote is better served with the lesser of two evils, since it translate into elected officials.



Of course not. But they are the MOST powerful.

I'm not sure the two parties are the most powerful institutions of positive change in this nation. In fact, I'd argue that distinction falls to 3rd parties, private institutions and private individuals.

The 2-party system is in direct competition against the goals of those entities which should constitute the government (the people) in a democracy...representative or parliamentary or whatever.

Power isn't indicative of progress in this sense.

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78

I'm not sure the two parties are the most powerful institutions of positive change in this nation. In fact, I'd argue that distinction falls to 3rd parties, private institutions and private individuals.

The 2-party system is in direct competition against the goals of those entities which should constitute the government (the people) in a democracy...representative or parliamentary or whatever.

Power isn't indicative of progress in this sense.

I would agree with you.

The two major parties ARE the most powerful, but that doesn't mean they are the best institutions for progress.

My contention has always been that one of the parties (Dem) is "less bad" than the other (GOP). That doesn't mean that I like the system.

[buckeyefan78]

If you agree with me why would you empower a party that works against the goals of the people?

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78

If you agree with me why would you empower a party that works against the goals of the people?

Because the other party is even worse. Not voting for the Democrats is voting for the Republicans.

[buckeyefan78]

Originally Posted by CKFresh

Because the other party is even worse. Not voting for the Democrats is voting for the Republicans.

Wow, I see the light now.

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78

Wow, I see the light now.

Buck, we've run around this circle several times...

And every time, you insult me.

Sorry, not everyone sees the world the way you do, that doesn't make me stupid, or ethnocentric.

You don't think that either party is "worse" than the other... I do. Try to see things through someone elses eyes for once.

[buckeyefan78]

Just bustin' balls there CK.

Relax. Don't lose your temper. Learn to be patient.

I'm an expert on said subjects.

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by buckeyefan78

Just bustin' balls there CK.

Relax. Don't lose your temper. Learn to be patient.

I'm an expert on said subjects.

:thumbsup2:

Sorry.

Having said that, I just realized I made an assumption about you without ever asking your actual opinion.

You don't have to say WHICH one, but do you think one party is worse for America than the other?

[Tarkus]

Originally Posted by CKFresh

You don't have to say WHICH one, but do you think one party is worse for America than the other?

To a lot of people, CK, that's like asking which is better for America? The Bloods or the Crips?

Answer...neither cuz they're both for themselves.

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

To a lot of people, CK, that's like asking which is better for America? The Bloods or the Crips?

Answer...neither cuz they're both for themselves.

I understand that.

But I also think there are a lot of the disenchanted voters who dislike both parties, but do see one as worse than the other.

Even using your analogy, one could argue, "the bloods kill more than the crips," or "the crips only sell weed and the bloods sell heroin."

Therefore, one might be "less bad," than the other.

[Tarkus]

But that's a secondary issue...

At the rate you're going by choosing the 'lessor of 2 evils", there'll never be a ghost of a chance for change cuz you're settling for what the Elite are offering.

Besides that, when you choose the lessor, the one you're stuck with is no longer. They are now the worst. Then the cycle continues...

Right now the only change that happens is in political fodder used to entice voters, not change for the people at the forefront. & before you argue it's for the people, look closely at the contradictions across the board for each party before you get the wool pulled over your eyes on an issue here or there like Heath Care.

[buckeyefan78]

Originally Posted by CKFresh

:thumbsup2:

Sorry.

Having said that, I just realized I made an assumption about you without ever asking your actual opinion.

You don't have to say WHICH one, but do you think one party is worse for America than the other?

The one with rich people in it.

(That's one f-uckin' good answer if I do say so myself )

[CKFresh]

Originally Posted by Tarkus

But that's a secondary issue...

At the rate you're going by choosing the 'lessor of 2 evils", there'll never be a ghost of a chance for change cuz you're settling for what the Elite are offering.

What are my other options? Not voting, or voting for someone who can't win. Either way, nothing changes.

Besides that, when you choose the lessor, the one you're stuck with is no longer. They are now the worst. Then the cycle continues...

I'm not sure if that is necessarily true - it is probably true, but not definitely true.

I still believe that the system can be changed little by little. In my view, Barack Obama is better than George W. Bush. If he is elected, and people see a little change, maybe they will elect somebody better than him - and so on.

Call me naive, I know you will, but I don't think that is such a far fetched idea.

Right now the only change that happens is in political fodder used to entice voters, not change for the people at the forefront. & before you argue it's for the people, look closely at the contradictions across the board for each party before you get the wool pulled over your eyes on an issue here or there like Heath Care.

So what is your solution?

Secondly I would ask - do you think any president, or senator, or any elected person - has ever done anything to improve the lives of Americans?