Go Back   Sports Central Message Boards > Community Discussion > The Lounge > Politics & Religion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2007, 02:14 PM   #166
CKFresh
Most Hated Member
 
CKFresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 7,377
CKFresh will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cure View Post
I believe that cuts to the heart of this debate... I don't think it's any of the governments damn business what we choose or don't choose to do. I guess I would ask why that doesn't bother you?

And consider this: If you have nothing to hide, would you mind the Government coming to your house and rooting through you desk and filing cabinets?... what about the medicine cabinet?... perhaps reading your diary?

Something to think about.
...or how about your porn collect...
__________________
Do yourself a favor, become your own savior.

Think Fresh.
CKFresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2007, 02:32 PM   #167
BigBuddhaPup
Steelers lovin' canine
 
BigBuddhaPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 584
BigBuddhaPup is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKFresh View Post
...or how about your porn collect...

All I have are these pictures that Cure sent to me .... I mean... what porn?...I don't have any porn... Just say no to porn:thumbup:
__________________
Namaste,
BigBuddhaPup

:thumbup: Go Steelers....
"So it goes"
BigBuddhaPup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2007, 03:07 PM   #168
Cure
Agnostic Cards fan
 
Cure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Show-Me State
Posts: 116
Cure is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBuddhaPup View Post
All I have are these pictures that Cure sent to me .... I mean... what porn?...I don't have any porn... Just say no to porn:thumbup:

Shhhhhh...... You never know who is listening.:uhoh:
__________________
"Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time" -george carlin
Cure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2007, 03:41 PM   #169
Montrovant
Hatecarver
 
Montrovant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 685
Montrovant is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
My logic is not flawed, Fresh. That would be yours. You ask silly questions that are not germaine to the topic at hand and expect me to take them seriously? What would you have said if I had said I was for genocide in the Sudan?
Sorry Fresh. Either ask questions that pertain to the topic or expect ridicule from me.
As I have said, the Government can read all of my mail, e-mails and listen in on all of my phone conversations if they have nothing better to do. I have nothing to hide, therefore nothing to fear.
The problem here catman, is you seem to assume that having government (or anyone else, for that matter) look through your personal things is just a matter of fear of prosecution; that if you have done nothing criminal, it's fine for the government to go through your private life however they want. Many of us are not ok with that. I have done nothing wrong, no one has any business in my private affairs. I DON'T want the government in my mail, e-mail or phone calls. Not because they are criminal, but because they are private.

Further, it can be seen as just one step in a process of intrusion. Today they go through your private life in the name of stopping terrorism. Tomorrow it's all crime. The next day it's to make sure you aren't doing anything 'immoral'.

I understand that beurocracy can get in the way of law enforcement. There are probably many ways things could be expedited, without giving government/law enforcement free reign to dig into people's lives whenever they see fit. I think that's what most people are concerned with; while it may not be 1984 here, the idea that we may be headed that direction is a worrisome one.

Unless you're somehow connected to criminal activity catman, and a warrant or whatever appropriate authorization is issued, looking through your mail/email/phone calls would be unreasonable searching.
Montrovant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 09:22 AM   #170
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,325
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

Gentlemen, in the electronic age, it is very easy to intercept and read all of our correspondence without our knowledge. Key words are flagged and when those flags are triggered, the correspondence is read -- sort of like an individual tax form. Certain percentages for deductions are expected and anything that falls significantly above those parameters triggers a physical audit of the form. If a person has proper documentation for his/her deductions, there is no real problem, just an inconvenience of meeting with the IRS agent (yes I have experience with these and was cleared of any wrong-doing because of my documentation).
I'll ask you a question, Montrovant. How would a person become suspected of "criminal activity" to require a warrant?
The 4th Ammendment to the Constitution gives us protection against "unreasonable" searches. Define "unreasonable".
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 09:37 AM   #171
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,325
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

And, by the way Montrovant, it is bureaucracy. Just nitpicking.
Fresh, you are free to hold any opinion on any subject that you feel is right. I have absolutely no problem with this. Feel free to carry on with your opinions -- whatever gets you through the day.
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 05:34 PM   #172
Jaguar Rick
rick in nc
 
Jaguar Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Georgia & North Carolina
Posts: 343
Jaguar Rick is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
And, by the way Montrovant, it is bureaucracy. Just nitpicking.
Fresh, you are free to hold any opinion on any subject that you feel is right. I have absolutely no problem with this. Feel free to carry on with your opinions -- whatever gets you through the day.
Anybody who thinks the government looking into you personal matters is ok are those who possess the same politics at the government in power. Unless you forgot, the FBI spied on people in the 70s and Nixon had "his people" have the IRS audit them, attempted to have them blackballed, and other various and sundry things. I wouldn't want an administration that I oppose finding things about me they don't like, and then harassing me. The Patriot Act is WRONG, spying is WRONG. If someone has done something illegal, arrest them and prosecute them in a court of law. Warrantless eavesdropping, spying, etc., can only lead to abuses of power. It is also illegal, whether it's done by the local sheriff, or the President.
__________________
If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him?
Jaguar Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2007, 10:44 PM   #173
Montrovant
Hatecarver
 
Montrovant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 685
Montrovant is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Gentlemen, in the electronic age, it is very easy to intercept and read all of our correspondence without our knowledge. Key words are flagged and when those flags are triggered, the correspondence is read -- sort of like an individual tax form. Certain percentages for deductions are expected and anything that falls significantly above those parameters triggers a physical audit of the form. If a person has proper documentation for his/her deductions, there is no real problem, just an inconvenience of meeting with the IRS agent (yes I have experience with these and was cleared of any wrong-doing because of my documentation).
I'll ask you a question, Montrovant. How would a person become suspected of "criminal activity" to require a warrant?
The 4th Ammendment to the Constitution gives us protection against "unreasonable" searches. Define "unreasonable".
Hard to answer this, as it would change on a case by case basis. Different situations. It's not really up to me to define anyway, I would assume that's for the judiciary to decide. However, I would say that warrantless searches of my mail would be unreasonable, to give an example. Barring extenuating circumstances, of course (I send a package that steadily ticks or something ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
And, by the way Montrovant, it is bureaucracy. Just nitpicking.
Thanks That's one of my 'bad' words....the right spelling always seems to avoid me!
Montrovant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 02:58 PM   #174
RavenPoe
All-Star Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 342
RavenPoe is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cure View Post
I believe that cuts to the heart of this debate... I don't think it's any of the governments damn business what we choose or don't choose to do. I guess I would ask why that doesn't bother you?

And consider this: If you have nothing to hide, would you mind the Government coming to your house and rooting through you desk and filing cabinets?... what about the medicine cabinet?... perhaps reading your diary?

Something to think about.
Catman may have nothing to hide. Mensa types are usually really that boring. "I'm a member of mensa." I'm smarter than you." "Nah nah nah nah nah!" But somehow we're the ones who look foolish?
__________________
-
-
It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them! - Nietzsche
RavenPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 07:16 PM   #175
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,325
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

That is correct, RavenPoe. You are the ones that look foolish. I do not enter into a discussion without first researching the topic thouroughly and coming up with an informed opinion on the subject.
I have never said that I approve of Government intervention into my private life, nor will I. I have only said that I have nothing to hide, nor do I have anything to fear. If the Government wishes to waste their time reading my mail, etc, they may feel free to do so. I doubt seriously if they would find anything of interest, and would discontinue the activity quickly.
I agree that warrantless searches of my mail would be incorrect, but if they wish to read through the junk-mail I receive daily, they can.
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 07:17 PM   #176
catman
Humble MLB Moderator
 
catman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 9,325
catman will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar Rick View Post
Anybody who thinks the government looking into you personal matters is ok are those who possess the same politics at the government in power. Unless you forgot, the FBI spied on people in the 70s and Nixon had "his people" have the IRS audit them, attempted to have them blackballed, and other various and sundry things. I wouldn't want an administration that I oppose finding things about me they don't like, and then harassing me. The Patriot Act is WRONG, spying is WRONG. If someone has done something illegal, arrest them and prosecute them in a court of law. Warrantless eavesdropping, spying, etc., can only lead to abuses of power. It is also illegal, whether it's done by the local sheriff, or the President.
Spying is wrong? Interesting thought, Rick. I guess the CIA and NSA should just close their doors then.
Rick, I was a Democrat when Nixon was in office. I didn't like him very much.
__________________
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans...." John Lennon

Catman
Rest in Peace, Buck. You were truly a giant among men.
catman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 04:49 AM   #177
Montrovant
Hatecarver
 
Montrovant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tampa
Posts: 685
Montrovant is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I agree that warrantless searches of my mail would be incorrect, but if they wish to read through the junk-mail I receive daily, they can.
I'd rather have them read and then throw away the junk mail, so I don't have to deal with it :lol:
Montrovant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 02:35 PM   #178
BigBuddhaPup
Steelers lovin' canine
 
BigBuddhaPup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 584
BigBuddhaPup is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
That is correct, RavenPoe. You are the ones that look foolish. I do not enter into a discussion without first researching the topic thouroughly and coming up with an informed opinion on the subject.
I have never said that I approve of Government intervention into my private life, nor will I. I have only said that I have nothing to hide, nor do I have anything to fear. If the Government wishes to waste their time reading my mail, etc, they may feel free to do so. I doubt seriously if they would find anything of interest, and would discontinue the activity quickly.
I agree that warrantless searches of my mail would be incorrect, but if they wish to read through the junk-mail I receive daily, they can.

That is the point... there has to be checks and balances when it comes to law enforcement, whether that be arresting someone, detaining someone, imprisonment, spying, etc... we can't skip integral parts of the process, it leads to bastardization of our system and our freedoms... it is quickly becoming a corrupt process that needs to recified with the proper checks and balances... we can still go after the bad guys, we simply need reasons why to do so, and we need to follow our country's laws... judical oversight is proper balance for this... even now GW is waffling on the FISA court, but he has to because our congress is putting his feet to the fire...:redhot:
__________________
Namaste,
BigBuddhaPup

:thumbup: Go Steelers....
"So it goes"

Last edited by BigBuddhaPup; 01-22-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: typos
BigBuddhaPup is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The NBA Bad Boy? Artest in trouble again Marc National Basketball Association 12 02-28-2003 07:50 AM
Karl shown in bad light again... buckeyefan78 National Basketball Association 7 02-25-2003 12:04 PM
Bad Bad Weather Here in Alabama and Tennessee bama4256 The Lounge 4 11-13-2002 04:29 PM
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly of Professsional Baseball bama4256 Major League Baseball 11 05-10-2002 01:41 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:56 PM.