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Old 01-20-2005, 11:58 PM   #16
Shawndo
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I just wanted to add that I think MLKjr Day is arguably the most important holiday we have. The simple message of Dr. King is something everyone on the planet needs to embrace, that is, if we don't want to blow ourselves up
(I know his message was mostly targeted to racism in America, but the principle is universally applicable)
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shawndo
I just wanted to add that I think MLKjr Day is arguably the most important holiday we have.


I would like to thank James Earl Ray for allowing us to have this day off.

http://crimemagazine.com/Assassinations/james.htm

Last edited by MaddEnemy; 01-21-2005 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:02 AM   #18
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I know the remark above pissed some people off but IMO celebrating his birthday is bull crap.

Can someone honestly tell me he wasn't racist?
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:45 AM   #19
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Yea, I agree the above statement was "over the top" but luckily I don't get pissed about opinions as a rule. However I would expect some to take great offense at the callous tone of it. :uhoh:

On your question, I'd just say considering the topic & times back then that I never found him to be racist. Celebrating MLK Day is larger than the Man himself & more about the message. If the only message you got was one of a racist, all I can say is I hope you enjoyed your "day off".

I'd rather not argue about it.....
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Old 01-21-2005, 11:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tarkus
Celebrating MLK Day is larger than the Man himself & more about the message. If the only message you got was one of a racist

I'd rather not argue about it.....


The day is about MLK, about what he stood for but also who he was.

Being racist was not the only message I got but MLK as a man shouldn't be over looked when making a holiday after him but I guess like Randy Moss if you are great at what you do your other characteristics can be over looked no matter how distasteful they are. Like in war, the victor writes the history books so we are taught how great of a man he was and nothing more.

MLK's views are sometimes used to denounce quoata's and may be denounced as being racist.

I don't know the man but every story has a different version, I am just pointing out that we should look at all sides.

If Hitler won the war the history books would tell a different story about how great he was, we know it just depends who is telling the story. I am not comparing MLK to Hitler but pointing out that we are taught about MLK with words that are meant to make him a hero and nothing else.

Last edited by MaddEnemy; 01-21-2005 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 01-21-2005, 12:18 PM   #21
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But Madd, you're not saying he MIGHT BE a racist, but that he WAS one. What is your evidence? Can you give me one single racist quote from him? Just one? Or do you feel that the things he campaigned for, like desegregation, were anti-white?
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:36 PM   #22
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I just threw up in my mouth.

Please, ME, please tell me you're just rabble-rousing. Please.

I think I may have reason now to visit Jacksonville aside from a Steelers appearance in the Super Bowl....

Dave
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:52 PM   #23
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Quote:
Can someone honestly tell me he wasn't racist?
Yes.
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Old 01-21-2005, 01:53 PM   #24
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Yeah...the more I think about it, the more I'm embarrassed I even dignified your claims with a question/response. Between this and calling Randy Moss the N-word, it's pretty clear who the racist is.
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Old 01-21-2005, 03:17 PM   #25
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Aside from marching with, but always firmly in his OWN opinion, with the more militant Stokey Carmichael, I don't see much evidence that King was a racist considering the times ( King only muttered the more controversial word 'black' instead of 'negro' on a few occassions). The most I've ever seen people throw out to damage the guy was his skirt chasing ( which was true), borrowing of a disputed number of phrases from others for his own speeches, and beatings of women ( which can't be proven and have little evidence to support).

I've thumb threw some anti-King literature in my time, and have found many errors in text to numerous to mention ( once read an anti-King document that qutoed LBJ as calling King a " hypocrite preacher" when in fact LBJ called him a " hypocrite ni%%er preacher." An obvious attempt not to indict LBJ as a racist ( which is another thread) was the motivation here, IMO.

Simply put, MOSTLY anyone trying to downgrade King as being a racist, is doing so with little to no evidence widely accepted by historians, even the ones with conspiracy minds.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
But Madd, you're not saying he MIGHT BE a racist, but that he WAS one. What is your evidence? Can you give me one single racist quote from him? Just one? Or do you feel that the things he campaigned for, like desegregation, were anti-white?
Quote:
it's pretty clear who the racist is.

Quote:
I just threw up in my mouth.

Please, ME, please tell me you're just rabble-rousing. Please.

I think I may have reason now to visit Jacksonville aside from a Steelers appearance in the Super Bowl....

Dave
Look at you guys! Where did I say he was racist? I only suggested another viewpoint that he might have been, my comments as harsh as they may be were meant to further the conversation and to look at all angles and not just from what we are taught

I said, "I don't know the man but every story has a different version, I am just pointing out that we should look at all sides."


“Being racist was not the only message I got” this I should have worded differently.

One of my points here is many people go down in history as great and we think of them as so, but further investigation into their life sometimes show a darker side we were not told about. As Buckeye said, " The most I've ever seen people throw out to damage the guy was his skirt chasing ( which was true), borrowing of a disputed number of phrases from others for his own speeches, and beatings of women ( which can't be proven and have little evidence to support)." I wasn't taught this in school and I am sure CNN didn't bring it up on MLK day. America and the world want to believe MLK was perfect and will portray him as so.


What does this mean, "I think I may have reason now to visit Jacksonville aside from a Steelers appearance in the Super Bowl...." What would that reason be sir?

Last edited by MaddEnemy; 01-21-2005 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:38 PM   #27
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You also wrote:
Quote:
MLK's views... may be denounced as racist.

In what f'ing corners!!

Listen, no one accused MLK of being a saint.

What he did in his private life, to an incredibly large degree, is inconsequential.

What he did for civil rights, what he did for America, is something that ought to be celebrated. He didn't kill anyone. He never advocated such actions.

Suggestions of racism that are targeted at MLK are ludicrous, hysterical, and invented. Period.

And, KB's right. Only someone with an ax to grind on the subject would make such a suggestion.

May I also point out that included with KB's reminder of your use of the word "n****r" toward Randy Moss, you posted a picture of a swastika. You're skirting mighty dangerous territory, and for my part, I think you've gone beyond the realm of thoughtful debate and are treading quite close to community guidelines violations.

I suspect that if you like, when President's Day rolls around, you can trash that celebration, too, by intimating that we oughtn't celebrate a president who might have been <gasp!> gay!

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Old 01-21-2005, 04:45 PM   #28
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Yeah, you are right Dave.

I will now bow out of the website. You, Beane or whoever will not have to read another post by ME.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:57 PM   #29
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Quote:
Look at you guys! Where did I say he was racist? I only suggested another viewpoint that he might have been, my comments as harsh as they may be were meant to further the conversation and to look at all angles and not just from what we are taught
I could buy this if you didn't start with...

Quote:
celebrating his birthday is bull crap.

Can someone honestly tell me he wasn't racist?
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Old 01-21-2005, 06:46 PM   #30
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Adding on to his faults, now that I've been thinking all afternoon, I do believe that some reputable historians have gathered enough info to conclude he cheated ( plagarized) in college, while not being able to fully embrace the idea that he plagarized large parts of some of his speeches.

Again though, who cares? My wife ( gift from the English gods) proof read and helped me finalize every draft of all my history papers in college.

You guys have seen my spelling and grammar.
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